Ontario Highways

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Woohoo I’ve been on new section of 427!

Cool!

I now have a slightly better way to avoid the mess of Toronto when I want to get to Pearson Airport from the north.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Cool!

I now have a slightly better way to avoid the mess of Toronto when I want to get to Pearson Airport from the north.

I don’t know if I’d recommend such an alternative, though. 400 and/or 401 Collector between 400 and 409 will have to be really bad for this to be attractive.
Another thing is that the speed limit on Major MacKenzie Drive is now only 60 kph but one can probably go 80+ kph in those sections. That said, it’s no guarantee that that stretch from 400 and 427 will always be free of speed traps. It’s for sure something to be mindful of as you blow past everyone in the rhombus lane on weekends. (It’s only HOV during rush hours.)

[Djeffery]

I'd definitely choose 5 miles of Major Mac over who knows what the 400 and 401 are like.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I can do this too!

I drive on Highway 69. As per the MTO criteria and design standards, it doesn't need a divided freeway.

Yet, here we are! I drive on a beautiful divided 4-lane highway that continually gets longer. Wonderful 6-ramp interchanges to podunk side roads. Cash shovelled into blasting huge rock cuts and filling swamps. New massive bridges.

But those who cry 'Politics is bad!' sure get quiet when they get what they want.

Ah, yes the "look over here" tactic.

When the government does something, whether it be roads, rails, pipelines, or any other infrastructure, it always is political. Most of the time, it is to either keep seats, or to buy seats. I long for a future time where infrastructure is built, not based on votes, but on actual need.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Ah, yes the "look over here" tactic.

When the government does something, whether it be roads, rails, pipelines, or any other infrastructure, it always is political. Most of the time, it is to either keep seats, or to buy seats. I long for a future time where infrastructure is built, not based on votes, but on actual need.

Sure. You'd hand the process to the MTO with criteria (AADT, truck volume, crash stats) and hand them an infrastructure budget.

Then the people of Sudbury could whine about 2-lane Highway 69 until the end of time, because the AADT and crash stats doesn't justify a couple of billion dollars of 400-series highway.

Admittedly, private companies like railways are probably closer to being apolitical because they just operate for their shareholders.

Now, the right balance to strike between politics and apolitical decision-making? I mean, I'd like the 'thewave46 plan' of immaculate roads exactly where I want them and to hell with the rest, just like you'd love alternate provincially-funded roads exactly where you want them. Neither of our dreams is happening.

Politics is only bad when I don't get what I want, as if I'm the only person in the province of Ontario whose opinion matters. But 'apolitics' is also bad if I don't get what I want either. Basically, I just want to whine until I get what I want.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I'd definitely choose 5 miles of Major Mac over who knows what the 400 and 401 are like.

Pretty much this.

It's always a crapshoot with the 400/401 option. The 427 north of the 401 generally flows pretty well unless it's rush hour.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Sure. You'd hand the process to the MTO with criteria (AADT, truck volume, crash stats) and hand them an infrastructure budget.

Then the people of Sudbury could whine about 2-lane Highway 69 until the end of time, because the AADT and crash stats doesn't justify a couple of billion dollars of 400-series highway.

Admittedly, private companies like railways are probably closer to being apolitical because they just operate for their shareholders.

Now, the right balance to strike between politics and apolitical decision-making? I mean, I'd like the 'thewave46 plan' of immaculate roads exactly where I want them and to hell with the rest, just like you'd love alternate provincially-funded roads exactly where you want them. Neither of our dreams is happening.

Politics is only bad when I don't get what I want, as if I'm the only person in the province of Ontario whose opinion matters. But 'apolitics' is also bad if I don't get what I want either. Basically, I just want to whine until I get what I want.

Notice how I never mentioned any 4 laning?
Notice how I have only mentioned resurfacing 2 lane highways?

AADT has nothing to do with it... but it does.

For instance, highway 101 in Timmins regularly makes the short list of Ontario's Worst Roads. Why is that the case? The only obvious answer is who the locals have voted for.

Take the budget. Divided into simple categories, such as 400 series highway extensions, 400 series highway improvement, Kings Highway series improvements, Tertiary highway improvements. Now, let condition and AADT be the guide to getting work done.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Notice how I never mentioned any 4 laning?
Notice how I have only mentioned resurfacing 2 lane highways?

AADT has nothing to do with it... but it does.

For instance, highway 101 in Timmins regularly makes the short list of Ontario's Worst Roads. Why is that the case? The only obvious answer is who the locals have voted for.

Take the budget. Divided into simple categories, such as 400 series highway extensions, 400 series highway improvement, Kings Highway series improvements, Tertiary highway improvements. Now, let condition and AADT be the guide to getting work done.

I've driven Highway 101 through Timmins. It mostly serves as a municipal road. Highway 101/Algonquin Blvd. through Timmins is covered under a connecting link agreement with the province. It just got funding this year.

Connecting link funding in Ontario

You complain as if the MTO is just a political patronage thing exclusively. It mostly isn't. It has an infrastructure program to rehabilitate/expand highways that basically outlines the priorities you list.

