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  #361  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nygirl1 View Post
Why not get the petition over to Hines' people or Nouvel to show support. Couldn't they do something with it?
That's a good idea.
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  #362  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
I suggest we need to get a in-person petition going with actual signatures (and not electronic ones). We can setup tempory stations at in various locations in and around CB5/Midtown.

We must have material printed to show passersby and then ask if they will support this tower.
Set up outside or near the Museum of Modern Art. Get the people to sign. It won't hurt to show support, especially since its a side never heard from. I'm not convinced we're at a crisis, but this can only help. It also builds more publicity for this tower. Landmarks won't be the problem you think it will be. The most harm would come at the hands of the City Council.
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  #363  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 11:36 AM
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Get the folks over at the City Review to help support...

http://thecityreview.com/nouvel.html

Boldness at Last on West 53rd Street
Jean Nouvel Designs Mixed-Use Tower for Hines
Another expansion for MOMA



_

By Carter B. Horsley

The Museum of Modern Art 's architectural history has been steeped in sleek, elegant modernity but its last couple of major expansions have been widely seen as rather bland and not in the forefront of contemporary architecture.

On November 14, 2007, Hines, the Houston-based development concern headed by Gerald D. Hines, announced that Jean Nouvel had designed a 75-story tower for it that will combine an expansion for the Museum of Modern Art in its base, a 100-room "seven-star" hotel and 120 high-end residential condominium apartments. Hines had acquired the small plot of about 17,000 square feet at 53 West 53rd Street in January, 2007 for about $125 million. The L-shaped plot runs through the block to 54th Street where it is just to the west of the American Museum of Folk Art.

Nouvel's design is quite breathtaking, bold and a bit bizarre. It is definitely not in context, which is not necessarily bad.

Is it a deconstructed obelisk? Is it a hanger for a an ungainly spacecraft designed for a landing on Pluto? Is it a prickly 21st Century urban thorn?

It does not conform to any known building style and that's just what New York City needs more of.

A completely asymmetrical design, it has no traditional setbacks and tapers to a point.


The press release did not indicate the building's height in feet and commentators on the Internet were euphoric about the design and especially about its height that some suggested was as tall as the Chrysler Building, which apparently was based on a drawing published the day before in The New York Times in a rave review by its architecture critic, Nicolai Ouroussoff.

The renderings published in The New York Times and others that could be found on the Internet the next day, and reproduced below, added to the intial confusion as some indicated that the building would have an open crown and the more finished renderings indicated an enclosed, sharply angled top. The source of many of the renderings is www.dezeen.com.



The announcement indicated that the "project will likely commence pre-sales in late 2008.

Gerald D. Hines, the chairman of Hines, said that "Nouvel's exciting concept has the potential to become an international architectural design icon."

Nouvel designed the residential condominium project nearing completion at 40 Mercer Street in SoHo for Hines and Andre Balasz. The initial renderings for the project indicated its facade would have some bright red and bright blue windows, but the overall color of the project is something like a bland battleship gray. The project, of course, is notable for its huge windows that slide up and down and a strong Lever House-like modernity whose rectilinearity is not out of place in SoHo.

Far more exciting is Nouvel's design for 100 Eleventh Avenue, a residential condominium tower now under construction in Chelsea that is notable for its very faceted fenestration, as shown above. It is directly across from Frank O. Gehry's headquarters building for IAC and the juxtaposition is one of the city's choicest. It is being developed by Alf Naman and Cape Advisors.

Both 40 Mercer and 100 Eleventh Avenue have relatively conventional forms in sharp contrast to 53 West 53rd Street whose angularity far outstrips Sir Norman Foster's Hearst Building tower a few blocks away on the southwest corner of Eighth Avenue and 57th Street.

The announcement stated that "Nouvel's design maximizes the site while considering the city's zoning envelope," adding that its "unique silhouette tapers as it rises to a distinctive spire" and that "its steel and glass façade reveals the diagrid structural design."

The color rendering released with the announcement indicated that the building will have a very complex façade with many diagonal braces, a design that one surfer at skyscraper.com likened to the "the Chicago Hancock Center after being beaten by a blacksmith, hammered and stretched to fit into its site."

In a review of the new Nouvel tower, architecture critic Nicolai Ouroussoff wrote in the November 15, 2007 edition of The New York Times that it promises to be the most exhilarating addition to the skyline in a generation," adding that "Its faceted exterior, tapering to a series of crystalline peaks, suggests an atavistic preoccupation with celestial heights. It brings to mind John Ruskin's praise for the irrationality of Gothic architecture: "It not only dared, but delighted in, the infringement of every servile principle."

