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Old Posted Oct 20, 2015, 6:24 AM
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Proposed new ski resort developments (Mt. Garibaldi and Hemlock Valley)

Well this is a first time I hear about this. Not sure if we really need another resort here, considering that Mount Seymour may go belly up if this season fails as well. There has also been a plan for a long time to expand the Hemlock Resort, but even that plan has not been successful.

What are your thoughts on this?

Quote:
Vancouver Sun: Whistler pushes for rejection of proposed Garibaldi mountain resort

Major players at Whistler are going flat out trying to kill a proposed four-season resort that would open a major ski hill 35 minutes closer to Vancouver.

Whistler Blackcomb, the resort municipality of Whistler, Tourism Whistler, the Whistler Chamber of Commerce and others are fiercely lobbying the province’s environmental assessment office to reject the Garibaldi at Squamish proposal, arguing it’s a poor area for skiing and would end up hurting the corridor’s reputation. A decision is expected this fall.

They also say if the resort — proposed by the Aquilini Investment Group and Northland Properties, which developed Revelstoke Mountain Resort — gets the green light, it would siphon off Whistler-bound skiers.

The Whistler Chamber of Commerce and the Hotel Association of Whistler say the new resort, which would be northeast of Squamish on Mount Garibaldi’s Brohm Ridge, would compete for employees, forcing Whistler businesses to raise salaries.

“The negative impacts of the federal government’s changes in both the temporary foreign workers program and the working visa program have yet to be fully felt in the job market,” said Stephen Webb, hotel association chair and general manager of Hilton Whistler Resort and Spa, in a letter to the environmental assessment office. “Competition for the available labour will potentially result in much higher wage bills for all employers.”

However, Whistler’s aggressive fight against the proposed resort may be starting to backfire, with Squamish residents — many of whom question Garibaldi at Squamish’s viability — maintaining it’s their decision to make and not Whistler’s.

Last month, for example, Squamish Chief editor Christine Endicott wrote a column citing the economic benefits Garibaldi at Squamish could bring to her town — and essentially telling Whistler to butt out.

“After construction, about 2,500 full-time-equivalent jobs would remain, and the resort would bolster the tax base for all residents,” wrote Endicott. “This decision will be made by residents of Squamish and Squamish Nation. It should not be decided by people in Whistler, who have their own interests in mind.”

And while the district of Squamish also questions the validity of the project, former councillor Paul Lalli wrote a recent letter to the Chief saying Garibaldi at Squamish would provide a big boost to the town’s tourism economy.

“I strongly believe that the decision on whether or not this all-season resort proceeds should be in the hands of the people of Squamish and the Squamish Nation.”

The $3.5-billion resort, which would be built on the rim of an ancient volcano, would include 124 ski runs on 668 hectares, three gondolas, 18 chairlifts and three on-mountain lodges. There would be three interconnected villages, with 5,723 housing and hotel units.

Whistler Mayor Nancy Wilhelm-Morden disputes the notion that it’s an issue for Squamish only, arguing Garibaldi at Squamish would affect the entire corridor.

She also suggested that Garibaldi at Squamish is a real estate grab, and that Squamish should focus on projects such as its oceanfront development plan. “One of the things that the Sea to Sky Corridor doesn’t have is the sea aspect of it.”

Wilhelm-Morden said the snow on Brohm Ridge is questionable and that the proponent hasn’t conducted any snow studies.

“To have the province make the investment they’ve made in Whistler and then to open up a competing ski resort 30 minutes away doesn’t make a lot of sense,” added Wilhelm-Morden, citing opposition to Garibaldi at Squamish by the Canada West Ski Areas Association as another red flag.

In a letter to the environmental assessment office, Whistler Blackcomb CEO Dave Brownlie — a director of the Canada West Ski Areas Association — maintained that Garibaldi at Squamish would “ultimately (compromise) the assessed value of more than $10-billion worth of taxable property in Whistler.”

Jim Chu, vice-president of special projects and partnerships for Aquilini Investment Group, said both resorts could work together to draw more tourists to the area.

