Centre de la Francophonie | Proposed

[Colin May]

A new Francophone project proposal would see Universite St Anne open a new campus in downtown/peninsula Halifax along with a community centre and a new Francophone school.
The project seems well suited to a Canada/Nova Scotia/HRM infrastructure project

This link provides more information, see paage 2 : http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/SCcp...nts/141009.pdf

Not sure where this project would be located but it is substantial and according to the minutes of the October 9 2014 meeting " In terms of the actual building, Mr. Chaission indicated that they are in the concept design stage but that they would be looking for something that has considerably large square footage and on the Peninsula, as being located near the university sector is key to their plans. "

St Pats on Quinpool may be suitable ; 3.5 acres in a prominent central location and close to Dalhousie University.

The issue is before HRM council tomorrow, February 3 2015, see here :
http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...0203ca1162.pdf

See how fast you can detect the BS in the request from Dartmouth councillor, and federal Liberal candidate, Darren Fisher.
(Normally it is possible to cut and paste portions of an agenda document but this is not the case in this instance, you'll have to use the link. )

As I wrote in a recent post on the King's Wharf project, a good proposal can stand on its own merits without the use of hype.

This link may be required if your BS detector is not working :
https://acadien.novascotia.ca/en/community

[hokus83]

Personally think Downtown Dartmouth along Queen street would be the most ideal location for a University looking for a new campus location, theres probably at least 20 acres in wasted development space that is either parking lots or dirt fields or mix it in with Dartmouth Cove. Large areas that seem to be over looked as central locations. I don't think its smart planning to lump every education institution in one location around each other. A large Student influx would benefit Downtown Dartmouth a lot more than adding some where we already have a lot.

[Hali87]

This is fantastic, I've always thought we should be doing more here to promote bilingualism and make the city a more attractive place for Francophones and Franco/bilingual-oriented businesses. USA (ok, maybe that's not a great acronym) has been operating a small satellite campus near Howe Hall for a few years out of an old public school building (the old Beaufort, I think?); having a more visible campus, with a public school component, will be nice (and will theoretically encourage Francophones to settle in the core, counterbalancing the nudge towards the Larry Uteck area brought on by the Francophone public schools there).

I can see how establishing this in Dartmouth would be good for Dartmouth, but I think in terms of the school(s) itself, there would be more of an advantage setting up near Dal; easier for faculty and students to work at/attend classes at both that way. I guess ultimately it will probably depend on where they can find space.

See how fast you can detect the BS in the request from Dartmouth councillor, and federal Liberal candidate, Darren Fisher.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Is it the "base of 45,000 Acadians, Fracophones and Fracophiles?" Because that sounds plausible to me.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by hokus83

Personally think Downtown Dartmouth along Queen street would be the most ideal location for a University looking for a new campus location, theres probably at least 20 acres in wasted development space that is either parking lots or dirt fields or mix it in with Dartmouth Cove. Large areas that seem to be over looked as central locations. I don't think its smart planning to lump every education institution in one location around each other. A large Student influx would benefit Downtown Dartmouth a lot more than adding some where we already have a lot.

I think in 5-10 years, that would be attractive for the school. But honestly, I could see why moving downtown Dartmouth right now, would be much less attractive. The area is just starting to turn things around, but it's still pretty dead and rundown.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Colin May

A new Francophone project proposal would see Universite St Anne open a new campus in downtown/peninsula Halifax along with a community centre and a new Francophone school.
The project seems well suited to a Canada/Nova Scotia/HRM infrastructure project

This link provides more information, see paage 2 : http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/SCcp...nts/141009.pdf

Not sure where this project would be located but it is substantial and according to the minutes of the October 9 2014 meeting " In terms of the actual building, Mr. Chaission indicated that they are in the concept design stage but that they would be looking for something that has considerably large square footage and on the Peninsula, as being located near the university sector is key to their plans. "

St Pats on Quinpool may be suitable ; 3.5 acres in a prominent central location and close to Dalhousie University.

The issue is before HRM council tomorrow, February 3 2015, see here :
http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...0203ca1162.pdf

See how fast you can detect the BS in the request from Dartmouth councillor, and federal Liberal candidate, Darren Fisher.
(Normally it is possible to cut and paste portions of an agenda document but this is not the case in this instance, you'll have to use the link. )

As I wrote in a recent post on the King's Wharf project, a good proposal can stand on its own merits without the use of hype.

