Rural Commuter Rail

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I am not sure what you are referring to but I believe we are talking about the Beachburg subdivision here. The track crosses into Quebec just this side of Arnprior and then crosses back near Portage du Fort and then travels through Beachburg and into Pembroke. The other line that used to go to Eganville and beyond has been abandoned beyond the east edge of Arnprior.

Oh, I got mixed up. I always thought Beachburg Sub went through Arnprior and (formerly) Renfrew.

Who owns the abandoned rail ROW's surrounding Ottawa - namely those going southwest to Carleton Place, south to Kemptville and southeast to Embrun?

[Dado]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Oh, I got mixed up. I always thought Beachburg Sub went through Arnprior and (formerly) Renfrew.

That's the Renfrew Sub.

Who owns the abandoned rail ROW's surrounding Ottawa - namely those going southwest to Carleton Place,

City of Ottawa to the Carleton Place town line; after that it's owned by the Town of Carleton Place and they've even planted a road on it.

south to Kemptville

City of Ottawa as far as Hwy 416; MTO owns the crossing of Hwy 416 (a major PITA); CPR probably owns everything south of there through Kemptville to the end of the track, after which of course they do own it.

and southeast to Embrun?

That's formerly the Ottawa & New York. CN acquired the line but who owns what now is a good question. Parts of it look to be owned by the MTO, for example.

There's one more corridor - the former CPR M&O heading east through Navan. It's my understanding that VIA owns this, though for how far I don't know since it's considerably less useful as an HSR RoW beyond Bourget.

[eternallyme]

City of Ottawa to the Carleton Place town line; after that it's owned by the Town of Carleton Place and they've even planted a road on it.

At least there is plenty of room to plant a single rail line there as far as the OVR line. A junction turning north is definitely doable, a junction turning south would be very difficult.

City of Ottawa as far as Hwy 416; MTO owns the crossing of Hwy 416 (a major PITA); CPR probably owns everything south of there through Kemptville to the end of the track, after which of course they do own it.

New grade separations would definitely be needed, at least at 416 and probably at County Road 43. At least the commercial development plan there kept the corridor open. IMO, the City of Ottawa (or joint Ottawa/North Grenville) should own it as far as the Bedell Road junction.

That's formerly the Ottawa & New York. CN acquired the line but who owns what now is a good question. Parts of it look to be owned by the MTO, for example.

I'm not sure either, as it has been long abandoned. The corridor seems fairly intact though so it wouldn't be difficult to lay a single track there.

There's one more corridor - the former CPR M&O heading east through Navan. It's my understanding that VIA owns this, though for how far I don't know since it's considerably less useful as an HSR RoW beyond Bourget.

IMO, that corridor from Navan to Bourget doesn't serve any real use for anything. However, it could provide alternate service to Navan and southern Orleans, and then hook back up towards Rockland and County Road 17 communities - even though unlike with the other areas, a whole new ROW would be needed - the only such corridor that requires such.

[waterloowarrior]

I looked up the Ottawa & New York corridor near Edwards in the assessment rolls once and IIRC it was owned by Bell Canada (although maybe it's actually only leased by them?)

[Dado]

It looks like you're correct, based on this recent posting by David Jeanes:

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/grou.../message/57765

CN only really acquired it for its rails and short sections of the corridor in Ottawa and Cornwall; they were probably quite happy to sell it off to others.

Parts of the corridor southeast of Embrun have been completely (or as nearly so as possible) obliterated from the landscape and have been returned to cultivation, which sort of suggests it was sold or otherwise transferred to the farmers themselves (?).

It mystifies me that CP didn't pick this line up rather than CN because it would have given them a good way out of Ottawa towards their mainline to Montreal and a pretty decent line to Cornwall as well.

[waterloowarrior]

North Bay joining Renfrew County in concerns over future of railway
http://www.thedailyobserver.ca/Artic...aspx?e=2258588


The Upper Ottawa Valley and the Pontiac may have another ally in the quest to retain rail service in this region.

During its latest meeting, Renfrew County's development and property committee heard that the city of North Bay was concerned that the CP rail line that runs from Smiths Falls to North Bay could be torn up.

County officials reported to the committee that North Bay was interested in attending a meeting being facilitated by Renfrew County Warden Don Rathwell that will involve municipal leaders from all along the affected line.

A firm date has not been set for the meeting that will allow the politicians to voice their concerns and ideas on how rail service in the region can be salvaged.

