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  #1421  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2024, 1:39 PM
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As with many things I think the blowback is related more to implementation than the concepts themselves. Green programs that have a tangible economic benefit to the average Canadian would not be particularly controversial. Similarly if the development of our resources was undertaken in a manner where the benefits could be seen to actually have a positive impact on our standard of living.

And generally speaking a lot of these extreme views tend to calm down when the basics are adequately covered. It will only get worse if the trends in housing continue.
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  #1422  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2024, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
I would never vote for Mad Max and his unmerry band of xenophobes.
One has to pick between skyrocketing homelessness + reliable year-after-year real estate gains for the Landed Gentry, and being a massive-arrival-of-Fresh-New-Suckers-phobe. It's pretty much a binary situation -- can't escape nor deny the basic laws of Supply and Demand.
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  #1423  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2024, 3:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
We don't have a regular housing crisis based on supply & demand but rather a manufactured housing crisis brought about by successive gov't policies and particularly Trudeau.
It goes a lot farther back to Mulroney and Chretien and their pulling out of any sort of federal homebuilding programs. We're decades behind housing supply because of their neo-liberal policies.
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  #1424  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2024, 3:46 PM
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
I don't think the headline says extreme xenophobia is more popular than extreme green views. For one the Trudeau government is already implementing an extreme green platform. Purposely destroying our economy at the alter of climate change. I think we all see the undercurrent in the PPC but their actual platform was probably ahead of its time and is fairly mainstream at this point that we need a massive reduction in immigration. That is the only solution we will never build enough houses when we add a million people a year.

The PPC also benefitted from anti vaxxers more than anything.
Beats the Harper government goal of Purposely destroying our ecology at the alter of economic growth
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  #1425  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2024, 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
One has to pick between skyrocketing homelessness + reliable year-after-year real estate gains for the Landed Gentry, and being a massive-arrival-of-Fresh-New-Suckers-phobe. It's pretty much a binary situation -- can't escape nor deny the basic laws of Supply and Demand.
What are you talking about?

And besides, based on your past pronouncements, you are probably voting Bloc rather than for Peevish Polyester or Mad Max. So don't try to lecture people on what you see as "black and white choices" apparently facing our country.

Xenophobia is absolutely a deal-killer for me (and it should be for every decent person).

From a PPC candidate:



And from another PPC candidate:


And from the man himself, back when Greta Thunberg was 15 years old:


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  #1426  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2024, 4:36 PM
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What are you talking about?
I'm pointing out that the only way to "solve the housing crisis" (assuming of course that a housing crisis is a bug, rather than a feature, and therefore assuming that it's not true that the government wishes to make the housing crisis worse because a housing crisis is great -- which IMO is an incorrect assumption), is to become FNS-phobic.
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  #1427  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2024, 6:39 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
Purposely destroying our economy at the alter of climate change.
Evidence of this supposed economic destruction?

Their choices have reduced quality of life for people. That doesn't mean the economy has suffered. And the links to environmental policies are even more tenuous. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'll wait for yours.
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  #1428  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2024, 7:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CanSpice View Post
It goes a lot farther back to Mulroney and Chretien and their pulling out of any sort of federal homebuilding programs. We're decades behind housing supply because of their neo-liberal policies.
I agree which is why I said successive governments.

Trudeau has, however, made the situation exponentially worse by opening up the floodgates to immigration. Before his reign of terror, there was a general agreement between the Liberals and Tories that the population should roughly grow by 1% per year and that figure had been essentially followed thru on by both parties over the last 20 but then Trudeau came along and threw that convention straight out the window.

Before he came to power, Canadian home prices were over valued by not by the grotesque amount they are today. Most of the country was still affordable in both rentals and real estate outside of BC but BC has had a policy of making the province as exclusive as possible by ridiculous zoning and gov'ts that were more than willing to accept foreign money and money laundering into the housing market to keep the economy rolling.
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  #1429  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2024, 12:32 PM
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I have repeatedly said on here that one of the biggest issues with the Greenbelt was that it was unconditional. And this example just highlights that:

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  #1430  
Old Posted Yesterday, 2:25 AM
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City of Calgary is debating a rezoning to allow multiplexes city-wide. Boomer NIMBYS, predictably, are mad.


Quote:
Mind the generation gap in Calgary's debate over zoning and townhouses

Council hearing shows split between older and younger, haves and have-nots

Jason Markusoff · CBC News · Posted: Apr 27, 2024 1:00 AM PDT | Last Updated: April 27



It was gearing up to be a battle for the ages: Calgary's big rezoning debate over permitting fourplexes in any and all neighbourhoods in the city, with hundreds of speakers expressing opinions across more than a week of hearings at city hall.

