What is your car ?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

You love to see it.

I've nothing against trucks.

I just think you should have to apply for a permit to purchase one, and justify it with a professional purpose.

I think the average person should be as unlikely to buy one, and as unaware of where/how to get one, as we are currently about transport trucks.

Trucks were great when they were relatively modest, high utility appliances. That's not the case that. Strong Towns has a great article a few days ago pointing out how electric trucks are sort of greenwashing:

....Pickups today are longer, wider, taller, and heavier than in decades past. According to Edmunds, the auto consumer information outlet, the most popular version of the 2021 F-150 is 21 inches longer, 1 inch wider, and 7 inches taller than the most popular version of the 1991 F-150. Each of these dimension measurements imposes its own set of costs.

Added length exacerbates traffic congestion by demanding more road space. Added width crowds other road users and puts vehicles closer to bicyclists. Added height, particularly if it comes in the form of more ground clearance, raises the point of impact toward a struck person’s vital areas. Longer, wider, taller vehicles also often reduce visibility from the driver’s seat, posing a clear danger to people in other vehicles and on foot. Weight, however, may be the most pressing concern.

According to the Environmental Protection Agency’s 2020 Automotive Trends Report, the average weight of a new pickup truck is 27% greater today than it was in the 1975 model year. For comparison, large SUVs are just 5% heavier and sedans are 13% lighter today.

As noted in the 1979 U.S. Government Accountability Office report “Excessive Truck Weight: An Expensive Burden We Can No Longer Support,” concentrating heavy masses over a single axle multiplies the effect of the mass exponentially. Because of this, deterioration of our roads caused by new, heavier trucks is even greater than the recent weight increases suggest.

Moreover, that extra weight means there is more force at the point of impact in the event of a collision. The growing size of trucks yields more bodily damage to people on foot and to smaller vehicles when struck. A 2010 meta-analysis of 12 studies on risks imposed by trucks concluded that a person on foot is 50% more likely to be killed when struck by a pickup or SUV than when struck by a smaller-class vehicle. As a result, pickups and SUVs are culpable for close to 40% of pedestrian fatalities, despite making up around a third of the full vehicle fleet nationally.

The electric F-150 will be worse than its ICE counterpart in this regard. Because of the 1,800-pound battery that will power it, the electric F-150 will weigh a half ton more than the same vehicle with a 3.5-liter engine, tipping the scales at a nearly unfathomable 6,500 pounds. This electric F-150 will impose as much or more risk than any existing Class 2a pickup truck, but its buyers will soon be rewarded with a tax break.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/...le-truck-virus

These things are monstrously different from the pickups we all seem to remember from the 80s. Even electrification will only make them better on one dimension while making them worse in so many other ways.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Somebody that actually uses a pickup truck for work? Wow.

My GMC Sierra has been used for work all weekend long, its bed is full of stuff as I write this. (Parked at a jobsite in downtown Sherbrooke right now. Vacant building from 1874 that I'm probably going to save but might demolish if the City is too stupid.)

I don't get wanting a truck if you don't need/use one. It costs 2x+ to operate vs my car...

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lio45

I don't get wanting a truck if you don't need/use one. It costs 2x+ to operate vs my car...

Social signalling. The article I linked to above also talks about this:

With the top-end trim options pushing its price point as high $90,000, there’s good reason to think the electric F-150 is the next evolution of the lifestyle truck rather than a replacement for work vehicles.

Though the percentage of American workers in agriculture and the building trades has declined over time, pickups have never been more popular. In 2020, the three most-purchased vehicle models in the U.S. and five of the top 10 most purchased vehicles were pickup trucks, despite corporate fleet purchases dropping substantially due to the COVID economic slowdown.

Two further indicators of how people will use Ford’s electric pickup are that it will only come in the “crew cab” variety that’s better suited for hauling kids to soccer than for hauling haybales and that Ford has scrapped its plans to produce electric versions of the more powerful F-250 and F-350. The pickup trucks Americans drive these days—and the F-150 is the benchmark—are social signaling mechanisms. Trucks tell us little about what you do for a living, but much about how you conceive of yourself. The electric F-150 will carry its own nuanced wrinkle, signaling “truck guy, but not Trump guy.”

