Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Much more articulate than Justin Trudeau

Lol. Who isn't?




(That was a rhetorical question, but you'd be correct answering "Miss Teen South Carolina 2007".)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

if Wigs were born and raised Québécois (and therefore would have some of this place's unique quirks ingrained in him)

That's a bit too much of an "if".

Might as well say that "if" Wigs had been born and raised in a Weimar Germany bled dry by the extremely harsh provisions of the Versailles Treaty, he would have voted for Adolf Hitler.



The question is how Wigs would vote, not how Alternate-Universe-Wigs would vote

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

That's a bit too much of an "if".

Might as well say that "if" Wigs had been born and raised in a Weimar Germany bled dry by the extremely harsh provisions of the Versailles Treaty, he would have voted for Adolf Hitler.



The question is how Wigs would vote, not how Alternate-Universe-Wigs would vote

PLQ for sure, then.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

That said, Macron seems reasonably intelligent and literate (for a 2020s politician). I'm impressed.

Macron is haughty, and doesn't have a common touch. He's what we call "hors sol" in French, that's his problem. Parizeau in that interview didn't appear to me as "hors sol" and lacking common touch.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Macron is haughty, and doesn't have a common touch. He's what we call "hors sol" in French, that's his problem. Parizeau in that interview didn't appear to me as "hors sol" and lacking common touch.

I agree: Parizeau was very 'common man'. To the point of the filter that would have saved other politicians' skins was missing at key moments.

It was both his greatest asset and greatest flaw.

I do kind of want lobster for dinner now.

Edit: At least he had the good sense to keep his mouth mostly shut after he promised to leave politics.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

(That was a rhetorical question, but you'd be correct answering "Miss Teen South Carolina 2007".)

No, I would answer "the Donald". Although I must say, despite his despicable morality and behavior, Trump does have a certain businesslike common sense that is refreshing at times.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Macron is haughty, and doesn't have a common touch. He's what we call "hors sol" in French, that's his problem. Parizeau in that interview didn't appear to me as "hors sol" and lacking common touch.

Emmanuel Macron is probably the most statesman-like, intellectual, sophisticated world leader of all of the world leaders I follow at the moment.

But yes he is very out of touch with the average person.

He is fairly unique right now in terms of the first characteristics, but not unique at all for the second ones.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Emmanuel Macron is probably the most statesman-like, intellectual, sophisticated world leader of all of the world leaders I follow at the moment.

But yes he is very out of touch with the average person.

He is fairly unique right now in terms of the first characteristics, but not unique at all for the second ones.

I'm trying to think of recent world leaders that had both characteristics: in-touch and intellectual at the same time.

Barack Obama? Jean Chretien? Bill Clinton? Any other ones? The list from European leaders is harder: Tony Blair maybe, but I'm mostly too out of touch for a comprehensive list.

I'm getting old.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

No, I would answer "the Donald". Although I must say, despite his despicable morality and behavior, Trump does have a certain businesslike common sense that is refreshing at times.

I find Trump to be a much better orator than Trudeau, but again, that’s an extraordinarily low bar.

I agree on the refreshing businesslike common sense too. And on the despicable morality/behavior.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I'm trying to think of recent world leaders that had both characteristics.

Barack Obama? Jean Chretien? Bill Clinton? Any other ones? The list from European leaders is harder: Tony Blair maybe, but I'm mostly too out of touch for a comprehensive list.

I'm getting old.

Chrétien sophisticated?!?!?

Also, I’d put Hillary on your short list. (Having said that, I realized you were listing elected leaders only so that’s probably why you left her off the list.)

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by lio45

Chrétien sophisticated?!?

Surprisingly, despite his humble origins.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Surprisingly, despite his humble origins.

I figured we were discussing absolute sophistication, not relative sophistication weighted by uncouthness of origins

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by lio45

Chrétien sophisticated?!?!?

Also, I’d put Hillary on your short list. (Having said that, I realized you were listing elected leaders only so that’s probably why you left her off the list.)

This where I'd actually disagree with you.

Hillary is not 'in-touch' with the Average Joe of her country, but could be a sophisticated leader.

Bill was far more close to that mark of being 'in-touch' and 'sophisticated leader' at the same time. Barack Obama was the most clear example in more recent times for the United States.

[lio45]

That’s why I was disagreeing with most of your list The way I followed the conversation, the two characteristics we’re discussing is 1) intellectual and 2) out of touch with common folk. As Acajack said, the latter isn’t rare (Trudeau, Trump, etc.) but the former nowadays is less common than it used to.

In other words, Hillary is an example of Macron-like.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by lio45

That’s why I was disagreeing with most of your list The way I followed the conversation, the two characteristics we’re discussing is 1) intellectual and 2) out of touch with common folk. As Acajack said, the latter isn’t rare (Trudeau, Trump, etc.) but the former nowadays is less common than it used to.

In other words, Hillary is another example of Macron-like.

Heh. I suppose I was unclear on that one.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Surprisingly, despite his humble origins.

I feel the same way as Lio.

Unless people believe that the little guy (petit gars de) from Shawinigan was all an act.

It was probably partly an act, and partly real.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It was probably partly an act, and partly real.

Which would seem to agree with my assessment, no?

If one can know how to balance the 'in-touch' appearance with Average Joe with the 'intellectual' aspect of being a statesman-like world leader, that's a rare bird.

Western European leaders strike me as more the 'intellectual' side, much less worried about the Average Joe of their country. However, I am not a local and can't truly say. Do they put on a 'face' that their countrymen only see? Probably.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I agree: Parizeau was very 'common man'. To the point of the filter that would have saved other politicians' skins was missing at key moments.

It was both his greatest asset and greatest flaw.

I do kind of want lobster for dinner now.

Edit: At least he had the good sense to keep his mouth mostly shut after he promised to leave politics.

I would have said the epitome of "U" rather than "common man". His anglophilia left a strange impression.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by lio45

That's a bit too much of an "if".

Might as well say that "if" Wigs had been born and raised in a Weimar Germany bled dry by the extremely harsh provisions of the Versailles Treaty, he would have voted for Adolf Hitler.



The question is how Wigs would vote, not how Alternate-Universe-Wigs would vote

I'm dying

Yes I voted Libs/Trudeau in 2015, but voted for NDP most recent election. Like most politicians Trudeau failed to follow through on many policies promised.
It's not uncommon in my region to alternate between those parties and some, in my political ideology cohort, even have voted Conservative in decades past, my father included (Provincially at least). Although like a Trump voter long removed he'll never publicly admit to that )

Thanks for the hypothetical assessments. You both made me chuckle.

[thurmas]

With this likely Legault's last election who in the CAQ caucus would likely be his heir apparent ?