Chief William Commanda Bridge (Prince of Wales Bridge) | Closed for Winter

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

As tragic as this incident is, it wasn't the fault of the bridge.

But it will happen again. Mainly though it’s a useless blight.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

As tragic as this incident is, it wasn't the fault of the bridge.

I agree. The state of the bridge isn't the bridge's fault either. It's the City's fault. They are the ones who bought it just to abandon it for 15+ years. They are the ones who've only installed simple warning signs and easily breached/jumped chain-link fences. The City should be held responsible and forced to safeguard the bridge, be it by restoration, replacement or transfer to higher authority who will do the necessary work.

[DEWLine]

Fix it for rail transit.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

As tragic as this incident is, it wasn't the fault of the bridge.

Nor would renovation necessarily help a great deal - kids would probably still jump from it. Part of that stage of life is exploring and pushing boundaries. Teens have always been jumping from things, and they will likely continue to do so, no matter how many fences we put up. The best thing to do is to find some way of making diving less ad-hoc and hazardous. For example, identifying which spots are more and less dangerous, and putting in place some infrastructure to reduce hazards (buoy tubes in strong currents, remove shallow rocks, etc). And if there is no place to jump with an acceptable level of risk, that should also be explained and indicated.

It's tempting and satisfying to wrap everything in maximum hazard tape. I do wonder if overuse cheapens the effect. Think, for example, if we put the same warnings on alcohol as we did on bleach. Or the same danger warnings at Britannia Beach and the Deschênes Rapids.

We shouldn't be shocked at teenagers doing risky things. And we're unlikely to be the first generation in history to successfully stop adolescence. Risk prohibition is a fantasy preventing us from making actual improvements in risk management. We need to decide if it's more important for us to stop kids from jumping or to stop kids from drowning - not only are they not the same thing, they might sometimes be mutually exclusive goals.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day.

City and NCC / Parks / Heritage need to do the right thing......

IMHO a full center deck for double LRT track, with cantilever off both sides for Bicycles and Pedestrians (separated, for safety of all - NOT a MUP), both with full and proper anti-scale anti-jump fencing.
Add an underpass at Lemieux Island for a lookout eastward (NO fencing - if an idiot wants to jump in there, let them).
Yes, it will cost some bucks. So....do it right the first time (for once !) - it will cost less overall in the long run.

<sigh>

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

City and NCC / Parks / Heritage need to do the right thing......

IMHO a full center deck for double LRT track, with cantilever off both sides for Bicycles and Pedestrians (separated, for safety of all - NOT a MUP), both with full and proper anti-scale anti-jump fencing.
Add an underpass at Lemieux Island for a lookout eastward (NO fencing - if an idiot wants to jump in there, let them).
Yes, it will cost some bucks. So....do it right the first time (for once !) - it will cost less overall in the long run.

<sigh>

What? Is there any plan in the medium term to use this bridge for LRT? It sounds like are talking like a $50 million + renovation. This is not even a particularly useful bike or pedestrian route. It will be almost at the end of it's lifespan by the time we are even contemplating using it.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

What? Is there any plan in the medium term to use this bridge for LRT? It sounds like are talking like a $50 million + renovation. This is not even a particularly useful bike or pedestrian route. It will be almost at the end of it's lifespan by the time we are even contemplating using it.

Good Day.

Plan to use in any time frame - keeps getting bounced around like a hot potato (polite term) in any view of use (LRT , MUP , bike , TC trail , etc) !

$50 M , is now an estimate for a basic bridge replacement. Because we are already at
End of Lifespan - thanks to the current owner (City Ottawa - Jimbo McCheep), it is now already expired via demolition by neglect in the 15 years we've had it.
Back at purchase, the estimates were $ 10-20 M for a proper refurbishment. Back then. Estimates.

My concept will admittedly be more expensive now, because it contemplates making it an attraction as well as establishing multiple connectivity
(the usefulness of which is another question and debate).

