CHICAGO | Lincoln Yards

[Zerton]

delete.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

Blue Line and the Brown are each more than a mile's walk. Metra is the closest at a half mile and Red line at 3/4.
The water taxi is a joke.
The 606 doesn't get there
The Expressway if precisely why it is an auto-centric project
and
There are currently about 40,000 people in a one mile radius of LY. If they max out the MLA for the LY acreage it might reach 75000.

Metra is 0.2 miles. Brown line is 0.6 miles. Red line is 0.9 miles. Blue line is 1.1 miles.

That is as of today. Sterling Bay proposes to move the Metra station to be on-site and extend the 606 to the site. The water taxi is indeed a joke.

I'm not arguing that these distances are acceptable for an office worker to do every day year-round. But for someone going to an occasional game on a spring/summer/fall day... yea these distances are not a problem.

As for the population figure, this website says 135k within 1.5km (.9 miles). No idea how accurate it is though.

https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by moorhosj

Not quite, it's about the same distance as the Addison Red Line station to Southport and the Ashland stop on Green/Pink to the United Center.

They aren't putting the stadium in the middle of Finkltown.
They're putting it behind the Home Depot on the the old city fleet yard.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by moorhosj

Not quite, it's about the same distance as the Addison Red Line station to Southport and the Ashland stop on Green/Pink to the United Center.

I don't think this is correct...

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

They aren't putting the stadium in the middle of Finkltown.
They're putting it behind the Home Depot on the the old city fleet yard.

Has this actually been decided on or was it just put there conceptually? Where on the site they put the stadium could indeed materially impact the walking distance from transit.

[moorhosj]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

They aren't putting the stadium in the middle of Finkltown.
They're putting it behind the Home Depot on the the old city fleet yard.

Thank you for the clarification. The Clifton-Wabansia pedestrian bridge is already a part of the framework plan. That would make your proposed trip 5-10 minutes faster.

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

As for the population figure, this website says 135k within 1.5km (.9 miles). No idea how accurate it is though.

https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm

That would be a population density of 53,000 PPM
Pretty good considering at least 1/4 of it has 0 people living on it.

[left of center]

Assuming that the proposed light rail line for this site wont be developed anytime soon (which is fine, as long as they reserve the ROW), they can always run shuttle buses to and from various L stations on game days. It wont be the most efficient way to get people to and from the stadium, but it can work as a temporary stop gap solution.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

Again, who cares? Fuck them.

Should Wrigley Field be demolished because it's not easy to get to by car?

It's strange to me that someone is arguing in favor of auto-centric development here.

Difference is, of course, that Wrigley Field WAS pretty much the outskirts of Chicago when it was built, so there's always that!

But seriously let's call a spade a spade here. ALL access around Lincoln Yards is pretty terrible right now, especially by car but it's also not exactly wonderful by transit, either. I guess it kind of depends on which specific part of Lincoln Yards we're referring to here, but many parts of it really are pretty limited to most all transportation modes.

Infrastructure needs to be improved, of course utilities and such, but also roads and certainly rail as well, in order for development anywhere near the scale of what is being proposed to actually come to fruition. Remember, folks, buses also get stuck in the same traffic nightmare that cars do, at least without dedicated bus-only lanes. Anyone ever have the "joy" of taking the #8 bus down Halsted from say Addison down to the West Loop? Painful, to say the least!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

How do 42,000 arrive at Wrigley Field?

Whatever your answer to that is, is my answer to your question.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here...

1) Wrigley Field is in an area with a defined street grid. Now these streets, with the exception of perhaps Ashland and Irving Park, aren't exactly major arterials, but at least you can get in and out of the area using multiple routes. And let's face it, traffic anywhere near game time is a complete disaster no matter what, even with an intact street grid.

2) The area around Lincoln Yards doesn't even have remotely close to an intact street grid, as you've got the river, multiple rail lines and rail yards, not to mention several large manufacturing/industrial companies all keeping most streets, both N-S and E-W, from going through the area. It's a complete clusterfuck most of the time already, so imagine it with 20,000 fans entering and leaving at relatively the same time without good transit. Good luck with that!

3) Even as someone who's only been living in Chicago since late October, even >I< know that your snarky response was pretty much completely absurd in this situation...

Aaron (Glowrock)

[left of center]

Originally Posted by glowrock

2) The area around Lincoln Yards doesn't even have remotely close to an intact street grid, as you've got the river, multiple rail lines and rail yards, not to mention several large manufacturing/industrial companies all keeping most streets, both N-S and E-W, from going through the area. It's a complete clusterfuck most of the time already, so imagine it with 20,000 fans entering and leaving at relatively the same time without good transit. Good luck with that!