Renfrew County, being centrally located along the rail route, is poised to host the meeting and Petawawa Mayor Bob Sweet has offered the Petawawa Civic Centre as a location. County CAO Norm Lemke and county development and property director Jim Hutton are currently working to set up the meeting as quickly as possible.

Development and property committee chairman Mayor Sweet of Petawawa, stated that the timeline to try and save the rail line is very short.

The CP line is one of two running through the valley. The other, the old CN line known as the Beachburg Subdivision, is also being abandoned.[...]

[Aylmer]

I did not know this:

http://www.cedec.ca/files/CT/Website..._Bilingual.pdf

(press release) Chelsea Train Station Feasibility

I heard it will probably be up within two years!

[c_speed3108]

Carleton Place-Ottawa bus launches
Last Updated: Monday, May 3, 2010 | 9:47 AM ET Comments0Recommend1
CBC News

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/stor...#ixzz0msNczGkG


A new bus service between Ottawa and nearby Carleton Place hit the highway Monday.

Lanark Community Transit, which serves the municipality west of Ottawa that includes Carleton Place, began taking passengers on the new route Monday morning. The trip costs $10 each way, and the buses are permitted to use the special bus-only highway lanes usually reserved for Ottawa's OC Transpo buses.

Each weekday, more than 5,000 people commute into the city from Carleton Place, a community of 10,000 people 50 kilometres west of Ottawa.

Gary Strike, director of Lanark Community Transit, said staff recognized there was a need for a commuter bus because of all the people working and studying in Ottawa. He added, "There was a lot of seniors asking about the service to do day trips into Ottawa to visit relatives."

The bus makes four stops in Carleton Place, with the first at East Town Line Road and Bridge Street. It will take Highway 7 to Highway 417, then head to Queen and Bank Street in downtown Ottawa, making 15 other stops in the city along the way.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/stor...#ixzz0msNX8cWL

http://www.lct-thegreencorridor.com

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

http://www.lct-thegreencorridor.com

I'd be interested to see the ultimate ridership counts. To warrant commuter rail, I would think it would need to have 16 bus runs at full capacity in each direction during the morning and afternoon rush hour. I think it may be warranted within 10-15 years, too bad they will have to do additional work at the Highway 7 underpass to accomodate such.

[c_speed3108]

A step in the right direction.

New life for Ottawa-Pembroke rail line?

Valley group buys former CN line

By STEPHEN UHLER, QMI Agency

Last Updated: November 24, 2010 8:10am


PEMBROKE - A major obstacle to preserving the CN line running between Pembroke and Ottawa via the Pontiac has been overcome, paving the way for freight and passenger traffic to resume starting next year.

On Tuesday, Transport Pontiac-Renfrew (TPR) announced it has signed an agreement-in-principle with Canadian National Railway for TPR to acquire the lines, known officially as the Beachburg Subdivision.

In a press release, Louise Donaldson, director of Transport Pontiac-Renfrew, said this is a significant development.

"This initial agreement is a big step in the acquisition process," she said. "Some specifics of the deal still need to be worked out, but the parties are eager to complete the transaction."

No one is more pleased by the announcement than Izett McBride, Whitewater Region's new deputy mayor. He was an original member of the group that wanted a commuter rail service established on the line.

"They still need to dot the Is and cross the Ts for this," he said. "I think it is terrific they were able to reach an agreement and keep it in public hands."

The fight to save the rail started back in 2008, when private and public groups on both sides of the Ottawa River began exploring the possibility of reintroducing passenger service. A special Sunday "commuter excursion" was held on Oct. 5, 2008, in which a group of mayors, officials, reeves, media and invited guests were taken on a short rail trip to prove the feasibility of the idea.

Days later, the Ottawa Central Railway and its parent Quebec Railway Corporation, which owned the Beachburg subdivision, were sold to CN and within months after that, the line was placed on CN's abandonment list.

Fearing the impact on local industry, the non-profit Transport Pontiac-Renfrew group was formed in an attempt to ensure rail service remains in the Upper Ottawa Valley and Western Quebec.

"Rail is key to revitalizing our communities," said Ms. Donaldson. "It'll serve as a major benefit when courting new industry, plus it will attract future rail-served clients which in turn will create jobs."

Once acquired, the TPR will begin freight operations along the line as soon as possible. If all goes as planned, this is expected to be rolling in the spring of 2011.

Passenger/commuter service will be brought in later, with possible tourist excursions added to the mix.