A few years hence, it will be fascinating to see what percentage of Ford’s electric pickup sales have come from the commercial fleet buyers it claims are its targets and what percentage have come from the luxury consumers that prowl American suburbs.

[The Great Scaper]

I've owned trucks now for years. I've had my landscaping/maintenance business in Victoria for over 20 years now. I find having a truck so helpful even apart from work.

I also have a really cool 1999 Ford Ranger 4x4 with a dump box on it. I don't use it very often now but I just can't part with it as I really like it. Such a great little truck.

My 1999 Ford Ranger 4x4 dump truck by thegreatscaper, on Flickr

My 1999 Ford Ranger dump truck by thegreatscaper, on Flickr

[Architype]

I've noticed, at least around here, most of the trucks which serve for personal use are the larger double (crew?) cab types with the backseat, while most trucks intended for commercial or utilitarian use tend to be single cabs.

https://styleyourtrucks.com/pickup-t...b-vs-mega-cab/

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by lio45

My GMC Sierra has been used for work all weekend long, its bed is full of stuff as I write this. (Parked at a jobsite in downtown Sherbrooke right now. Vacant building from 1874 that I'm probably going to save but might demolish if the City is too stupid.)

I don't get wanting a truck if you don't need/use one. It costs 2x+ to operate vs my car...

In my case, it's essentially a muscle car but with the utility of a box.

2 doors, American V8, short wheelbase for better handling, plus I can tow trailers, and haul stuff that's too big or awkward to want to put inside an SUV.

I don't need it, but nobody needs a Camaro or Mustang either. I definitely do use it too, but not enough justify the cost if I didn't also really want it.


But then again, I'm in the extreme minority as far as my truck tastes. I also think the more popular crew cabs are way too big, but you also can't deny that if you're going to own only one vehicle, a crew cab truck can probably do every single thing another vehicle can offer you in terms of utility.

I really wish the new Colorado's had come out as a two-door, and it also looks like most of the electrics won't either. Unlike the opinions upthread, 4 doors will never be as cool as 2

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

You can rent automatics in Europe but they come at a bit of a price premium.

I’ve never learned standard either, just never had one easily available to learn on. My sister bought a standard last month though so I’m sure I’ll learn soon!

Re Price premium.....often the same car in an automatic is 25-33% more expensive and the selection is limited especially in the small fuel efficient cars. I swear european rental places are set up to try and upsell to an automatic version of the car if a North American customer shows up with scare stories such as 'when was the last time you drove a manual etc' and 'the traffic is heavy, one less thing to worry about if you have an automatic'.

I rented a car in Nice in 2016 and the lady there said she had worked there for 5 years and I was the first 'american' (her words) to have rented a manual that she was aware of.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

You love to see it.

I've nothing against trucks.

I just think you should have to apply for a permit to purchase one, and justify it with a professional purpose.

I think the average person should be as unlikely to buy one, and as unaware of where/how to get one, as we are currently about transport trucks.

Good luck with that. I think its a great idea but I'm sure people would find loopholes. For me, if you are a farmer, contractor, or construction company, then those are the only real reasons to own one. I realize that isn't a popular opinion in this day and age. I find them huge, unwieldy and difficult to see around and they often stick out in parking lots.

[Innsertnamehere]

That list is a surprisingly close list to who mostly owns trucks to be honest - there are some that don't match that list for sure (I have never seen my neighbour use his Ram for *anything* in the 2 years I've lived here, and I spend 8 hours a day working from home looking directly at it out my window), but from my experience most truck owners are contractors, construction workers, farmers, etc who use it at least occasionally for real purposes.

Half the problem with trucks is their gigantic inflation in size leading to anyone who needs a bed to have to buy this massive hulking rig. The return of mid-sized trucks already seems to be muting this a bit with a lot more people buying them again, and trucks like the Maverick will likely accelerate this further.

I think a lot of truck sales growth has come from people in those trades buying trucks in higher quantities - before many would have trucks but many also owned cars, today basically anyone in a trade drives a pickup.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Trucks were great when they were relatively modest, high utility appliances. That's not the case that. Strong Towns has a great article a few days ago pointing out how electric trucks are sort of greenwashing:



https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/...le-truck-virus

These things are monstrously different from the pickups we all seem to remember from the 80s. Even electrification will only make them better on one dimension while making them worse in so many other ways.

