General Infrastructure Discussion

[WestCoastEcho]

Frances Bula with another excellent piece in the Globe, this time concerning cost increases in construction costs for Vancouver:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...sts-skyrocket/

Construction costs rose more in Vancouver than in any other city in Canada during the past two years and were predicted to go up about 4 per cent this year, says a national tracking study.

The costs are increasing at a time when the province is on a massive drive to deliver big infrastructure projects, including two SkyTrain lines and a new Pattullo Bridge, along with thousands of units of low-cost housing.

Only Ottawa, a much smaller metropolitan region that is undergoing a surge of federal projects and private-sector tech startups, came close, according to Turner & Townsend, a company that does cost accounting and project management. It tracks about 300 projects annually in seven major cities.

Vancouver’s costs increased by 5.19 per cent in 2018 and 6.39 per cent in 2019, with slightly more than 4 per cent anticipated for 2020.

Basically, costs for construction is rising at a rate faster than inflation, and a significant portion of the pressure is labour costs; there is a shortage of subtrades capable of delivering complex projects, at a time where construction activity is increasing, especially with the planned transit projects around the Lower Mainland.

On cost increases for housing, Bula notes the following:

Between 2017 and 2018, the price of the lowest-cost construction – wood-frame buildings at the most affordable end – went up to $165 a square foot from $155 a square foot, a 6.5-per-cent increase.

More-expensive concrete towers increased in cost, at the higher end, to $315 a square foot from $280 a square foot – a 15-per-cent increase, according to estimates from Altus Group, a company that monitors commercial real estate.

[Henbo]

When the dust starts to settle on Covid, I'm assuming senior levels of government will introduce some sort of stimulus package, similar to 08/09, which will go to funding "shovel-ready" infrastructure projects

Which projects locally would you consider "shovel-ready"?

I'm assuming Langley Extension Phase 2 will be, UBC extension won't be, SFU gondola won't be.

The new Vancouver Art Gallery? The old design for Harry Jerome Rec Centre on the North Shore?

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by Henbo

When the dust starts to settle on Covid, I'm assuming senior levels of government will introduce some sort of stimulus package, similar to 08/09, which will go to funding "shovel-ready" infrastructure projects

Which projects locally would you consider "shovel-ready"?

I'm assuming Langley Extension Phase 2 will be, UBC extension won't be, SFU gondola won't be.

The new Vancouver Art Gallery? The old design for Harry Jerome Rec Centre on the North Shore?

I doubt any funding will come here. Our construction industry currently is in need of skilled workers not projects that will take away from the skill set. That is why the community benefit agreement is a pile of crap. As what is needed is actual spots in training schools and programs to fast track immigration of skilled workers not training women in jobs they dont want.


Servers, retail and misc proffesional services are the only things effected by covid shut down. So maybe training servers to hang drywall or to but in rock anchors would be a good investment

[casper]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

I doubt any funding will come here. Our construction industry currently is in need of skilled workers not projects that will take away from the skill set. That is why the community benefit agreement is a pile of crap. As what is needed is actual spots in training schools and programs to fast track immigration of skilled workers not training women in jobs they dont want.


Servers, retail and misc proffesional services are the only things effected by covid shut down. So maybe training servers to hang drywall or to but in rock anchors would be a good investment

It is not clear what will happen to the pipeline of construction projects. If I was an inventory, not certain I would start a construction project over the next six month until we know what is happening.

[mellowyellow]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

Servers, retail and misc proffesional services are the only things effected by covid shut down. So maybe training servers to hang drywall or to but in rock anchors would be a good investment

Retail is majorly impacted by COVID-19 true, but those are not the only things. The negative effects of this pandemic on the economy is much more widespread.

Government funding for economic stimulus can come in many forms but infrastructure is certainly one. Dare I dream about the Cascadia Ultra High Speed Rail project pushing forward?

[misher]

Originally Posted by mellowyellow

Retail is majorly impacted by COVID-19 true, but those are not the only things. The negative effects of this pandemic on the economy is much more widespread.

Government funding for economic stimulus can come in many forms but infrastructure is certainly one. Dare I dream about the Cascadia Ultra High Speed Rail project pushing forward?

Your a dreamer! Our government doing things faster? :gasp:
Seriously though they'd likely go for the lower hanging fruit like the tunnel replacement, Site C, or skytrains. Maybe they'll even approve some projects that have waited years for environmental approvals.

Surrey recently approved a bunch of things in an effort to boost the economy.

[Sheba]

Stimulus money should fund green transportation, not highways, says caucus

Municipal politicians say federal and provincial stimulus money should be spent on transportation projects that reduce pollution, not highway and airport expansions.

More than 250 local government leaders, who are members of a national network called the Climate Caucus, have penned an open letter calling for economic-recovery cash — and other infrastructure funding — to be used to improve transit service and create opportunities for walking and cycling.

...

The Climate Caucus wants to make sure the money supports federal, provincial and local climate goals, and is asking for the federal and provincial governments to keep their commitment in the Pan-Canadian Framework on Clean Growth and Climate Change to shift investment to “lower-emitting types of transportation.”

The caucus is promoting transportation initiatives because, after the oil and gas sector, transportation is the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in Canada. In B.C., the sector accounts for about 37 per cent of emissions. Members believe ending highway and airport expansion projects in and near urban areas is a step in the right direction.