Noting that the new tower's facade have "a taut, muscular look," Mr. Ouroussoff maintained that the tower's "contorted forms are a scream for freedom." He also noted that "The top-floor apartment is arranged around such a massive elevator core that its inhabitants will feel pressed up against the glass exterior walls. (Mr. Nouvel compared the apartment to the pied-à-terre at the top of the Eiffel Tower from which Gustave Eiffel used to survey his handiwork below.)"

The comparison to the Eiffel Tower may be apt for Nouvel's tower is sculpted structure whose aesthetic is based in large part on its engineering. Unfortunately, it does not stand alone like the Eiffel Tower but it is likely to become a signature element of the midtown skyline.

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  #364  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 2:10 PM
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It's such an obvious masterpiece in the offing, I just can't imagine the reasoning behind opposition to it.
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  #365  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CoolCzech View Post
It's such an obvious masterpiece in the offing, I just can't imagine the reasoning behind opposition to it.
Exactly the reason why we need to unite and fight against these people. I can't sit back and let another great project fall because of the ignorant thinking of these NIMBY's. Especially this one being that it has potential of being an international icon.
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  #366  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 8:07 PM
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I want this to be built so badly. Is there some official I can email?
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  #367  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 8:08 PM
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So, is this thing close to cancellation ?
     
     
  #368  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 8:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Zerton View Post
I want this to be built so badly. Is there some official I can email?
I'm trying to look into that as I'm typing this. Have you signed the petition yet?
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  #369  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 8:13 PM
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Can someone please post the petition link in the 'City Discussion sub-forum'? Possibly start a thread about it. Our fight to keep this alive shouldn't be restricted to just us New Yorkers. If everyone who is active on this site signed, we'd have a good force in addition to the outside support.
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  #370  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 9:07 PM
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Lost on the NIMBYS is the fact that this tower, while tall, isn't really large at all.
We're not talking some west side gargantuan office building.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...j8c&refer=muse

Nouvel's Super-Tall MoMA Tower Represents Ode to Zoning Abuse

Review by James S. Russell

Architect Jean Nouvel has designed an implausibly thin obelisk that would rise
in crooked facets almost as high as the Empire State Building.

Thank New York zoning laws for this chic behemoth, which could cast some
of Midtown's most prized and densely built blocks into darkness.

Its 1,200-foot (365-meter) height would cast MoMA's sculpture garden into almost perpetual shadow.
Perhaps that's fitting, since MoMA sold the 17,000 square foot lot to developer Hines for $125 million
a year ago. The deal allows the museum to add 50,000 square feet spread over three levels of the new building.

The real art in this deal, however, is the zoning. When MoMA Director
Glen Lowry started talking up the sale, he said the site would support a development
of about 210,000 square feet. Although much about the mix and final size of the building is still being worked out, a size greater than 500,000 square feet is bandied about.


How does Hines do it? Company officials wouldn't explain except to say that
the buildable square footage already has been legally established. Exactly how it's done
won't be publicly known until Houston-based Hines files for a required special permit, which it
intends to do early this year.

The building's height is mainly accomplished by a zoning device called transfer of development rights. This allows unbuilt space to be moved from above nearby landmark structures to Hines's site.

The zoning protects some daylight at the street frontages by requiring setbacks as the tower rises.
In stacking some 120 condos in 53 floors atop the hotel, Nouvel bends and facets the surfaces
to keep within the ever-narrowing, legally buildable envelope.

For me, the trouble with Nouvel's design is not so much its great height --
those skinny high floors won't block many views or much light -- but the thick, looming, lower floors.
And for comparison, there are other large midblock residential towers...




This tower by comparison




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  #371  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 9:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aluminum View Post
So, is this thing close to cancellation ?

Yes.
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  #372  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 9:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerton View Post
I want this to be built so badly. Is there some official I can email?

In addition to Stern's petition, send a message to the LPC:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/html/contact/email.shtml

Also, contact Amanda Burden at City Planning:
http://nyc.gov/html/mail/html/maildcp.html

You can also contact Hines for support, they've had experience dealing with the LPC:
http://www.hines.com/contact/offices/east.aspx

Quote:
40 Mercer is an extraordinary testament to progressive architecture and ingenious engineering. This stunning, 15-story block-long new building offers magnificent glass curtain walls with a rhythm of clear glass panes intermixed with hues of red and blue.