It has often appeared as a battle of the ages. It's hard not to notice the generation gap between the Calgarians fighting for the change, and those fighting against it.

One didn't even need to step inside city hall chambers or flip on the hearing's livestream to see the apparent differences.

In the plaza outside city hall on Monday morning as the public hearings began, a few dozen community association activists from the city's various corners wagged signs and sported black-and-white buttons that said, "NO Blanket Rezoning YYC."

At noon that day, another crowd gathered to demonstrate in favour of the measure recommended by Calgary's affordable housing task force, many carrying a political action group's placards saying, "All Calgarians deserve homes."

This was a noticeably younger group, more millennials and Gen Zs.

As the debate unfolded, one could crudely split the debating lines into younger or older, or into the haves and have-nots. The divide is between those who have and don't have homes they own.

Many Calgarians opposed to the plan were homeowners, worried about the zoning that could come to their own neighbourhoods, if one could develop duplexes, townhouses or row houses in almost any residential district.

...

The residents who support citywide rezoning often aren't homeowners, but hope to be. They'd like more of a chance to join those neighbourhoods the others are scrapping to preserve as is, without the potential upheaval of subdivided lots for extra homes.

Disruption? Change? Potential for struggles to find guest parking on one's block? "That doesn't supersede the need to have a roof over our head," Alex Williams said in an interview.

...

One speaker was rankled by the very fact that renters were injecting their voices into this debate. Others who came out in favour of rezoning warned of the disproportionate privilege of older homeowners who bought property well before prices spiralled out of reach for many.

The age gap was so pronounced to some speakers that one older southwest homeowner made a point of saying she wanted to "break the stereotype that every boomer is opposed to rezoning." She supported expanding options to build small multi-family developments in communities like hers.

At stake in this debate, in essence, is the abolition of R-1 zoning, which only allows detached homes, and is the dominant neighbourhood mode in Calgary.

Instead of R-1 or R-2 (which allows duplexes, too), the default district would be R-CG — the grade-oriented infill district. It would allow townhouses or row houses, up to four units on a 50-foot lot, plus potentially basement suites and even backyard units — totalling eight or 12 dwellings where a single bungalow currently sits.

...

In northwest Calgary, the median price for a detached home is $761,000 this year, according to the Calgary Real Estate Board. For a row house, it's $477,000.

And that's a world that has changed so much over the decades. In 1990, the average Calgary detached house cost $131,000. The median price for standalone houses sailed past $200,000 in 2002, broke $400,000 in 2007 — and then came the pandemic. In the last four years, that price has shot up by about 50 per cent to $718,400 this March, for the typical detached house, which remains the most plentiful housing type in Calgary, and the only offering available in much of the city.

Some homeowners fretted that this zoning change would sink their property values. After this much increase, that might sound like sweet music to those young Calgarians for whom a $700,000 house, its down payment and monthly mortgage costs, remain far out of reach.

A common argument came from residents opposed to this change: what's the point, if tearing down an old house and replacing it with a few brand-new townhouses or fourplex units won't actually create anything remotely classified as affordable housing? (And yet, so many of the critics also worry these new homes will bring crime and ne'er-do-wells into their midst.)

The response from advocates is that it all adds supply to a supply-starved, demand-heavy and rapidly growing city. More homes of all types will help keep increases in check.

...

Coun. Jasmine Mian says this debate appears to have the biggest generational divide of anything she's handled in her first term on council, the young pushing for housing choice and change, and older homeowners concerned about the future of their property asset and how congested their neighbourhoods might get.

"It is a battle of generations that I think is going to put council in a very interesting position about what do we do for the future of our city," said Mian.

She, along with Mayor Jyoti Gondek, are among a slim majority on council whose past votes suggest they'll likely support rezoning — and many, like Mian, are among the youngest councillors.
Full article: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ysis-1.7186852
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  #1431  
Old Posted Yesterday, 3:17 AM
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Originally Posted by goodgrowth View Post
I have repeatedly said on here that one of the biggest issues with the Greenbelt was that it was unconditional. And this example just highlights that:


The basic problem with housing in Canada is that we have:
  • Significant & costly restrictions on infill redevelopment.
  • Significant & costly restrictions on greenfield expansion.
  • Extremely high population growth rates.