I mean strong towns is great in many ways but the arguments come of as a bit odd some times - after complaining about the environmental impact of trucks and cars for years, now that they are going electric, the criticism conveniently shifts to safety and how electric cars are more deadly for their weight.

Also, trucks have grown a fair bit in the last 20 years, but their design has also fundamentally changed which explains why. A 1991 truck would typically have been single cab with a 6 or 8 foot bed. Today the vast majority of truck sales are crew cab with 5 foot beds - which are actually much longer than the old configurations. They are very different vehicles though and it makes sense why they are longer, the basic configuration changed, the vehicles haven't just "creeped" up in length.

I recall growing up my dad had a crew cab Silverado with an 8ft bed... that thing was ridiculous. He needed basically two parking spots to park it. It was a fleet vehicle he could bring home but damn did he hate that thing.

Quite contrary to what Strong Towns is saying, I think the electric F-150 will be extremely popular with fleets in Canada, mostly because the Federal government allows businesses to write off $55k of the purchase price for electric vehicles. With that considered, they will likely work out to be far, far cheaper for a fleet vehicle over their lifetime, and most businesses love nothing more than a way to dodge taxes.

[milomilo]

Yeah one reason trucks are so popular now is surely that they have become much closer to cars in terms of creature comforts and general niceness, while giving up nothing in their ability to work. I had my doubts they were all they were cracked up to be, but now I have a work truck, I don't know if I could ever go back.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I mean strong towns is great in many ways but the arguments come of as a bit odd some times - after complaining about the environmental impact of trucks and cars for years, now that they are going electric, the criticism conveniently shifts to safety and how electric cars are more deadly for their weight.

Strong Towns has always complained about vehicular traffic. And their focus has largely been on the impact of financial sustainability of communities, and quality of life. Not so much on the emissions aspect. And eliminating the emissions doesn't get rid of all the other problems. They are right to point that out.

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Also, trucks have grown a fair bit in the last 20 years, but their design has also fundamentally changed which explains why. A 1991 truck would typically have been single cab with a 6 or 8 foot bed. Today the vast majority of truck sales are crew cab with 5 foot beds - which are actually much longer than the old configurations. They are very different vehicles though and it makes sense why they are longer, the basic configuration changed, the vehicles haven't just "creeped" up in length.

This is exactly what Strong Towns is talking about though. They have become lifestyle vehicles, rather than primarily reserved for workers. And the impact has been detrimental to pedestrians and cyclists. Even if it's more convenient for those who own them.

I think of my brother in law, who is a stylist who just bought a truck.... To take his sons to basketball. Throwing a gym bag in the bed is easier. That's good for him. But really shitty for everybody else on the road.

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Quite contrary to what Strong Towns is saying, I think the electric F-150 will be extremely popular with fleets in Canada, mostly because the Federal government allows businesses to write off $55k of the purchase price for electric vehicles. With that considered, they will likely work out to be far, far cheaper for a fleet vehicle over their lifetime, and most businesses love nothing more than a way to dodge taxes.

Strong Towns was talking about the US $7500 federal tax break for EVs. It's a valid question of whether governments should be subsidizing any vehicles at all. And I'm with them on this. I've regularly said here that we can stop subsidizing EVs and just focus on the infrastructure.

Personally, I think our high gas taxes will drive fleets to convert. But I do think it's a valid question of whether these will become substantial fleet vehicles in the US where gas will stay cheap.

[Truenorth00]

Great Twitter thread here on how SUVs are getting as large as tanks from WWII.

https://twitter.com/cocteautriplets/...67952158543874

I unfortunately can't post the gifs here. But go take a look.

[Innsertnamehere]

70% the size is not the same size, sorry. They are much narrower and shorter, even if lengths get sort of close. And even those lengths are nothing new in the car world, they are very similar to what has existed historically for most station wagons, etc.

Also, what is a "BWM", or even a Ford Wildtrak? Wildtrak is a trim level used for the Ranger in Australia best I can tell, but not a model. It's not even a trim model on an SUV, only a pickup.