Some here believe, as do I, that it is still viable as a secondary LRT bridge for the T-Line to Tache/TdlC-Zibi/PdP,
with transfer stations to the STO tram and Rapibus (whose primary link to Ottawa remains the Portage to Lyon-Parl-etc).
It could take pressure off both the STO and the C-Line systems between Bayview/Tache and the downtowns of both Gat and Ott. IMO.

<sigh>

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Nor would renovation necessarily help a great deal - kids would probably still jump from it. Part of that stage of life is exploring and pushing boundaries. Teens have always been jumping from things, and they will likely continue to do so, no matter how many fences we put up. The best thing to do is to find some way of making diving less ad-hoc and hazardous. For example, identifying which spots are more and less dangerous, and putting in place some infrastructure to reduce hazards (buoy tubes in strong currents, remove shallow rocks, etc). And if there is no place to jump with an acceptable level of risk, that should also be explained and indicated.

***

We shouldn't be shocked at teenagers doing risky things. And we're unlikely to be the first generation in history to successfully stop adolescence. Risk prohibition is a fantasy preventing us from making actual improvements in risk management. We need to decide if it's more important for us to stop kids from jumping or to stop kids from drowning - not only are they not the same thing, they might sometimes be mutually exclusive goals.

We can't prevent teenagers or any other person from recreational jumping, but having a functional bridge would greatly reduce the number of daredevil jumpers. There's a reason why we don't see anyone jumping off Champlain, Alexandra or MC (no one would ever be dumb enough to jump off of Chaudiere or Portage).

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

City and NCC / Parks / Heritage need to do the right thing......

IMHO a full center deck for double LRT track, with cantilever off both sides for Bicycles and Pedestrians (separated, for safety of all - NOT a MUP), both with full and proper anti-scale anti-jump fencing.
Add an underpass at Lemieux Island for a lookout eastward (NO fencing - if an idiot wants to jump in there, let them).
Yes, it will cost some bucks. So....do it right the first time (for once !) - it will cost less overall in the long run.

<sigh>

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

Plan to use in any time frame - keeps getting bounced around like a hot potato (polite term) in any view of use (LRT , MUP , bike , TC trail , etc) !

$50 M , is now an estimate for a basic bridge replacement. Because we are already at
End of Lifespan - thanks to the current owner (City Ottawa - Jimbo McCheep), it is now already expired via demolition by neglect in the 15 years we've had it.
Back at purchase, the estimates were $ 10-20 M for a proper refurbishment. Back then. Estimates.

My concept will admittedly be more expensive now, because it contemplates making it an attraction as well as establishing multiple connectivity
(the usefulness of which is another question and debate).

Some here believe, as do I, that it is still viable as a secondary LRT bridge for the T-Line to Tache/TdlC-Zibi/PdP,
with transfer stations to the STO tram and Rapibus (whose primary link to Ottawa remains the Portage to Lyon-Parl-etc).
It could take pressure off both the STO and the C-Line systems between Bayview/Tache and the downtowns of both Gat and Ott. IMO.

<sigh>

I completely agree with your proposal. To add to that, the lookout(s) could be placed strategically in spots where jumping, should anyone have the urge, is safest (but of course not advertise that to the general population).

One hopes that the NCC's interprovincial mobility study shows how crucial the PoW bridge is for transit and active transportation, as a way to relieve other bridges and transit lines, along with making LeBreton Flats that much more successful (should it ever be redeveloped).

[acottawa]

I think it is time to quit flogging the dead horse. Neither Ottawa nor Gatineau have any active plans to use the bridge. It is a particularly long and inefficient crossing that is only practical for a few rare connections (it is about 2 km from Bayview to Taché, which is only slightly less than the distance from Taché to Lyon via the Portage Bridge).

If it is deemed to have aesthetic or historical value then it should be preserved in whatever the most efficient way possible (probably conversion to a MUP), otherwise it should be demolished before more people get hurt.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

We can't prevent teenagers or any other person from recreational jumping, but having a functional bridge would greatly reduce the number of daredevil jumpers. There's a reason why we don't see anyone jumping off Champlain, Alexandra or MC (no one would ever be dumb enough to jump off of Chaudiere or Portage).