"The freight is the more profitable side of this," McBride said, which will bring in the revenues needed to upgrade the lines so they can bring in a viable passenger service.

The upcoming reopening of Trebio's Smurfit-Stone pulp mill in Portage-du-Fort to manufacture energy wood pellets will be dependent on rail service, along with other industries within Renfrew County.

The tracks have been graded to 40 mph, which is usable for freight, but need to be upgraded to allow trains to run at 60 mph for passengers.

Mr. McBride said TPR expects the rail service to be self-financing, and except for items such as the construction of stations along the way, won't be looking for municipal funds to keep the rail line going.

"They know municipalities are not in the position" to be partners in this, he said.

.

[GoTrans]

I hate to be a naysayer with respection to the provision of commuter rail service but when the route avoids Renfrew and Arnprior it will be difficult to provide cost effective service only stopping at the smaller commumities. What really needs to be done is to reroute the service via the above locations and contiunue on thorough Pakenham, Almonte and Carleton Place with a re-established connection to Stittsville, South Kanata and Ottawa. Unfortunately previous decisions by all levels of governement from federal, to municipal have made this option much more expensive to re-establish. It would be great to see these rustig rails rehabilitated.

[Dado]

People in the Pontiac don't have a lot of transport options other than using Highway 148 or the ferry at Quyon, so this service would be more attractive than it would first appear. Also, from the point of view of someone coming from Pembroke (which is admittedly a long way out), going through the Pontiac is in fact more direct than going through Renfrew and Arnprior.


With respect to the rest of what you write, at the moment no one is making any serious attempts to save the CP Chalk River subdivision (which is the line that goes north from Smiths Falls through Carleton Place, Almonte, Arnprior, along the river through Braeside and Sand Point to Renfrew and continues north to Pembroke and beyond to Petawawa and Chalk River, after which it turns into the North Bay sub and continues on to Mattawa (the end of the section being abandoned) and North Bay). CP also refuses to consider selling the line in anything less than whole, so splitting it up into shorter and more affordable logical chunks is beyond the question as well.

For instance, the Towns of Arnprior and Renfrew along with the Township of McNab-Braeside would have a reason to acquire the line from Arnprior to Renfrew and connect it to the remainder of the Renfrew subdivision in Arnprior, thus establishing the potential for commuter service into Ottawa from Renfrew and from the main part of Arnprior (the Renfrew sub terminates south of the Madawaska River away from the main area of settlement in Arnprior). Pembroke and Petawawa would have reason to secure the line through Pembroke proper for passenger service (rather than going around the outskirts as the Beachburg sub does), and on to Petawawa where it can serve military personnel and military equipment movements.

[reidjr]

I think a go train type link between ottawa-pembroke would be a huge success.

[gjhall]

Extending it to Petawawa would probably help make it economically viable - given the business between Ottawa and the base.

[GoTrans]

A rail line success story


OTTAWA CITIZEN JANUARY 7, 2011


Re: Commuter Rail Would Reduce Gridlock, Jan. 3.

Letter-writer D.C. McCaffrey presents a compelling argument for the implementation of a GO Transit type commuter service into Ottawa on existing heavy rail corridors stating "a commuter link would serve a very necessary and practical function, in addition to preserving the tracks for future freight use ..." McCaffrey is also correct in suggesting "once the tracks are gone they are gone forever." Rail lines are expensive to construct; in most cases, cost-prohibitive.

Like the CP "Valley Line", CN's "Beachburg Subdivision" is also on an abandonment list, but the similarities end here. The Beachburg Sub connects with the CP line in Pembroke, then runs southeast through Beachburg, Ont. before crossing into Quebec at Portage du Fort. The line returns to Ontario at Fitzroy Harbour, travelling east through Kanata, Nepean and into Ottawa. West of Kanata, a branch of the line extends west to and terminates at Nylene in Arnprior.

In 2009, the not-for-profit "Transport Pontiac-Renfrew" (TPR) was formed with a mission to acquire the Beachburg Sub from CN. Ottawa-based RailFutures Group was subsequently commissioned to prepare a business case and feasibility study concerning continued freight and future passenger/commuter service along the Pembroke-to-Ottawa line. The study determined that shipping freight by rail must continue to sustain and help rejuvenate the fragile business climate in Pontiac and Renfrew Counties. The 200+ page report also included results from specific surveys dealing with both freight and future passenger/ commuter applications. The results for commuter in particular were encouraging.

