[Moncton] East (Harrisville, Lewisville, Tankville, Irishtown) Developments

[Feneant]

This is an exciting development... I grew up in Irishtown and it's so different now than it was 40 years ago. Although as someone who also moved back during the pandemic I am dreading what this means for the traffic in the mornings and afternoons at rush hour!

The logical plot of land for this is PAN 06313142 but even so I don't see that squeezing in everything they want at this should be significant larger than Pine Tree. I am curious if the builder isn't the guy who lives in the middle, I believe he was the owner of Dover Estates when it started so has the experience, but I'm not sure if that is just a rumor. If it's not him he can't be happy considering he just had the house next door removed and the lot re-finished, but at least he owns a large property- very large he if also owns the back acreage, which I think he does- though this might be part of the development too if he is in charge.

I really hope if this is where they build that they also bought 06414639 or 05849718 to connect to McLaughlin- there happens to be a lot of empty land between both that would easily allow for this. It would also make Eastgate attractive for those who's kids go to the French schools off McLaughling.

On another note the lot sizes are laughable, in those 50 feet wide lot you'll have to apologize to your neighbors every time you pass gas.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Feneant

On another note the lot sizes are laughable, in those 50 feet wide lot you'll have to apologize to your neighbors every time you pass gas.

I'm sure this is purposefully being planned as a high density development to make it more attractive to the city planning folk. Only about 20% of the development will be detached SFHs.

It didn't work. City planning actually recommended against approval of this development because it requires an extension to the municipal service boundary, and, because it would detract from the development of more easily serviceable lands south of the TCH such as the "Vision Lands."

Despite this, city council has voted to support this development. Looking at the available housing types, this appears to be a high quality development, and, being between the Granite Centre and Moncton High School, development of this section of Elmwood Drive is inevitable anyway.

I think increasing traffic issues on Elmwood Drive are a very real concern, despite the recent widening of Elmwood Drive, and the improvements to the Elmwood/TCH interchange. City council will have to look at options to provide an alternative connector between this neighbourhood and the downtown area of the city.

As you have rightly pointed out, the obvious choice would be to improve connectivity between Elmwood and McLaughlin Road. Right now, the only connector north of the TCH is Granite Drive. This is not sufficient. As you say, I hope there will be a connector between Eastgate and McLaughlin too.

In addition to the above, the time to create a new interchange at McLaughlin and the TCH has arrived. Traffic is only going to get worse in this neighbourhood, and a second exit off the TCH to service this area would be very beneficial, especially for access to the Granite Centre. Every single car that can access the Granite Centre from the TCH via McLaughlin will be one less car that will have to use Elmwood Drive. This will be very important as residential growth north of the TCH off of Elmwood continues to explode.

[Sunnybrae]

Don't mean to be a negative nilly but what is the point of stopping urban sprawl with policies adopted by the city, only to ignore them when someone flashes some cash? Couldn't this go inside the TCH?

[OliverD]

We all know building more roads solves traffic just perfectly.

[MonctonRad]

CBC article regarding the proposed Eastgate subdivision:

Moncton council opts to go against staff, anti-sprawl policy for proposed subdivisions
Separate plans would see more than 900 housing units, private school off Elmwood Drive
Shane Magee · CBC News · Posted: Aug 17, 2022 8:14 AM AT | Last Updated: 1 hour ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...rive-1.6553356


Subdivision entrance off of Elmwood Drive.


Eastgate Academy private school.


Locator map. The current municipal service boundary is shown by the yellow line.


Proposed street grid, including development phases.

Bill Budd, the city's director of planning and development, repeatedly described the plans as "premature." He said a transportation study of the Elmwood corridor about to begin and a city-wide land-use plan set to be completed next year.

Budd said so far the land-use study suggests there is enough land within the existing urban boundary for 16,100 new housing units expected to be needed to meet population demand over 25 years.

A sewer line along Elmwood would need to be upgraded to support any more than 100 homes.

Traffic was another concern with Elmwood already busy near Granite Drive. Widening Elmwood, adding traffic lights and the possibility of a new highway interchange at McLaughlin Drive were mentioned by Budd.

I appreciate Mr. Budd's comments, and his points are valid but previous city councils have already expanded the municipal service boundary for the Granite Centre, and the province forced the construction of Moncton High School in the general neighbourhood. Pandora's box has already been opened. If the government has already allowed important services to be located on these lands north of the TCH, then, by their very actions, they have made surrounding lands more attractive for development. This is a synergistic process. The cork is out of the bottle. Development is going to occur. The best we can do is to try and manage the development so that it is coherent, logical and not too disruptive.

[Nashe]

I understand what planning was getting at, but at the same time, this is a LOT closer to the city than the HS and Royal Oaks subdiv. It'd still be better inside the loop, but isn't the worst we've seen... That's just my 2c.

I def agree that it's gonna need to drive some improved infrastructure re: McLaughlin/Elmwood.

[Feneant]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It didn't work. City planning actually recommended against approval of this development because it requires an extension to the municipal service boundary, and, because it would detract from the development of more easily serviceable lands south of the TCH such as the "Vision Lands."

They tried to get the vision lands developed some years ago and it failed... we've also been hearing about how Crowley Farm would connect to Mapleton and it never developed, and I'm sure there's plenty more promised developments that have never happened around Moncton.

IMO Shawn Crossman is 100% correct, if this company believes they can get this developed, more power to them.