No, but oh dear spaghetti monster, the number of people frolicking in the rapids near Champlain.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think it is time to quit flogging the dead horse. Neither Ottawa nor Gatineau have any active plans to use the bridge. It is a particularly long and inefficient crossing that is only practical for a few rare connections (it is about 2 km from Bayview to Taché, which is only slightly less than the distance from Taché to Lyon via the Portage Bridge).

If it is deemed to have aesthetic or historical value then it should be preserved in whatever the most efficient way possible (probably conversion to a MUP), otherwise it should be demolished before more people get hurt.

It's not a designated heritage structure, is it?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

It's not a designated heritage structure, is it?

If it isn't, the cult of the POW will be sure to make sure it receives that designation if there is any hint of its demolition.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

It's not a designated heritage structure, is it?

It doesn’t appear in the directory of federal heritage designations. There may be a separate process for railway infrastructure.

[Allandale25]

A July 9, 2020 article with quotes from Joseph Potvin at Moose.

https://ontarioconstructionnews.com/...-cant-do-that/

“Moose Consortium’s plans have been laser-focused and consistent since we began,” Potvin said on Sunday. “We are patient. We are also each extremely busy with other work, but this project remains on our ‘front burner’, primed for when the timing is right. We have many allies within both city administrations who keep their heads down due to the political pressures . . . therefore, no, I cannot validate that statement.”

[Gat-Train]

Potvin suggests that Watson’s opposition to Moose’s proposal relates to “Clientelism” — defined as “the client giving political or financial support to a patron (as in the form of votes) in exchange for some special privilege or benefit”.

“Politicos in the clientelist system must remain dismissive of all who are outside the value chain, otherwise Clientelism wouldn’t work,” he said. “The thing with clientelism though is that usually they take care to tippytoe within the letter of the law.”

Boy you can say that again. I'm almost certain that the only reason for Watson's opposition to using the POW bridge for transit is that it wouldn't make his cronies rich enough.

[Truenorth00]

The city needs to be call MOOSE's bluff. Offer them the bridge for $50M. Give them 30 days to respond.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by DEWLine

Fix it for rail transit.

And while we're at it, build way more safe water-recreation infrastructure, including safe jumping places, to reduce the temptation of the bridge.

[OCCheetos]

The City has started an environmental assessment for interim use of the bridge as a MUP using the existing funds for pier rehabilitation in the budget.

https://twitter.com/KatePorterCBC/st...06889078841350

The pier rehabilitation will now be phased over several years.

[rocketphish]

Council votes to launch study on a Prince of Wales Bridge pathway
Past estimates have put the cost of such a project at $10 million.

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Dec 09, 2020 • Last Updated 12 hours ago • 1 minute read

Council on Wednesday authorized $540,000 for an environmental assessment and design work to turn the Prince of Wales Bridge into an interprovincial multi-use pathway.

The City of Ottawa has owned the old rail bridge since 2005 with the assumption it would one day provide a natural transit link between Ottawa and Gatineau since the north-south Trillium Line is just south of its location. However, the City of Gatineau has since determined that the Portage Bridge makes the most sense as a primary crossing for a new transit system running from Aylmer to downtown Ottawa.

The idea of putting a pathway on the deck of the Prince of Wales Bridge gained steam in 2019, when it became clear it wouldn’t be used for an interprovincial rail service anytime soon. Federal Infrastructure Minister and Ottawa Centre MP Catherine McKenna has said she would work with provincial authorities to fund the work.

Past estimates have put the cost at $10 million.

The money for the environmental assessment and design work would come from a City of Ottawa account earmarked for rehabilitation of the bridge piers, but staff believe the piers can still be restored in phases with left money in the account.

The bridge is closed to the public.

The City of Ottawa has tried to block access to the deck using fences, but people have still been able to get on the bridge, especially in the warm months to watch sunsets or to jump into the Ottawa River to go swimming. A teenaged boy died in the summer after jumping from the bridge into the water.

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...bridge-pathway