Exactly right. Bottleneck-ing along the few ins and outs in the area is going to be the biggest challenge with this project, which is why rail transit with a dedicated ROW absolutely needs to be a part of the master plan. It doesn't have to be CTA style heavy rail either; light rail or surface street cars would do just fine, again as long as they run independently of auto traffic.

[PKDickman]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

Has this actually been decided on or was it just put there conceptually? Where on the site they put the stadium could indeed materially impact the walking distance from transit.

They haven't committed to anything at all, but at our meeting with SB, their plan was for the portion south of the river, to be their arts and entertainment district. At that time they poo pooed the stadium and were calling it an entertainment venue (same problems as far as I'm concerned).
It was butt up against the Home Depot and the portion northwest of it, at the bend in the river was to be about 3 ac of recreational open space.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by glowrock

3) Even as someone who's only been living in Chicago since late October, even >I< know that your snarky response was pretty much completely absurd in this situation...

Aaron (Glowrock)

I just really don't care about how convenient or inconvenient it is for someone to drive to a sporting venue in the middle of the city. I care about how convenient or inconvenient it is for someone to walk or use public transportation to get to the stadium, and in that regard it is not nearly as inconvenient as is being portrayed by many here. In fact, its light years better than the current situation at Toyota Park and in the same ballpark (hah) as the situation at Soldier Field and the United Center.

The transit situation is more of an issue for people that have to commute there every day. For the occasional fan going to a game, walking 15-20 minutes is the spring/summer/fall is nothing.

I never disagreed that traffic will be a shit show in this area during game days because traffic is already a shit show in this area almost every day. Sterling Bay will have to address that in order for any of this to be successfully built.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

I just really don't care about how convenient or inconvenient it is for someone to drive to a sporting venue in the middle of the city. I care about how convenient or inconvenient it is for someone to walk or use public transportation to get to the stadium, and in that regard it is not nearly as inconvenient as is being portrayed by many here. In fact, its light years better than the current situation at Toyota Park and in the same ballpark (hah) as the situation at Soldier Field and the United Center.

The transit situation is more of an issue for people that have to commute there every day. For the occasional fan going to a game, walking 15-20 minutes is the spring/summer/fall is nothing.

I never disagreed that traffic will be a shit show in this area during game days because traffic is already a shit show in this area almost every day. Sterling Bay will have to address that in order for any of this to be successfully built.

The comments I made about the improvements needed to make Lincoln Yards viable (as an overall dense development, not simply due to a stadium of any sort) in terms of transit and road infrastructure are still valid, though.

Look, we're probably all putting the cart before the horse, given that a decent amount of infrastructure WILL be completed before ANY stadium is actually built and fans of ANY team begin to flock to see games there. As it lies currently, though, all transportation access around the area is pretty horrible, though. And yes, given that, again, roads are used by buses as well, traffic nightmares become transit nightmares as well.

As for your last comment, we obviously agree on that. Sterling Bay's got its work cut out for them when it comes to this site!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[BobbyChicago]

With that location near Home Depot, it would be a 11 minute walk from the current Metra station and 16 minute walk from North/Clybourn red line.

Metra walk


Red line walk

[Freefall]

Originally Posted by BobbyChicago

With that location near Home Depot, it would be a 11 minute walk from the current Metra station and 16 minute walk from North/Clybourn red line.

Metra walk


Red line walk

Yeah... I'll just take an uber

[Rizzo]

These walking distance maps aren’t accurate if they are planning bridges which could change that.

[Kumdogmillionaire]

Originally Posted by Rizzo

These walking distance maps aren’t accurate if they are planning bridges which could change that.

The walking distance maps are also pretty bad because they use pretty slow walking pace for the timing.

[left of center]

Originally Posted by Freefall

Yeah... I'll just take an uber

Considering the presumed massive surge in the already terrible traffic in the area, good luck. Uber/Lyft/city buses will be getting stuck in the same gridlock as everyone else. And agreed, walking isn't too realistic for a good proportion of the population (lazy suburbanites, elderly folks, people with disabilities, etc).

Rail transport/BRT with dedicated ROW is the best solution here.

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire

The walking distance maps are also pretty bad because they use pretty slow walking pace for the timing.

They have to assume that the person walking isn't going to be walking at a brisk pace (like myself and most others probably would) so that people aren't getting upset that they are late all the time with their walking directions. Better safe than sorry, in Google's mind.

I always cut the time given to me by Google Maps by about 33% for my actual ETA lol.

[vxla]

Years ago I had this idea of turning the C&E Lakewood line into a street car. Here's the map that I came up with. Sure would have been nice to move people from this development to the places up north!