This part of the article made me laugh:

The municipal plan says when adding new areas to the urban boundary, the minimum should be 12 housing units per acre, though the Eastgate plan would only have 7.3 per acre when excluding the school.

The city clearly wants to see nothing but apartments or semis because 12 detached homes per acre gives you all of about 3700 feet per lot- why don't they just go ahead and flat out ban detached homes? There's a reason people are getting out of town and moving to the country, we don't all want to be piled on top of each other like cattle but it sounds like this is exactly what Moncton wants to happen.

[josh_cat_eyes]

None of this would have happened if the City would have never approved the Royal Oaks development all those years ago. The ironic thing is that isn’t still not even finished. The catalyst that broke the system is in turn also broken.

[Monctoncore]

Originally Posted by Sunnybrae

Don't mean to be a negative nilly but what is the point of stopping urban sprawl with policies adopted by the city, only to ignore them when someone flashes some cash? Couldn't this go inside the TCH?

I’m on the same page as you, the city has a massive area of land inside the TCH around the “vision lands that is suitable for this kind of development”. I’m not saying I’m against it, but I think there are better locations.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Is the site plan available for the other development on the other side of Elmwood Drive?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Is the site plan available for the other development on the other side of Elmwood Drive?

No. I don't think there is a formal plan, just an intent to eventually develop this property for residential purposes. According to the article, the owners have been intending on developing the property for 40 years or so, and the city has previously committed to expanding the municipal service boundary for them in the past, but permits lapsed and fees were not paid, and nothing happened.

The son is now in charge of developing this property, so perhaps things will now progress in a more coherent manner.

I expect it will be a more traditional subdivision, not the planned community that they seem to have in mind for Eastgate

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

I’m on the same page as you, the city has a massive area of land inside the TCH around the “vision lands that is suitable for this kind of development”. I’m not saying I’m against it, but I think there are better locations.

I agree with you the vision lands are there to be used, however, I wonder if it is easier/cheaper for the city to dig/prepare sewers/sidewalks etc out on the Irishtown road thsn on the vision lands. I have no idea if Elmwood drive is easier to construct the required infastructure, but they are allowing large developments ouut there first.

[MonctonRad]

The structural steel for the new retail strip in the Sobeys Plaza on Elmwood Drive has been erected. The only confirmed tenant so far is PetValu. There has been no movement yet on the adjacent standalone A&W.

[L'homard]

.

[josh_cat_eyes]

How much would the traffic on Elmwood Drive be helped by an extension of Mapleton Road to Ammon Road? I know that a significant amount of traffic uses this road to get from areas like Notre-Dame & Saint-Antoine to get into Moncton. If they had an alternative route this could help. Also if Longfellow Drive that Moncton High is located on was extended to McLaughlin as well as a connection to Royal Oaks Blvd, this might be all that is needed for now to mitigate the traffic issues in this area. Obviously an new interchange will be needed as well, but that was going to be needed as some point anyway.

Also does anybody have the original site plan for Royal oaks? Was there not supposed to be a connection to McLaughlin in it? Or at least roads that went in that direction?

[MonctonRad]

I recall an early site plan from Royal Oaks, and, yes, I believe there was an option for a connector to McLaughlin.

The site plan for the Eastgate subdivision above also shows a road (street "6"), heading in the direction of McLaughlin as well.

There will have to be increased connectivity between Elmwood and McLaughlin north of the TCH. McLaughlin will have to serve as a relief pressure valve for Elmwood. The Elmwood/TCH interchange is already extremely busy, even with the improvements made for the new Costco, and it won't take too much more to generate paralysis.

A new MacLaughlin/TCH interchange is a must too. This can no longer be ignored.

[MonctonRad]

Recently installed traffic lights at the Glengrove/Shediac Road intersection will begin flashing tomorrow. Full activation will be on August 30th.

[tmacdougall]

Is that a private residence or business between the two entrances of this proposed project. Seems to have a circular track in the back of the property.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

CBC article regarding the proposed Eastgate subdivision:

Moncton council opts to go against staff, anti-sprawl policy for proposed subdivisions
Separate plans would see more than 900 housing units, private school off Elmwood Drive
Shane Magee · CBC News · Posted: Aug 17, 2022 8:14 AM AT | Last Updated: 1 hour ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...rive-1.6553356


Subdivision entrance off of Elmwood Drive.


Eastgate Academy private school.


Locator map. The current municipal service boundary is shown by the yellow line.


Proposed street grid, including development phases.





I appreciate Mr. Budd's comments, and his points are valid but previous city councils have already expanded the municipal service boundary for the Granite Centre, and the province forced the construction of Moncton High School in the general neighbourhood. Pandora's box has already been opened. If the government has already allowed important services to be located on these lands north of the TCH, then, by their very actions, they have made surrounding lands more attractive for development. This is a synergistic process. The cork is out of the bottle. Development is going to occur. The best we can do is to try and manage the development so that it is coherent, logical and not too disruptive.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by tmacdougall

Is that a private residence or business between the two entrances of this proposed project. Seems to have a circular track in the back of the property.

I jus looked at it on 3D Google maps. It looks like a private residence. I imagine the track is for ATVs or whatnot.

Whatever. This property is going to be encircled by the Eastgate Village development. Given it's location, and that central pond, it's suddenly going to become a very valuable piece of land.

[Monctoncore]

That property is a residence, it’s been one of the most amazing Christmas displays for years. You could get out and walk around the yard and see all the different characters