This link may be required if your BS detector is not working :
https://acadien.novascotia.ca/en/community

This is a phenomenal development. Just fantastic. And surprised why it took St. Anne so long to locate or even re-locate into Halifax. This is big for the city, because often to attract talent from other parts of Canada, you need to have this kind of capacity in place. Some people from Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto, will want to live in an area where their kids can attend a good bilingual school. Excellent news.

Something close to Dalhousie makes absolutely the most sense. I also wonder if there isn't some room around SGR (isn't there a plot of land / parking lots that Dalhousie owns there?).

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Hali87

This is fantastic, I've always thought we should be doing more here to promote bilingualism and make the city a more attractive place for Francophones and Franco/bilingual-oriented businesses. USA (ok, maybe that's not a great acronym) has been operating a small satellite campus near Howe Hall for a few years out of an old public school building (the old Beaufort, I think?); having a more visible campus, with a public school component, will be nice (and will theoretically encourage Francophones to settle in the core, counterbalancing the nudge towards the Larry Uteck area brought on by the Francophone public schools there).

I can see how establishing this in Dartmouth would be good for Dartmouth, but I think in terms of the school(s) itself, there would be more of an advantage setting up near Dal; easier for faculty and students to work at/attend classes at both that way. I guess ultimately it will probably depend on where they can find space.



I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Is it the "base of 45,000 Acadians, Fracophones and Fracophiles?" Because that sounds plausible to me.

Exactly. I just can't see St. Anne's having any interest in located in downtown Dartmouth right now. Maybe 5-10 years down the road. But right now, something close to Dal makes the most sense.

[Keith P.]

There are currently about 500 students at College Ste-Anne according to Wiki. Given the state of the province I question why we even had it. Expanding their facilities into HRM seems like lunacy. We also have far too many universities/colleges in NS.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

There are currently about 500 students at College Ste-Anne according to Wiki. Given the state of the province I question why we even had it. Expanding their facilities into HRM seems like lunacy. We also have far too many universities/colleges in NS.

I suspect they're not "Expanding" to HRM. I bet they will fully re-locate there, and close other parts of it.

[hokus83]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

There are currently about 500 students at College Ste-Anne according to Wiki. Given the state of the province I question why we even had it. Expanding their facilities into HRM seems like lunacy. We also have far too many universities/colleges in NS.

TOO MANY! LOL

You do realize most cities have just as many or more under the umbrella of the places name with most of them having 100s of thousands of students

[Ziobrop]

Originally Posted by hokus83

TOO MANY! LOL

You do realize most cities have just as many or more under the umbrella of the places name with most of them having 100s of thousands of students

Halifax has the highest per capita concentration of post secondary students of any city in Canada. I know Keith just sees them as wasting tax money but eh. Diversity of institutions is a good thing.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

Halifax has the highest per capita concentration of post secondary students of any city in Canada. I know Keith just sees them as wasting tax money but eh. Diversity of institutions is a good thing.

Unlike the b/s "tourism" industry, the university students are here almost year round and spend all their rich Ontarian parents money. It may be the biggest industry in Halifax!

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

There are currently about 500 students at College Ste-Anne according to Wiki. Given the state of the province I question why we even had it. Expanding their facilities into HRM seems like lunacy. We also have far too many universities/colleges in NS.

I've never understood why so many Nova Scotians feel this way. Educational infrastructure is one of our biggest assets and one we don't do nearly enough to capitalize on--probably partially due to irrational biases against the public rather than private sector. But universities are enormous incubators of talent, intellect, employment, etc. Part of the reason Halifax is so relatively vibrant and interesting as a city despite its small size is its schools. The sector has challenges and problems and requires public money--but for that matter, so does manufacturing in Ontario and resources in Alberta.

It's this very Nova Scotian thing: we don't fully capitalize on our assets because we look straight through them, wishing they were something different.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Is it the "base of 45,000 Acadians, Fracophones and Fracophiles?" Because that sounds plausible to me.

Yes. The number is not in the October 9 minutes.
I don't know how anyone can estimate the number of 'Francophiles'. I think the architecture and planning rules in the center of Paris are a fine example of maintaining heritage and sense of a vibrant metropolis - does that make me a 'Francophile' ? Someone may have added in immigrants from French speaking countries as well as the children and parents of French Immersion students.
The project stands on its own merits, exaggeration is not required.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I've never understood why so many Nova Scotians feel this way. Educational infrastructure is one of our biggest assets and one we don't do nearly enough to capitalize on--probably partially due to irrational biases against the public rather than private sector. But universities are enormous incubators of talent, intellect, employment, etc. Part of the reason Halifax is so relatively vibrant and interesting as a city despite its small size is its schools. The sector has challenges and problems and requires public money--but for that matter, so does manufacturing in Ontario and resources in Alberta.