A building unanimously approved by the city's Landmarks Preservation Commission in what the New York Times called "a decision of breathtaking importance for the future of New York."
That would be an understatement here.
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  #373  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Yes.
Shit ! I feel like killing all the NIMBYs in NYC.
     
     
  #374  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2008, 2:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aluminum View Post
Shit ! I feel like killing all the NIMBYs in NYC.
I think he's being sarcastic.....
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  #375  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2008, 3:24 AM
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Yes, he was being sarcastic. It is not close to being cancelled. It's just a long way from approval, hence the solicitation for support.
     
     
  #376  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2008, 9:09 AM
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This is a flowchart of the ULURP approval process (in pdf): http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/luproc/lur.pdf

Just goes to show how complicated it can get and that's not even involving the special circumstance in this particular case where Landmarks gets involved because the air rights are from two landmarked properties.
     
     
  #377  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2008, 9:14 AM
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I posted this over at WNY but thought you guys might be interested nonetheless:

Quote:
I think once we are able to get in touch with someone working for the developer, we will then know exactly where the application process is going next and what is involved in order to get all the approvals.

In the meantime, Stroika and Optimus Prime is doing exactly what we need to do: come up with answers to the issues raised by CB5.

First off, the midblock claim: there is this misconception that this site is smack dab in the middle of the block but that is just not the case at all. While it might not front Sixth Ave., it is only one building (the boxy black glass Financial Times building) over from Sixth Ave:



As you can see, where the Museum Tower (a residential built years ago) would be more midblock than this Nouvel site (yellow) would be. The Nouvel tower would just be a few yards from Sixth Ave.

The air and light concern: most of this tower's lower half would not cast any more shadows than there already exists from the other large towers to the west and south of the site. You can see them in the image above.

The upper half of the tower grows slimmer very fast as it rises, so the shadows it casts gets less and less pronounce until the top where it's almost insignificant because of its thinness.

Furthermore, because Nouvel designed it in such a way, most of the bulk is distributed in a North-South direction, not East-West, so this further slims down whatever shadows it may cast.

On top of that, if this tower is not allowed to transfer the air rights from the landmarked properties, eventually those air rights would still have to go somewhere else on the block, making it inevitable that another project, which possibly could be designed to be bulkier and thus casting shadows anyway. (did I make myself clear enough to be understood?)

This also applies to the fears of added traffic. Since those air rights are a fixed amount, whether it gets transferred here or not, it will eventually be used somewhere on the same block and the same amount of space would create the same amount of traffic. Again, did I confused anyone?
     
     
  #378  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2008, 3:04 PM
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Good points, antinimby.

I would like to add that the "lowrise neighborhood" does appear to exist-BUT it is several blocks north of the site. In any case, there are other tall buildings closer to this neighborhood than the proposed tower, such as the L-shaped building directly north of the site in Antinimby's picture. This building is much wider than the MOMA tower will be and already casts a shadow that is bigger than the one from the MOMA tower.

As for the complaints about overshadowing the sculpture garden?
Since it is in a north facing courtyard, it already is mostly shadowed except at noon- a situation the new tower won't change. Besides, as far I can remember, it's not the museum complaining about the shadows, but the NIMBYs looking for another weak excuse.
     
     
  #379  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2008, 6:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scalziand View Post
As for the complaints about overshadowing the sculpture garden?
Since it is in a north facing courtyard, it already is mostly shadowed except at noon- a situation the new tower won't change. Besides, as far I can remember, it's not the museum complaining about the shadows, but the NIMBYs looking for another weak excuse.
Yep, it's the museum's own garden - if shadows were such a big issue, the museum wouldn't be shooting itself in the foot by building that tower. Imagine if your neighbors complained about you building a barn on your land since it would cast shadows on your own backyard.
     
     
  #380  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2008, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Lecom View Post
Yep, it's the museum's own garden - if shadows were such a big issue, the museum wouldn't be shooting itself in the foot by building that tower. Imagine if your neighbors complained about you building a barn on your land since it would cast shadows on your own backyard.
It's just more NIMBY absurdity. I'm sure they haven't even seen any shadow studies. But just how many streets would be thrown into "darkness" by this tower...



It's the height that draws their concern - not the size of the building which would be possible with the transfer. They see 75 stories, and immediately go into a frenzy, without considering what it translates to in reality.
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