Tempe Development Thread

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by combusean

The above document implies the previous project was too tall for the airport. It's 30 ft shorter than what Phoenix requested, which is enough to squeeze a tower crane in the airspace above without anyone complaining.

Tempe needs to get their shit together and deny projects that are going to cause problems with the airport.

Anybody know exactly what the issue is with height limits as far away (relative, I know) as dt Tempe? I ask bc other major airports in the nation that come to mind - San Diego, Reagan National, Miami) are just as close if not closer to their dt's. I mean, flying into SD it seems like you're barely 300 feet above the nearest tower. I'm way off I know but planes have got to be a good 1,500 feet as they fly over dt Tempe. I just don't understand the militancy here...although there's no questioning the importance/economic significance of Sky Harbor and safety being paramount for all. Is this just perception or is this area way more conservative on bldg heights for flight path???

[combusean]

^ I'm going to take a wild shot in the dark and suggest that the towers that crowd other airports wouldn't be built as tall today with modern safety standards.

The big thing for Sky Harbor is not how planes operate regularly, but how they would operate in an emergency. To clear the same obstruction in what I assume were engine-down situations, the planes couldn't be loaded to the same extent they were previously. That would make flights out of Sky Harbor more costly/less profitable and reduce the desirability of the airport to serve as any airline's hub.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by combusean

^ I'm going to take a wild shot in the dark and suggest that the towers that crowd other airports wouldn't be built as tall today with modern safety standards.

The big thing for Sky Harbor is not how planes operate regularly, but how they would operate in an emergency. To clear the same obstruction in what I assume were engine-down situations, the planes couldn't be loaded to the same extent they were previously. That would make flights out of Sky Harbor more costly/less profitable and reduce the desirability of the airport to serve as any airline's hub.

Yes - the emergency scenario is part of it. That’s why the Cardinal’s Stadium across the lake was ultimately scuttled.

However - I thought PHX & the FAA agreed that ‘A Mountain’ was the max height - which is why Tempe set a max height at 300ft. Did that change at some point recently? Just seems to me that the site is so close to A Mountain that if a plane had an emergency - it’d have trouble with that mountain/butte before any of those buildings...

[somethingfast]

interesting points up there, thanks. i might be mistaken but i think the taller condo tower in Tempe is more like 350'...def taller than 300' i think. SH's significance is unquestioned so it all makes sense...but long-term hub position seems very unlikely. never thought the feds should have approved AA-USA merger personally. hometown airline make good and then gets absorbed into less operationally successful airlines...then gets exported to big D...not cool.

[combusean]

The first phase of Centerpoint/W6 was built before the 300' limit. I have never heard anything about FAA, Tempe, and Phoenix agreeing on anything on paper...I would assume something like that would be codified in airport height zoning maps or something similar.

Emergency operations mostly affects takeoff, so while A mountain is taller, A mountain would get the brunt of a supposed crash/impact/graze/boom and shorter towers would be in the clear.

[vandypandybear]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

Anybody know exactly what the issue is with height limits as far away (relative, I know) as dt Tempe? I ask bc other major airports in the nation that come to mind - San Diego, Reagan National, Miami) are just as close if not closer to their dt's. I mean, flying into SD it seems like you're barely 300 feet above the nearest tower. I'm way off I know but planes have got to be a good 1,500 feet as they fly over dt Tempe. I just don't understand the militancy here...although there's no questioning the importance/economic significance of Sky Harbor and safety being paramount for all. Is this just perception or is this area way more conservative on bldg heights for flight path???

The go around route for planes landing at Sky Harbor is directly over Marina Heights & the 100 Mill site.

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by vandypandybear

The go around route for planes landing at Sky Harbor is directly over Marina Heights & the 100 Mill site.

yep, see, the plot thickens. i just don't see how building to even, say, 500' matters at all...but apparently it does. i would think all emergency plans involve ditching (God forbid of course) in the rio salado if possible. i mean they are either right over it or nearly over it the entire approach from east side below 2,000' i imagine.