It's this very Nova Scotian thing: we don't fully capitalize on our assets because we look straight through them, wishing they were something different.

It's not that we have too many university students; aside from the weed pollution surrounding their residences, as others have said they are a good thing for the economy and the Province. It is that we have too many post-secondary INSTITUTIONS, with their expensive-to-maintain facilities and overpaid administrators and associated bureaucracy. As we have reason to see from the recent Dal dentistry fiasco, paying a university prez $400K a year does not ensure competent administration, nor does having an army of PR types to surround him. And the entire professorial class is generally the disaffected left-wing, unable to apply their knowledge in any productive way, so they teach instead, often to tiny classes, and attempt to shape the impressionable minds of students into other left-wingers. Rationalization of our excessive number of universities would be a good thing if for no other reason than to get control over the crushing cost of maintaining all these places and obtaining some efficiency from and better control over the teaching group.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It's not that we have too many university students; aside from the weed pollution surrounding their residences, as others have said they are a good thing for the economy and the Province. It is that we have too many post-secondary INSTITUTIONS, with their expensive-to-maintain facilities and overpaid administrators and associated bureaucracy. As we have reason to see from the recent Dal dentistry fiasco, paying a university prez $400K a year does not ensure competent administration, nor does having an army of PR types to surround him. And the entire professorial class is generally the disaffected left-wing, unable to apply their knowledge in any productive way, so they teach instead, often to tiny classes, and attempt to shape the impressionable minds of students into other left-wingers. Rationalization of our excessive number of universities would be a good thing if for no other reason than to get control over the crushing cost of maintaining all these places and obtaining some efficiency from and better control over the teaching group.

I broadly disagree, but there is some truth there, I think.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Yes. The number is not in the October 9 minutes.
I don't know how anyone can estimate the number of 'Francophiles'. I think the architecture and planning rules in the center of Paris are a fine example of maintaining heritage and sense of a vibrant metropolis - does that make me a 'Francophile' ? Someone may have added in immigrants from French speaking countries as well as the children and parents of French Immersion students.
The project stands on its own merits, exaggeration is not required.

I don't think it's an exaggeration - I took "Francophile" to mean people who speak French as a second (or third, etc.) language or who are interested in learning to speak French. The numbers seem about right assuming that is what they meant.

[counterfactual]

Delete.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It's not that we have too many university students; aside from the weed pollution surrounding their residences, as others have said they are a good thing for the economy and the Province. It is that we have too many post-secondary INSTITUTIONS, with their expensive-to-maintain facilities and overpaid administrators and associated bureaucracy. As we have reason to see from the recent Dal dentistry fiasco, paying a university prez $400K a year does not ensure competent administration, nor does having an army of PR types to surround him. And the entire professorial class is generally the disaffected left-wing, unable to apply their knowledge in any productive way, so they teach instead, often to tiny classes, and attempt to shape the impressionable minds of students into other left-wingers. Rationalization of our excessive number of universities would be a good thing if for no other reason than to get control over the crushing cost of maintaining all these places and obtaining some efficiency from and better control over the teaching group.

Wrote out a longer response, but I'll keep it shorter.

We have several post-secondary institutions by virtue of our historical standing as an important early Confederation province. We probably do with a few less, to be sure. But you're stretching very far on the rest, based on little, if any, evidence.

First, if you're concerned about spending, you're looking in the wrong place. The total spending on ALL university education in this province is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the REAL monstrosity eating up taxpayer dollars: health care spending. Nova Scotia leads the way in health spending, totaling around $4 billion for 2013-2014. That's almost HALF the budget on one item. We lead everyone in healthcare spending.

By contrast, all university spending was around $336 million in 2013-2014 budget. That is a tiny fraction of our approx $9.5 billion budget for that year. It's also, more importantly, a fraction of health spending. It's also approx. a third of what we spend every year on "community services" ($936 million). And guess what? It's also less than what we spend on your beloved highways, which cost us $435 milllion in 2013-2014. That's a $100 million more roads to spread asphalt all around the province, to keep everyone happy. And what a return on our dollars! Phew!