The contradictory demands that these factors impose are enough to create the perfect storm of bad housing policy; but then just to top it off we pour even more fuel on the fire by also having:
  • Very little spending on public housing relative to our peers.
  • Low taxes & investment rules that induce demand & favour using real estate as a speculative investment instead of just a place to live.

In other words, you're right - we can't just limit sprawl without adjusting the other levers accordingly and expect to maintain a healthy housing market. Either one of the first three factors needs to give, or all 3 (in combination with the latter 2) need to be tinkered with to restore some sort of equilibrium. At the opposite extreme, "fixing" all of them all would turn housing into a depreciating asset.

So, it can, in theory be a logically coherent position to oppose both infill and sprawl if one also accepts stagnant population growth, for example. Personally, I prefer a more balanced approach though: moderate growth rates while making both infill and greenfield development rules somewhat easier, but still protecting ecologically sensitive and agriculturally important areas.
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  #1432  
Old Posted Yesterday, 4:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
City of Calgary is debating a rezoning to allow multiplexes city-wide. Boomer NIMBYS, predictably, are mad.




Full article: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ysis-1.7186852
Reminds me of here in metro Vancouver, we have people protesting against transit oriented development. Y’all think it’s sustainable to have single family houses around high frequency train stations like Vancouver’s Skytrain? What a joke.
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  #1433  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:44 PM
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I'm starting to think the only way we are going to get ourselves out of this mess is for a population DECLINE. That means no applications for students, TFW, refugees, or family reunifications and all current "temporary" RW & students be given 1 year to leave the country as they are suppose to be temporary in the first place. Skilled immigrants would only be allowed in only less than 100,000 and only in very high demand areas.

With the number of TFW and students we have in the country currently, that would result in a million vacant homes/apts/rooms all of a sudden being vacant. It would also take a million people out of our healthcare & education systems so Canadians can actually take advantage of the services they have paid for.

Certainly it wouldn't have to be permanent and can be loosened up after a couple years but until such a time when rental/real estate prices have come down to Earth and we have an actual surplus of housing, we must put Canadians first and that means a categoric no to those wanting to enter the country and those who are here "temporarily".

Seems radical but it's not really. Canada for Canadians and once our needs are met then the foreigners can apply.
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  #1434  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I'm starting to think the only way we are going to get ourselves out of this mess is for a population DECLINE. That means no applications for students, TFW, refugees, or family reunifications and all current "temporary" RW & students be given 1 year to leave the country as they are suppose to be temporary in the first place. Skilled immigrants would only be allowed in only less than 100,000 and only in very high demand areas.

With the number of TFW and students we have in the country currently, that would result in a million vacant homes/apts/rooms all of a sudden being vacant. It would also take a million people out of our healthcare & education systems so Canadians can actually take advantage of the services they have paid for.

Certainly it wouldn't have to be permanent and can be loosened up after a couple years but until such a time when rental/real estate prices have come down to Earth and we have an actual surplus of housing, we must put Canadians first and that means a categoric no to those wanting to enter the country and those who are here "temporarily".

Seems radical but it's not really. Canada for Canadians and once our needs are met then the foreigners can apply.
There is absolutely no way this will happen. The international students and TFW are here for good, and we don't have the ability to deport 1-2 million people. This is going to an issue that plagues us for decades.

Anyhow, I've posted a few times about how the Liberal's "plan" of building their way out of this financially impossible. That narrative is finally starting to make the rounds in the mainstream media:


Globe and Mail: The Trudeau government’s promise of 3.87 million new homes is next to impossible


Quote:
I asked Mike Moffatt, an economist who has advised the government on housing, what he thought of the work force challenge. “Labour shortages won’t be the issue,” he wrote in an e-mail. “The sector will run out of capital before it runs out of labour.”

That’s because Canada’s economy is already heavily tilted to residential real estate. Last year, 8 per cent of Canada’s gross domestic product came from homebuilding. That’s double the U.S. level. It’s nearly double the average of countries in the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development.
“An extra two million homes will require at least an additional $1-trillion in investment,” wrote Mr. Moffatt. “A trillion dollars isn’t exactly easy to come by.”
An extraordinarily high share of our national wealth is already invested in housing rather than in productive business assets. In 2022, 37.9 per cent of Canada’s gross fixed capital formation – investment in assets – was tied up in dwellings. That’s the highest level in the OECD.
Also important to mention that the Liberals target of 3.87 million home barely gets us halfway to the CMHC target.
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  #1435  
Old Posted Today, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I'm starting to think the only way we are going to get ourselves out of this mess is for a population DECLINE. That means no applications for students, TFW, refugees, or family reunifications and all current "temporary" RW & students be given 1 year to leave the country as they are suppose to be temporary in the first place. Skilled immigrants would only be allowed in only less than 100,000 and only in very high demand areas.