Chu dismissed assertions that the area has poor snow. “Tell that to the snowmobilers’ club, which has been using it for quite a while.”

The Black Tusk Snowmobile Club says on its website that Brohm Ridge offers “breathtaking peaks (and) endless powder.”

“Certainly, we’re not going to stand here and predict the future in terms of weather patterns,” added Chu. “We’re aware of changes in the world, but that’s why this is a resort designed from the beginning as a four-season resort.”

Chu said Garibaldi at Squamish is not a real estate grab. “No land is released for development until the ski runs and infrastructure are built.”

Chu said environmental approval is only one of many steps in the approvals process, adding that his company is now meeting with local community groups and the Squamish First Nation.

Last edited by Klazu; Dec 8, 2015 at 1:34 AM. Reason: Updating thread
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  #2  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2015, 6:38 AM
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Here is more information on the project.
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  #3  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2015, 6:55 AM
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Typical anti-competitive, selfish behaviour disguised as altruistic intent.
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  #4  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2015, 3:05 PM
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Yeah, their reasoning sounds very anti-competitive and is ridiculous. Only few months ago Whistler businesses were complaining how they have had to close their business during many days of week because they cannot find enough workforce to run them. Easy solution to both issues: pay people enough! There is no lack of supply for workforce if you pay people fairly.

My concern with this project is more on the side if this new resort would make financial sense and would they be able to have snow in the world where climate change is making winters much warmer. We know that the North Shore resorts are already having tough time if a winter is warm.
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  #5  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2015, 3:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
Yeah, their reasoning sounds very anti-competitive and is ridiculous. Only few months ago Whistler businesses were complaining how they have had to close their business during many days of week because they cannot find enough workforce to run them. Easy solution to both issues: pay people enough! There is no lack of supply for workforce if you pay people fairly.

My concern with this project is more on the side if this new resort would make financial sense and would they be able to have snow in the world where climate change is making winters much warmer. We know that the North Shore resorts are already having tough time if a winter is warm.
Garibaldi Mountain, peaking at 2678 meters, is considerably higher than the local North Shore mountains,and Hemlock (example Grouse Mountain is only 1231 meters tall)

So, similar to Whistler, the majority of the skiing areas would likely be considerably higher in elevation, making them less susceptible to having winters with no snow.
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  #6  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2015, 5:13 PM
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Yeah, I know the mountain elevations, but I doubt this resort would be nowhere near the top of Mount Garibaldi and the base would be lower than Whistler. Whistler also has an advantage of being behind a small ridge when approaching from Squamish. I am sure it has more to do with the colder temperatures in Whistler than just the elevation.
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  #7  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2015, 5:58 PM
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I have heard of a different proposal that's supposedly been around as long as Whistler itself. One of the glaciers just west of the Squamish river that always seems to do well with powder?

What this Garibaldi proposal has going for it is that the provincial government wouldn't be out of pocket in building any roads or other infrastructure. Of course it will not come down to merit, but who can speak to whom in the provincial government off the record.
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Old Posted Oct 20, 2015, 6:51 PM
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I don't think that it is or should be the Environmental Assessment Office's jurisdiction to assess the financial viability of a project.

The business owners take the risk of investing and losing money.

Could the EAO then reject a rapid transit project because it would be a chronic money loser? Could the taxi industry oppose a new line?
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  #9  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 12:20 AM
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I am surprised that nobody mentioned another longtime mega-development that got approved last month. It would be great to see Hemlock Valley getting re-developed, as the location is beautiful and at least currently they have a good amount of snow (vs. North Shore Mountains).

I have only been there once in March 2014 (photos in here) and liked the terrain and the views. The only downside were old chair lifts that take forever to get back up.

NEW MASTERPLAN

Quote:
CBC: Hemlock Resort's $1.5B all-season expansion plan gets approval

A $1.5 billion plan to create an all-season tourist destination at Hemlock Resort in the Fraser Valley has been approved by the B.C. government.

The resort, north of Chilliwack, was bought in 2006 by the Langley-based Berezan Group, and the new five-phase plan is based on a collaboration between the developer, the province and the local Sts'ailes Band.