Want to check the data? By all means: http://www.novascotia.ca/finance/sit...Highlights.pdf

And, to be clear, universities, as Drybrain said, give so much more back to the community, here in Halifax, than is spent on them. In terms of innovation and ventures, universities in Halifax are almost the only game in town. Talk to any venture capitalists. Universities are lifeblood for start-ups, business spin offs from research, innovation and energy.

Second, there is no grand scale crisis in university administration. The dentistry debacle was bad, but it was mainly a product of an arcane disciplinary/complaints mechanism that meant for student complaints about conduct on campus by other students, and not built to deal with online contexts, like social media groups and chat rooms, etc. It wasn't handled well, but it is a single story in... how many years?

Third, your generalizations about professors are unsupportable and not true; you sound like a Sarah Palin or some other ranting Republican Presidential candidate demagogue. There are, for sure, some professors out there who do not engage is practical research, are terrible teachers, and don't do things productive, but we can say that about just about every single profession, business, service sector, etc. There are always bad apples. In fact, there are many, many, more profs who do important work, and increasingly, research and promotion is based on winning research grants which are based on research that makes substantial contributions to public policy. Universities are laser focused on public interest outcomes too.

In summery: (1) St. Anne's is great. (2) Bring it on, to Halifax. (3) university/education spending is the best money you can spend.

[beyeas]

Well said. The generalized slight on universities as hotbeds of communism is largely based on out-dated data. Is it true of some academics... of course. However like many generalizations it is also mostly not true and based on a small sampling.

There has been a real sea-change, from my perspective, in the approach that many professors at least in the science and engineering fields have taken to their teaching and research. It is still a process that is evolving, but I see more and more of my colleagues working hard to not just do great research, but also figuring out how to actually translate that out into the world as something that could someday provide economic benefit. Blackberry is a poor example these days, but take your pick of successful technology companies, and many of them started at one point as a piece of research at a university. In Canada, whereas 10 years ago I would hear sneers from many academics about research done in partnership with industry, now when I sit on national review panels I here things like "Oh and this is great because they already have an industry partner on board who could commercialize this". In my own research, in the past 5 years we have attracted direct foreign investment totalling in the seven figures from private companies looking to partner on research that my lab is doing. On a more local level, my lab helps support a broad number of med-tech start-ups, and provides them with expertise and access to infrastructure that they need to help move their potential diagnostic/therapeutic technologies forward.

Blanket statements that universities are simply soft places for those on the left who "can't do" is, to me, utterly offensive.

Let's instead deal in actual facts. As was said above very well, universities are massive economic generators. As a concrete example, Western U recently had an economic impact analysis performed that showed that their total impact was $11.3B with $3.6B of that realized directly in London. Is London somehow going to be better off without that $3.6B if all these profs who only are there teaching because they apparently "can't do?" now close up shop? At Dalhousie, there are all kinds of academic programs that now focus on teaching students not only how to do research, but also how to potentially commercialize their knowledge. Take for example Biomedical Engineering's BioMedic graduate program that teaches students the business and regulatory side of actually taking a new medical device to the market. Personally I am involved in a graduate program called RADIANT, which is the Neurotechnology & Entrepreneurship Program, where we collectively across multiple faculties provide opportunities at the gradate and undergraduate levels for teaching students about industry partnership in areas of brain health.

Generalized criticisms that are slights of entire groups of people are always to be taken for what they are. The facts, something that is glossed over when such generalizations are made, are rarely of importance in that case. And when it comes to this specific case, there are very hard numbers that shows an evolution away from the uniformly "purest" liberal academic to a more balanced approach that is far more nuanced and has a strong core that is focused on economic impact. Doesn't sound like communism to me.

[MonctonRad]

I don't think anyone would argue the value of having universities with strong research, technical or professional programs in your city. These are powerful economic generators that contribute greatly to the community.

There is however a strong disconnect between medical, engineering and science programs and the softer liberal arts like sociology, women's studies and political science. These latter programs certainly are hives of communism and anti male rhetoric. These are the programs that tend to give universities bad names (Dal dental school aside).

I'm not sure what Universite Ste Anne is up to. I certainly hope they are not planning a wholescale move to Halifax. The university (although small) is a very important economic generator and status symbol for the Acadian shore of Nova Scotia. It would be like ripping the heart out of the community if it left.

I suspect they are just planning on setting up a satellite campus for the francophone community in HRM. That would be OK, although I am not sure about the necessity of this. The precedent has already been set. Isn't there a metro campus of Cape Breton University somewhere up in Bayer's Lake??