[azsunsurfer]

I went by The Grand yesterday and they are not using a traditional highrise kangaroo crane like in some of the buildings downtown. They are about on the 5th/ 6th story already. Like many midrises they are just using a traditional haul crane to raise the floor pieces after each floor is poured. I am noticing more builders are doing this probably to cut down on the need for th expensive crane. Also the garage is just about done. This one should be topped off by the end of the year. Also the elevator shafts are up for the apartments going in next door.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

yep, see, the plot thickens. i just don't see how building to even, say, 500' matters at all...but apparently it does. i would think all emergency plans involve ditching (God forbid of course) in the rio salado if possible. i mean they are either right over it or nearly over it the entire approach from east side below 2,000' i imagine.

I seriously doubt that is true. I don't think airports build in water landings into their emergency plans. It is much more dangerous than foaming up the runway in case of say a landing gear failure. Many airports don't have water nearby.

This is more of the case the other poster shared about a go around procedure. When a plane is getting low and determines they will not be able to land due to one reason or another and must quickly climb back up rather than land. This could be technical or weather related.

[MegaBass]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

[IMG][/IMG]

3. ASU and Tempe are going to complete a land swap that results in the ditch next to the Rural light rail stop being deeded to ASU to facilitate construction of ISTB-7.



[IMG][/IMG]

Studio Ma renderings of ISTB 7

[ASU Diablo]

^^^

Although those renderings look gorgeous, ASU unfortunately went with another developer/architect. Escapes me who the winning bid was but wasn't Studio Ma. Was discussed a couple of pages back...

[stutteringpunk]

I just want a Lightrail tunnel.

Please

[ASUSunDevil]

Originally Posted by airomero83

^^^Although those renderings look gorgeous, ASU unfortunately went with another developer/architect. Escapes me who the winning bid was but wasn't Studio Ma. Was discussed a couple of pages back...

Are you sure?

https://www.bdcnetwork.com/new-arizo...ro-performance

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

Are you sure?

https://www.bdcnetwork.com/new-arizo...ro-performance

Yep
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show....php?p=8169168

[soled]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I seriously doubt that is true. I don't think airports build in water landings into their emergency plans. It is much more dangerous than foaming up the runway in case of say a landing gear failure. Many airports don't have water nearby.

This is more of the case the other poster shared about a go around procedure. When a plane is getting low and determines they will not be able to land due to one reason or another and must quickly climb back up rather than land. This could be technical or weather related.

An averted crash scenario would involve the dry riverbed of the Salt River, not the Rio Salado lake. There are contingency plans in place for this; including established access for ARFF personnel.

[asugrad]

Originally Posted by airomero83

Yep
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show....php?p=8169168

There is a picture of ISTB 7 on this ASU brochure...Its honestly kinda ugly if this is what its going to be, especially for such a big intersection.

https://president.asu.edu/sites/defa...chure_2017.pdf

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by asugrad

There is a picture of ISTB 7 on this ASU brochure...Its honestly kinda ugly if this is what its going to be, especially for such a big intersection.

https://president.asu.edu/sites/defa...chure_2017.pdf

Building fugly buildings has been a college tradition since the early 1960's Who are we to stop such a long history of poor decessions?

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by soled

An averted crash scenario would involve the dry riverbed of the Salt River, not the Rio Salado lake. There are contingency plans in place for this; including established access for ARFF personnel.

Was thinking Salt River by typed Rio Salado. yeah, the dry riverbed makes perfect sense but who knows in reality if that would make any difference.

[soled]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

Was thinking Salt River by typed Rio Salado. yeah, the dry riverbed makes perfect sense but who knows in reality if that would make any difference.

By 'make any difference', do you mean between a dry riverbed and the lake?

[vandypandybear]

Originally Posted by asugrad

There is a picture of ISTB 7 on this ASU brochure...Its honestly kinda ugly if this is what its going to be, especially for such a big intersection.

https://president.asu.edu/sites/defa...chure_2017.pdf

This is not what ISTB 7 will look like. That brochure was posted in 2017. The winning firm (Architekton) was awarded the contract in January this year.


Just an FYI, the below design teams submitted proposals for the Wells Fargo + Multipurpose Arena project:

- Architekton+Hok
- Ayers Saint Gross+Populous
- DLR Group+Rossetti
- Generator Studio+Lightvox
- Gensler
- Gould Evans+Crawford
- HKS
- Holly Street Studios+Moody Nolan
- RSP+Perkins Will

Hopefully ASU picks one of the creative designs.