Municipal/county roads generally are funded by local taxpayers. Now if you believe that Algonquin/Highway 101 should be exclusively a provincial matter that's a different debate.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I've driven Highway 101 through Timmins. It mostly serves as a municipal road. Highway 101/Algonquin Blvd. through Timmins is covered under a connecting link agreement with the province. It just got funding this year.

Connecting link funding in Ontario

You complain as if the MTO is just a political patronage thing exclusively. It mostly isn't. It has an infrastructure program to rehabilitate/expand highways that basically outlines the priorities you list.

Municipal/county roads generally are funded by local taxpayers. Now if you believe that Algonquin/Highway 101 should be exclusively a provincial matter that's a different debate.

I am not saying the MOT is just a political patronage. I am saying that far too often it acts like it is.

I did think that Highway 101 through Timmins was a provincially funded section of highway. That still doesn't explain the mess of highway 17 near Sudbury and 63 near the QC border.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I am not saying the MOT is just a political patronage. I am saying that far too often it acts like it is.

I did think that Highway 101 through Timmins was a provincially funded section of highway. That still doesn't explain the mess of highway 17 near Sudbury and 63 near the QC border.

Your first assertion is contradictory.

What's the problem with 17 near Sudbury and 63 near Temiscaming?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Your first assertion is contradictory.

What's the problem with 17 near Sudbury and 63 near Temiscaming?

Well, one is in worst shape than the other.
One has had some 'bandaid fixes.'
However, the one in better shape is being redone first.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Well, one is in worst shape than the other.
One has had some 'bandaid fixes.'
However, the one in better shape is being redone first.

I'm still confused to what you are specifically referring to for those two highways. What 'bandaid fixes' are you referring to? Which one is the better shape one?

I've driven both. They're about in the condition I would expect for a major highway that serves as the backbone for the region (17) and a minor highway (63) that serves as a connection for a rural region in an adjacent province.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I'm still confused to what you are specifically referring to for those two highways. What 'bandaid fixes' are you referring to? Which one is the better shape one?

I've driven both. They're about in the condition I would expect for a major highway that serves as the backbone for the region (17) and a minor highway (63) that serves as a connection for a rural region in an adjacent province.

The section of 63 is in decent shape. They have had to fix some spots, but nothing serious.

The section of Highway 17 between Hagar and the CN tracks has seen chunks of it rebuilt, but other parts left to get worse. In fact, this year, the scraped and paved a few sections. It still has a few neglected spots. when compared to the rest of 63, or 17 to North Bay.

[swimmer_spe]

Ok.... place your bets....

Extension vs widening...

Right now Highway 400 south of Barrie is seeing the bridges and other infrastructure being rebuilt to make way for it being widened from 6 lanes to 8+. Also, a chunk of highway 69 is being twinned. About 70km will be left when it opens either this year or next year.

So, if you were a betting person, and you had to bet something you cherish, which do you think will open first? 400 widening south of Barrie or the 70km left to twin?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Ok.... place your bets....

Extension vs widening...

Right now Highway 400 south of Barrie is seeing the bridges and other infrastructure being rebuilt to make way for it being widened from 6 lanes to 8+. Also, a chunk of highway 69 is being twinned. About 70km will be left when it opens either this year or next year.

So, if you were a betting person, and you had to bet something you cherish, which do you think will open first? 400 widening south of Barrie or the 70km left to twin?

I think it will be the widening south of Barrie.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Ok.... place your bets....

Extension vs widening...

Right now Highway 400 south of Barrie is seeing the bridges and other infrastructure being rebuilt to make way for it being widened from 6 lanes to 8+. Also, a chunk of highway 69 is being twinned. About 70km will be left when it opens either this year or next year.

So, if you were a betting person, and you had to bet something you cherish, which do you think will open first? 400 widening south of Barrie or the 70km left to twin?

Hmmm....

Building 70 km of virgin freeway through rocky Canadian Shield with land use issues to resolve or rebuilding existing interchanges and laying pavement through farm country with preexisting right-of-way near our country's biggest metro area?

No contest. Barrie - Toronto.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Hmmm....

Building 70 km of virgin freeway through rocky Canadian Shield with land use issues to resolve or rebuilding existing interchanges and laying pavement through farm country with preexisting right-of-way near our country's biggest metro area?

No contest. Barrie - Toronto.

My bet is on that too. They have been doing it in 20km chunks at about 5 years long. So, we have about 15-20 years left for highway 69. I figure 5-10 years the 400 will be widened to at least 8 lanes to the split.

[sonysnob]

View looking easterly towards the Toronto Skyline from the Winston Churchill Boulevard overtop of the QEW:

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_i...ep21_24x16.jpg

[sonysnob]

View looking westerly along the 407 towards the 412 interchange from the Cochrane Road overpass in Brooklin:

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_4...ep21_24x16.jpg

[Dengler Avenue]

Was that burning cloud or lightning?