The plan will see the resort's footprint increase from 350 hectares to 6000, and will see an additional 20,000 bed units and 23 lifts added over 60 years.

The plan also includes waterfront development on Harrison Lake, to include a marina and a First Nations-themed village.

Phase 1 will cost $500 million and an estimated 1,153 full-time jobs will be created.

Berezan Group and the Sts'ailes Band will implement a forestry licensing plan that will maintain resource management of the area as the resort is developed.

The mountain resort was one of many in B.C. that suffered from a lack of snow last year, and was forced to cancel the ski season in February.

The 2013/14 season was also badly affected, only saved by a late dump of snow that allowed it to open in January 2014.

Smaller images from Vancitybuzz. Hemlock Resort today:


After expansion:





Last edited by Klazu; Dec 8, 2015 at 1:23 AM.
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  #10  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
I am surprised that nobody mentioned another longtime mega-development that got approved last month. It would be great to see Hemlock Valley getting re-developed, as the location is beautiful and at least currently they have a good amount of snow (vs. North Shore Mountains).

I have only been there once in March 2014 (photos in here) and liked the terrain and the views. The only downside were old chair lifts that take forever to get back up.
I haven't been to Hemlock since I was a kid, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around this proposal and the real market for it. Hemlock combines a relatively inconvenient location with less terrain and poorer snow conditions. Then add on two golf courses and a zip line...

This brought to you by the same guy that proposed a 70-storey tower in Surrey City Centre a few years back to inject some credibility...
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  #11  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 1:24 AM
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It is a 60-year masterplan split in 5 phases. So don't expect anything to happen very soon (if ever). In 60 years we won't even have any glaciers left in the Rockies...

Forgot to include the link to the new masterplan. Replaces also above pictures with smaller ones.

Somehow their plans for different lifts looks overly complicated to me.
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  #12  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 1:31 AM
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How it looks like today:





Back valley which is only partially part of the plan.
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  #13  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 2:39 AM
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I read most of the report when it came out. I'm still doubtful about whether there's a market for this resort, but it is much closer to the Fraser Valley than the North Shore resorts and Whistler, so I suppose it could serve that market. There just aren't too many people living there, compared to the inner metro area.
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  #14  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 2:51 AM
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With the Metro growing with 40 000 people annually, I would think there is demand for several centers. There is a significant number of people living only 30 minutes from Hemlock Valley (most of Surrey). If they improve the road up there (I would think that's a given), it would be close to those people.

But snow is something everyone is raising as the major concern here. Hemlock Valley is not much better off than North Shore Mountains...

Could a moderator change the thread title to something like Proposed new ski resort developments (Mt. Garibaldi and Hemlock Valley). Thanks!

Last edited by Klazu; Feb 7, 2016 at 5:55 AM.
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  #15  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2015, 4:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeats View Post
I read most of the report when it came out. I'm still doubtful about whether there's a market for this resort, but it is much closer to the Fraser Valley than the North Shore resorts and Whistler, so I suppose it could serve that market. There just aren't too many people living there, compared to the inner metro area.
Abbotsford to Mount Baker ski resort = 53 min
Abbotsford to Hemlock Valley ski resort = 1 hour and 21 min

Chilliwack to Mount Baker ski resort = 1 hour and 2 min
Chilliwack to Hemlock Valley ski resort = 1 hour and 14 min

Baker ski resort is superior to Hemlock in every way, and will always be. I wish Hemlock luck. Its a real estate play of course and unlike Garibaldi its in the middle of no where so I don't see this being viable at the moment, and I know that area well as I have driven the west Harrisson lake road to Lillooet lake more times in my life then I can remember.
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Old Posted Feb 7, 2016, 5:55 AM
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More on the Brohm Ridge project in Squamish. Didn't know that there was already work going on to build ski lifts some 50 years ago. Also surprised to learn that Whistler-Blackcomb is currently running only at 50-60% capacity, as it always feels so packed (during weekends). I doubt other resorts of the world are neither that busy during the week?