In November 2010, an initial agreement in principle was struck between CN and TPR. Details of the agreement can be found at www.transportpontiac-renfrew.ca.

Assuming full acquisition of the CN line by TPR, freight service will continue uninterrupted with commuter service scheduled for launch within two years.

Harry Gow and Terry Gibeau

Co-Chairs,

Transport Pontiac-Renfrew

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Even though this is not the most sustainable route with respect to commuter traffic it does provide some hope for the eventual start up of suburban commuter rail. This could also be developed into an express shuttle service between the Via Rail station and Kanata that could negate the need for extending LRT to Kanata as soon as some people want. This could be done for a lot less money than extending the LRT and it also preserves the rail line for future inter-city use down/up the Ottawa valley as long as the CPR route is preserved in its entirety to Sudbury.

[Dado]

I'm hearing rumours in the grapevine that track lifting of some 25 miles of track is either underway or will start next week between Renfrew and Pembroke.

If so, it would compromise a commuter rail route to Pembroke via Renfrew and Arnprior (with a short track connection in Arnprior), though a commuter route from Renfrew via Arnprior into Ottawa would still be doable. A commuter rail route to Pembroke would then have no option but to go via the Pontiac.

If track removals occur beyond Pembroke then we can pretty much kiss goodbye any possibility of restoring any kind of passenger service between Ottawa and Northern Ontario and Western Canada, or the retention of freight rail service.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Dado

I'm hearing rumours in the grapevine that track lifting of some 25 miles of track is either underway or will start next week between Renfrew and Pembroke.

If so, it would compromise a commuter rail route to Pembroke via Renfrew and Arnprior (with a short track connection in Arnprior), though a commuter route from Renfrew via Arnprior into Ottawa would still be doable. A commuter rail route to Pembroke would then have no option but to go via the Pontiac.

If track removals occur beyond Pembroke then we can pretty much kiss goodbye any possibility of restoring any kind of passenger service between Ottawa and Northern Ontario and Western Canada, or the retention of freight rail service.

The condition of the rail line would likely require significant rail replacement anyway. As long as the rail bed is preserved, it would be doable still. But Pembroke is likely too far away for any commuter line to be viable even in the very long term.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

The condition of the rail line would likely require significant rail replacement anyway. As long as the rail bed is preserved, it would be doable still. But Pembroke is likely too far away for any commuter line to be viable even in the very long term.

The rail being lifted is in good condition - it's continuous welded rail, much of it laid down in the last decade. CP and OVR had begun upgrading the rail from south to north and got to somewhere around Deux Rivières, so the only track that would need upgrading is well past Pembroke and Petawawa. As it happens, I saw the rail recovery train as it passed through Almonte on Sunday.

Even if the rails were in bad condition, you're still better off to leave them in place as they can be used to deliver replacement rails (since they are just deposited along the right of way) in the future, but once the tracks are out, the difficulty of reinstating track is far greater. It's a tedious, time-consuming process regardless of which method of construction is used.

The only "good" news in all this is that the break of line is on the Ottawa side of Pembroke and the interchange with the Beachburg Sub (in fact, it's south of the overpass to the southeast of Pembroke) rather than the other side of it, meaning that the potential of retaining a link to western Canada still exists by a combination of the CN soon-to-be TPR Beachburg Sub and the rest of the CPR Chalk River Sub and North Bay Sub. If the towns of Renfrew and Arnprior can get their acts together, they can still save the track through their towns so they can connect it to the Renfrew Sub in Arnprior for commuter and local freight service - they don't even have to connect the track up at the time, just keep it in place until such time as they do.

[dennis1]

So what would be the stations for this?

[kevinbottawa]

Interprovincial rail service proposed by mayor group

The group of mayors is proposing a rail linhk between certain Ontario and Quebec towns.

Updated: Sat Sep. 03 2011 3:05:24 PM

ctvottawa.ca

Communities in west Quebec and the Ottawa Valley are lobbying for a commuter rail service.

Mayors from Arnprior, Smiths Falls, Casselman, Montebello, Wakefield and Norway Bay met with federal officials Friday to propose three lines of service with a hub in Ottawa.

"We have a fairly large component of people travelling into the city now for work," said Arnprior Mayor David Reid. "This commuter rail service would also help seniors, which is a growing segment of our town, for doctors appointments. . . as well as students going into college or university."

CP rail is in the process of taking out track in the area after it abandoned its rail service last year.

It's tearing up a stretch of track between Renfrew and Pembroke.

I'd love to see this happen.