The chart makes no sense.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by jonny24

I really wish the new Colorado's had come out as a two-door, and it also looks like most of the electrics won't either. Unlike the opinions upthread, 4 doors will never be as cool as 2

It does come as a 2-door. (Just not a single cab 2-door.)

https://www.chevrolet.com/trucks/col...d-price/config

I know you probably meant regular cab and I agree, though it's so close to the Silverado that I can see the point of not offering a full range for both lines.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by lio45

It does come as a 2-door. (Just not a single cab 2-door.)

https://www.chevrolet.com/trucks/col...d-price/config

I know you probably meant regular cab and I agree, though it's so close to the Silverado that I can see the point of not offering a full range for both lines.

It still has rear suicide doors, like the full size extended cabs (that Chevy doesn't make anymore, just 2 size of 4 full doors).

2021 Colorado ext cab/6'2" box: 5402mm length, 3258 wheelbase

2014 Silverado Reg cab/6'6" box: 5221mm, 3023 wheelbase

So the smallest version of the midsize truck is longer than the smallest version of the fullsize truck (which is discontinued by GM in Can/US). That 7" makes a big difference - one of those trucks fits in my driveway*, and one doesn't. And 9" of wheelbase changes the driving characteristics quite a bit.

*Actually, both don't, but for almost 3 years I've gotten away with zero tickets for overhanging the sidewalk by a couple inches. My buddy's Colorado got nailed for it the one and only night we left it in the driveway)

[Truenorth00]

I am thinking of replacing my electric car with a petrol car and have some questions.

1. I have heard that petrol cars can not refuel at home while you sleep? How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Is this several times a year? Will there be a solution for refueling at home?
   
2. Which parts will I need service on and how often? The car salesman mentioned a box with gears in it. What is this and will I receive a warning with an indicator when I need to change gear?
   
3. Can I accelerate and brake with one pedal as I do today with my electric car?
   
4. Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill? I assume so, but need to ask to be sure.
   
5. The car I test drove seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal in petrol cars?
   
6. We currently pay about 1.2p per mile to drive our electric car. I have heard that petrol can cost up to 10 times as much so I reckon we will lose some money in the beginning. We drive about 20,000 miles a year. Let's hope more people will start using petrol so prices go down.
   
7. Is it true that petrol is flammable? Should I empty the tank and store the petrol somewhere else while the car is in the garage?
   
8. Is there an automatic system to prevent gasoline from catching fire or exploding in an accident. What does this cost?
   
9. I understand that the main ingredient in petrol is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil causes environmental problems as well as conflicts and major wars that over the last 100 years have cost millions of lives? Is there a solution to these problems?
   
10. I have heard that cars with internal combustion based engines are being banned to enter more and more cities around the world, as it is claimed that they tend to harm the environment and health of their citizens?? Is that true??

I may have more questions later, but these are the most important ones to me at the moment. Thank you in advance for your reply.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricveh...eb2x&context=3

[Hackslack]

lol that's brilliant!

[urbandreamer]

If you want a safer truck, buy a Honda Ridgeline. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...of-big-trucks/

[Truenorth00]

Today's Globe and Mail:

Pickup trucks are a plague on Canadian streets

...Once the vehicle of the cowboy, the contractor and the good old boy, pickups have become the continent’s mainstream ride. Even city parking lots are simply full of them. In Canada, Ford’s F-150 has been the best-selling auto for years.

...In the United States, five of the 10 top-selling automobiles are pickup trucks. Just three leading models accounted for 13 per cent of the vehicles sold south of the border in 2020. Last spring, for the first time, Americans bought more pickups than cars.

...“Since 1990, U.S. pickup trucks have added almost 1,300 pounds on average,” writes author Angie Schmitt in Bloomberg CityLab. “Some of the biggest vehicles on the market now weigh almost 7,000 pounds – or about three Honda Civics.”

What spectacular overkill. One survey found that three quarters of pickup drivers used the vehicles for hauling only one time or not at all in the course of an average year. Despite all those ads showing manly pickups growling up mountain roads or churning through mud, nearly as few drivers used them to go off road.

Pickups have evolved to suit the way people use them. They often have big second rows, four doors and shorter cargo beds than they had in the past. Their cabs have all the latest electronics and attendant bells and whistles. In short, they are sort of suburban sedans on stilts, with big tires, powerful engines and giant grills that serve little purpose except to impress.
....

There's few more obvious points in there about safety and pollution. But seeing how little the actual features of a pickup are used is still shocking.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...adian-streets/