Quote:
Vancouver Sun: Concerns mount over Brohm Ridge ski hill proposal near Squamish

The first attempt for a ski hill on Brohm Ridge near Squamish took place nearly 50 years ago but the scars are still visible, with chunks of foundations slated for gondolas and chairlifts littered along the landscape.

Only the chalet, a homey three-storey lodge with tall windows overlooking the snow-capped Tantalus Range, and a nearby cabin, are in use today, thanks to the volunteer efforts of the Black Tusk Snowmobile Club, the stewards of the property.

But if a proposed $3.5-billion resort goes ahead for Brohm, the snowmobilers fear they will be left out in the cold, while other recreation users won’t have the same access to the rugged ridge just 15 minutes from Squamish.

“We’re just tenants so the province can kick us out whenever they want,” said Tony Cailes, president of the snowmobiling club. “There’s an awful lot of people not happy about this. The public is losing a place to go. This is Squamish’s backyard.”

On Tuesday morning, close to 20 trucks with individual snowmobilers headed up to Brohm Ridge, the rim of an ancient volcano and the site of Garibaldi at Squamish Inc.’s proposed four-season resort. As they wound their way up the road, they witnessed stunning views of Howe Sound and the Tantalus Mountains before reaching the chalet, where the snowmobiling club teaches avalanche training and awareness.

By mid-day, the top of Brohm Ridge, where the developers want to run a quad chair to a ski lift, was socked in by fog.

“This is typical of Brohm,” Cailes said. “Would people pay to come here? I don’t think so.”

The snowmobilers aren’t the only ones worried about the future of Brohm Ridge, after a resort proposal by the Aquilini Investment Group and Northland Properties, which developed Revelstoke Mountain Resort’s plan, cleared the first hurdle Friday by receiving an environmental assessment permit.

If the project goes ahead, the proponents expect the resort would include 124 ski runs, three gondolas, 18 chairlifts and three mountain lodges. There would also be three interconnected village areas, with 5,723 housing and hotel units.The massive project has the corporation of Whistler worried about its own economic future and the sustainability of the Sea to Sky corridor.

Whistler Mayor Nancy Wilhelm-Morden said the resort will suck skiers and snowboarders from Whistler Blackcomb, which is only operating at between 50- and 60-per-cent occupancy.

“Whistler is an important economic engine for the province,” she said, noting it reaps $1 million in tax dollars per day and $1.4 billion annually in GDP. “Why the province would consider jeopardizing any of that by approving a competing ski resort nearby makes little sense.”

Critics argue the proposal is the developers’ way to grab Crown land at a cheap rate for residential development, noting the provincial government allows ski hill developers to purchase Crown land for $5,000 per acre or at its assessed value.

The B.C. government said in an email to The Sun the policy has been in place since the 1980s, and recognizes the capital investment that developers are putting into Crown land when they develop a resort. All the key components of a ski resort remain on Crown land and are authorized by Crown land tenures, the email stated, and if the resort fails in any phase, the province can appoint a receiver to operate the resort and/or market it to other investors so the resort can get back in operation as quickly as possible.

The province has also told both Squamish and Whistler that it will not accept a master plan for review from the developers unless there is agreement in principle on the size of the project from whichever jurisdiction incorporates the project into its boundaries.

However, this isn’t good enough for Wilhelm-Morden, who maintains “all of the communities in the corridor have spent a lot of time and taxpayers’ money putting forward our case; that’s why this doesn’t make sense. If it fails, it will affect the reputation of ski areas around the province.”

Jack Crompton, a Whistler councillor and chairman of the Squamish-Lillooet Regional District, agreed. The regional district, which includes Whistler and Pemberton, voted unanimously to oppose the project, saying it does not fit within the goals of the regional growth strategy, which is to confine development to existing communities.

“We don’t believe this project is good for our region,” Crompton said. “If it proceeds, this project would hand over some of the most pristine land in Canada to a developer for $5,000 an acre. All the planning that’s been done has shown this is not the right place for a large-scale development.”

Compton argues that a four-season resort would promote one tourism project at the expense of others across the region, including the Sea to Sky gondola and Squamish waterfront development and South Chilcotin regional park. The proposal would also put more cars on the highway.