With the number of TFW and students we have in the country currently, that would result in a million vacant homes/apts/rooms all of a sudden being vacant. It would also take a million people out of our healthcare & education systems so Canadians can actually take advantage of the services they have paid for.

Certainly it wouldn't have to be permanent and can be loosened up after a couple years but until such a time when rental/real estate prices have come down to Earth and we have an actual surplus of housing, we must put Canadians first and that means a categoric no to those wanting to enter the country and those who are here "temporarily".

Seems radical but it's not really. Canada for Canadians and once our needs are met then the foreigners can apply.
Ignoring everything else that I think are bad morally about that suggestion. Are you willing to accept a decrease in your home price? Do you think Canadian homeowners in general are willing to see their home values decrease? How much decrease are you and what you think average Canadians willing to accept? You can look at Japan as an example where their real estate depreciate.
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  #1436  
Old Posted Today, 12:06 AM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I'm starting to think the only way we are going to get ourselves out of this mess is for a population DECLINE. That means no applications for students, TFW, refugees, or family reunifications and all current "temporary" RW & students be given 1 year to leave the country as they are suppose to be temporary in the first place. Skilled immigrants would only be allowed in only less than 100,000 and only in very high demand areas.

With the number of TFW and students we have in the country currently, that would result in a million vacant homes/apts/rooms all of a sudden being vacant. It would also take a million people out of our healthcare & education systems so Canadians can actually take advantage of the services they have paid for.

Certainly it wouldn't have to be permanent and can be loosened up after a couple years but until such a time when rental/real estate prices have come down to Earth and we have an actual surplus of housing, we must put Canadians first and that means a categoric no to those wanting to enter the country and those who are here "temporarily".

Seems radical but it's not really. Canada for Canadians and once our needs are met then the foreigners can apply.
Agreed. If housing is our biggest problem this will solve it almost overnight. There could be a lot of unintended consequences though. An economic contraction for starters. Both would lead to rate cuts that would further help end users even if rental demand collapses. With the Liberals dead man walking seems like its worth a try but there is no way a new conservative government is risking that. Boomers like their housing piggy banks.
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  #1437  
Old Posted Today, 1:57 AM
905er 905er is offline
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Stop letting so many international students come over, and maybe focus on housing for the people who are legitimately here already. Enough is enough!
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  #1438  
Old Posted Today, 2:24 AM
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There would indeed be economic consequences and over the short-term we would see GDP fall but per-capita it's been falling for years so it won't be as bad as many make it out to be.

That said, a falling per-capita GDP in this case does not necessarily mean a lower standard of living. Hundreds of thousands of Canadians would be able to move into affordable housing and all of our homeless would be able to get housing. Canadians would also enjoy much higher levels of discretionary spending due to not having to spend half their income on their rent/mortgages. Also, without businesses being able to just import cheap labour, they would actually have to raise wages to get workers and/or invest in technology and upgrade skills so the economy grows in a way that increases our productivity and hence wages over the long-term as opposed to getting poorer every single year.

We need a population decline for at least a couple years. NO one should be allowed into the country, except the very few who are highly skilled in much needed occupations, until EVERYONE in Canada has a decent and affordable roof over their heads.

If a country as potentially wealthy as Canada can't even house it's own people then we have failed as a nation and if it is said by our politicians and/or landed gentry that it is not possible then they are lying thru their teeth.

If we were to refuse any new TFW/students/refugee claims/family reunification and only let in one-quarter the number of immigrants we take in now while simultaneously giving all our over 1 million "temporary" residents the boot, we could solve this problem tomorrow.
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  #1439  
Old Posted Today, 3:01 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
One has to pick between skyrocketing homelessness + reliable year-after-year real estate gains for the Landed Gentry, and being a massive-arrival-of-Fresh-New-Suckers-phobe. It's pretty much a binary situation -- can't escape nor deny the basic laws of Supply and Demand.
Too many here forget the Demand part. And heaven forfend if you question what drives it.
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  #1440  
Old Posted Today, 5:08 AM
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Stop letting so many international students come over, and maybe focus on housing for the people who are legitimately here already. Enough is enough!
This has been changed already.

The feds have changed the rules. An international student applying for a visa must present a letter from the province accepting their application and certifying it is a valid program.

The feds are also implementing caps on how many letter each province can write each year.
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