“It’s an opportunity and a threat, because if it goes to the wrong things it will put us going another five years heading in the wrong direction. But if there’s a real change of direction, it’s a huge opportunity to get going down the better path, the path that leads toward some hope for the younger generation,” transportation planner Eric Doherty, who is with the Better Transit Alliance of Greater Victoria and on the Climate Caucus transportation working group, said of post-pandemic stimulus funding.

Caucus members believe government money could support a wide variety of initiatives.

Doherty said good investments would include infrastructure, such as lanes and special signals that makes bus travel more efficient, or expanding transit fleets. He said Victoria has long needed a new bus depot with equipment to charge and maintain electric buses.

Logtenberg suggested subsidies for electric bicycle purchases or inter-city bus routes.

“In the case of Interior B.C., we lost the Greyhound service and that’s put a real burden on a lot of people who don’t have a vehicle or can’t afford one. You’re isolating people from getting to the neighbouring community,” he said.

Richmond councillor and caucus member Kelly Greene said she would like to see rapid transit build-outs funded by stimulus money.

“That’s something that would be very helpful for us, both in the short and long term,” Greene said. “Whether you’re looking at it from an economic, or a social, or an environmental viewpoint, building rapid transit capacity is the smartest thing you can possibly do — and in the short term, you’re creating jobs for people that are out of work.”

[libtard]

Yes let’s fund public transportation when passenger numbers are at historic lows and it puts people at greater risk of being exposed to the coronavirus. Public transit advocates need to understand we are in a new normal and things will never go back to the way they were. Public transit has been fundamentally changed forever

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by libtard

Yes let’s fund public transportation when passenger numbers are at historic lows and it puts people at greater risk of being exposed to the coronavirus. Public transit advocates need to understand we are in a new normal and things will never go back to the way they were. Public transit has been fundamentally changed forever

I really don't think you're right about that...

[Metro-One]

If BC already had an adequate highway system then this would be okay, but we don’t.

Yes, some money should go to transit projects and urban beautification/ pedestrian improvements, but really? No money for some highway 1 twinning? Or twinning the 97 through Peachland? Or interchanges along the SFPR?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by libtard

Yes let’s fund public transportation when passenger numbers are at historic lows and it puts people at greater risk of being exposed to the coronavirus. Public transit advocates need to understand we are in a new normal and things will never go back to the way they were. Public transit has been fundamentally changed forever

Slow down chicken little.

Any infrastructure started today won't see riders until we're long past COVID19.

I agree any major projects should be done with zero emissions if at all possible.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Slow down chicken little.

Any infrastructure started today won't see riders until we're long past COVID19.

I agree any major projects should be done with zero emissions if at all possible.

Lots of people on this board had your mindset at the beginning of the pandemic. Most have wisened up and there are only a handful of you left. We will never be “past” the coronavirus. It’s engrained in the public psyche now and has altered how people see public transit forever. The days of people crammed onto a bus are over. At this point, how can you think otherwise?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by libtard

Lots of people on this board had your mindset at the beginning of the pandemic. Most have wisened up and there are only a handful of you left. We will never be “past” the coronavirus. It’s engrained in the public psyche now and has altered how people see public transit forever. The days of people crammed onto a bus are over. At this point, how can you think otherwise?

You're living in your own head too much. Like everything else, this will pass. All signs point to a vaccine in the next year.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

You're living in your own head too much. Like everything else, this will pass. All signs point to a vaccine in the next year.

The problem is that he's not using any logic in his argument that this is the new normal.

A) He thinks somehow our psyche is scarred but I see lots of idiots at Cactus Club eating so I question this.

B) What's his opinion on a vaccine. That is the big open question.

I love people who try to validate their point by telling you that you are an imbecile for disagreeing with them.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The problem is that he's not using any logic in his argument that this is the new normal.

A) He thinks somehow our psyche is scarred but I see lots of idiots at Cactus Club eating so I question this.

B) What's his opinion on a vaccine. That is the big open question.

I love people who try to validate their point by telling you that you are an imbecile for disagreeing with them.

Yes, in short, he believes his opinion is shared by the vast majority. It's simply not true.

[libtard]

No actually my view point is shared by the vast majority of society now. It’s the fringe public transit advocates that still think we’ll go back to cramming people on buses like sardines. Lol @ a vaccine. Even when that comes out, it won’t change the public’s perception of riding public transit. It’s a fact numbers are at historic lows and set to stay like that for the foreseeable future. Its strange the same people that said working from home wouldn’t become the norm for many people (and were wrong about that) are the same people saying public transit ridership won’t be affected in the future. If anyone’s living in their own head, it’s you people who are still clinging to the hope that things will go back to normal. Time to face facts

[red-paladin]

Public transit use is slowly recovering already in Vancouver, and it will continue to do so, even if it takes months to get back to normal.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by libtard

No actually my view point is shared by the vast majority of society now. It’s the fringe public transit advocates that still think we’ll go back to cramming people on buses like sardines. Lol @ a vaccine. Even when that comes out, it won’t change the public’s perception of riding public transit. It’s a fact numbers are at historic lows and set to stay like that for the foreseeable future. Its strange the same people that said working from home wouldn’t become the norm for many people (and were wrong about that) are the same people saying public transit ridership won’t be affected in the future. If anyone’s living in their own head, it’s you people who are still clinging to the hope that things will go back to normal. Time to face facts

Please feel free to provide evidence for your outlandish claims.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Please feel free to provide evidence for your outlandish claims.

Basically he thinks he scored one point in a two hour long game and wants to go take his ball home because he's right and will always be right.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by libtard

No actually my view point is shared by the vast majority of society now.

What's your evidence for this, other than you simply repeating it over and over?