“We have gems for tourists in our region and we want to promote those and not one single real estate development,” he said. “These are places with real people, real businesses and real opportunities for communities that currently exist.”

Wilhelm-Morden agrees, saying Whistler supports tourism in other communities but not one that competes directly with the corporation’s ski hill. She maintains Brohm Ridge is at a lower elevation than Whistler Blackcomb and yet there has been no studies done on the snow in the Brohm Ridge area or the weather patterns, while an application decades ago was turned down by the province after finding it was not suitable for a ski resort.

She noted there isn’t room to cluster ski hills in the Sea to Sky corridor because, unlike Colorado or Utah, it doesn’t have the population or transporting hubs to make it viable.

“We’re faced with warmer and wetter winters,” she said. “That doesn’t bode well for Brohm Ridge. You can’t make snow if you’re pumping out water.”

Peter Auld, a member of the Black Tusk club and a dirt biker has put up SaveBrohm.org signs around the chalet, said he’s not only worried about who will carry the burden if the project goes belly up, but what will happen to the steelhead in Brohm Creek.

“The heart of the development is right in this habitat,” he said.

Auld maintains the project isn’t about a ski hill but about residential development that will end up pitting the public against profit.

As a snowmobiler, he heads up to Brohm at least once a week, while in the summer, he hits the trails on his dirt bike, sharing the space with hikers and mountain bikers. Although the mountain bikers may still have a place on Brohm Ridge, he said that’s likely not true for dirt bikers or snowmobilers.

“This is kicking people off their own land for the purpose of profit.”

Cailes agrees, noting the Black Tusk Club is in discussions with Aquilini of a possible relocation plan if the project proceeds.

He questions why Brohm is being considered for a ski hill, arguing right now on Brohm Ridge, there’s 20 centimetres of snow on hard-packed ice. He suggests Callaghan Valley would be a better bet for a ski hill as it has already been taken out of the public’s hands.

On Tuesday, snowmobilers were constantly helping each, picking up dropped items and going in search of their owners or guiding a new snowmobiler who went off the trail and got stuck.

“These people are having an adventure,” Cailes said. “They couldn’t do that without public access. That’s freedom.”

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/C...343/story.html
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  #17  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2016, 4:06 AM
Krissy Krissy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
More on the Brohm Ridge project in Squamish. Didn't know that there was already work going on to build ski lifts some 50 years ago. Also surprised to learn that Whistler-Blackcomb is currently running only at 50-60% capacity, as it always feels so packed (during weekends). I doubt other resorts of the world are neither that busy during the week?
I wonder how they determined 50-60% capacity? Overall? It certainly feels overcapacity as it took me over an hour to go up a chairlift two weekends ago.
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  #18  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2016, 4:18 AM
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It's only worth going up to Whistler on a regular weekday.
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  #19  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 4:07 AM
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Whistler Blackcomb is appearing to get a head start with $345 million in improvements announced today.

http://renaissance.whistlerblackcomb.com/

Sounds like they are really trying to diversify the resort and provide enhanced "weatherproof" experiences.

Investment primarily centers around Base II around and include:

-indoor/outdoor water park and recreation facility
-tree top adventure courses
-new food & beverage outlets
-a new gondola replacing the ancient Magic Chair
-year round mountain coaster
-50km new downhill bike trails (Creekside focused)
-new parking facilities (double decking existing lots)
-mountaintop suspension bridges for sightseeing
-reintroduction of night skiing
-new ski school lodge and learning spaces
-upgraded Blackcomb daylodges
-55-65 ski in/ski out 3-5 bedroom townhouses
-"6 star" boutique luxury hotel

It is great to see some reinvestment in Whistler, there has been very little tourist-oriented development since the buildup to the Olympics.
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  #20  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2016, 4:32 AM
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the resort will suck skiers and snowboarders from Whistler Blackcomb, which is only operating at between 50- and 60-per-cent occupancy.
Wouldn't occupancy indicate rooms and not ski passes or what not.
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