Atlantic Highways Thread

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Convincing the public that tolls are a good thing is an important first step, but the main detractors of tolls are going to be the industries that utilize trucking, mainly Irving.

Don't forget the enraged local commuters too. That's why toll booths have to be located in places designed to trap through traffic. No politician will want to piss off the voting public too much. A toll booth on the 15 at Scoudouc just wouldn't fly. Neither would a toll booth between Sackville and Memramcook. A toll booth just east of Aulac however would be an easier sell.

I drove down to Washington and back last fall. Between DC & Mass, I spent about $40 on tolls on the way back ($20 on the GW Bridge alone)! The vast majority of the tolling stations were set up near state borders in locations that would not offend local commuters. Out of state residents however were fair game.....

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I drove down to Washington and back last fall. Between DC & Mass, I spent about $40 on tolls on the way back ($20 on the GW Bridge alone)! The vast majority of the tolling stations were set up near state borders in locations that would not offend local commuters. Out of state residents however were fair game.....

Yeah, i've done the full length of I-95. I totally don't mind paying tolls so long as the highways are in decent shape, and once you get down to Florida it's really difficult for the roads to fall apart just based on the weather alone. The tolls in Pennsylvania and Delaware were interesting. And yeah, the GW Bridge is super expensive, and even at midnight there will be plenty of traffic backed up waiting to get over....but again, Maritime mentality dictates that you can't use any example from anywhere outside of the Maritimes because we're not them and whatever they do won't work here. Roundabouts, yeah?

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

It would take getting used to, but it's hardly without precedent. Going down I-95, there has to be a toll every 10 miles in some parts. The sites I suggest would hit people travelling between cities, but not within regions (with the exception of Shediac-Moncton). But in lieu of the larger tolls that they use in Nova Scotia, have lower but more frequent ones.

There's only three toll roads in Nova Scotia one at Folly Pass ($4), and the two Halifax Harbour Bridges ($1). None of these are costly at all.

My system of how the system should be is firstly creating a "regional" toll authority. This authority would encompass any provincial tolls in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia and potentially PEI (depends on how the Confederation Bridge is set-up). This new commission would take over for Halifax Harbour Bridges and the Folly Pass commission (and potentially the Confederation Bridge commission). It would oversee the installation of standard toll booths at the NB-QUE and NB-MAINE border crossings. It would also oversee the installation of three standard tolls located on Highways 1, 2, and 7 between the three large cities. These would be placed as close as possible to the commuter-shed boundaries in order to target long-haul drivers and not locals.

At the Aulac-Amherst (2/104) crossing a pair of toll booths would be installed. Each would charge one direction of travel benefiting the province the toll is physically located in. Part of the deal with Nova Scotia would see a through-permit issued for the Folly Pass toll where drivers who use both Folly Pass and Aulac-Amherst within say a 12-hour span would pay at the first toll, receive a ticket, and use that ticket at the second toll. Both tolls should have identical pricing and a system would be in place so people who pay in Folly Pass but not Aulac would still give NB some money. This would also remove most of the people that detour Folly Pass by using Trunk 4 by removing the benefit.

The benefit of having a regional authority doing this would be convenience, co-operation and efficiency. A MACPASS style system could be implemented across the provinces, the authority could issue ideas like forgiving one toll if a nearby one was already paid, a single authority would reduce overall overhead, and the general funds raised could be used to promote inter-provincial travel and trade.

If PEI currently funds and controls the Confederation Bridge commission it is also welcome to join the group. The idea could also be expanded to run the ferry systems as well.

I also think there should be toll booths on NS Highways 101 (Mount Uniacke-Middle Sackville), 103 (near Hubbards), 104 (Truro-New Glasgow), and the Canso Causeway.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There probably should be a toll station just inside the Quebec-NB border as well. Again, I don't think there is a huge amount of local cross border traffic there.

Except for people crossing over into Quebec to buy beer at that first Irving. Putting a toll there could also mean increased revenues for NB Liquor.

The primary goal of tolls in NB should be to capture revenue from through traffic. I don't think it's unreasonable to place the tolls to avoid local commuters.

[jeddy1989]

I do not think that there are any tolled Highways in NL, the City of St. John's talked about tolling an inter (inner) city highway to residents that were not from the St. John's Municipality in retaliation to Mount Pearl not wanting to pay for any part of the Highway. However due to the fact that the NL government is funding part of it.. it was deemed against the rules to have anyone in the province pay a toll.

I personally do not like the idea of tolls but then again I'm not the one paying for these highways

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Except for people crossing over into Quebec to buy beer at that first Irving. Putting a toll there could also mean increased revenues for NB Liquor.

The primary goal of tolls in NB should be to capture revenue from through traffic. I don't think it's unreasonable to place the tolls to avoid local commuters.

You would hurt Edmundston businesses if you did that. From Cabano, Notre-Dame-du-Lac and Dégelis (basically the southern half of the 185 corridor), people are as likely or more to do their shopping in Edmundston as they are in Rivière-du-Loup. Plus there are a lot of family ties between people in the Madawaska region of NB and the Témiscouata region of Quebec.

[theshark]

There would be plenty of roads to bypass the tolls, just the old TCH running alongside the new one and all the access roads they had to build to give access to land and houses. Without counting secondary roads and trails...

Thing is with the pass in NS is you have no exits for a good while before the toll, here in the region you get one about every 5-10 km and a parrallel road to the TCH to the next exit. It would be a good challenge to find a location that cannot be bypassed in the North West.

[mylesmalley]

There are almost always going to be ways to avoid toll plazas, but whether or not people use them will come down to convenience. Granted, there will always be a certain percentage of motorists who will drive 15km out of their way to 'save' $0.02 per litre on gas, but for the most part it just isn't worth the hassle. Is a 10km trip on crappy low-speed roads really better than ponying up a dollar for a toll?

[CdnEh]

If we really want to talk about expensive toll roads we could talk about how it costs $45 to cross the Confederation Bridge.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by CdnEh

If we really want to talk about expensive toll roads we could talk about how it costs $45 to cross the Confederation Bridge.

Still cheaper than the ferry was......

[cl812]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Except for people crossing over into Quebec to buy beer at that first Irving. Putting a toll there could also mean increased revenues for NB Liquor.

The primary goal of tolls in NB should be to capture revenue from through traffic. I don't think it's unreasonable to place the tolls to avoid local commuters.

Funny you should mention that, I heard on CBC the other day that some people were acutally being charged for importing cheap liquor from Quebec into the province (at Campbellton). I knew that it is technically against the law, but i didnt think they actually enforced it. Kind of ridiculous since it can be imported from the US (after being over for 48 hours of course).

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by cl812

Funny you should mention that, I heard on CBC the other day that some people were acutally being charged for importing cheap liquor from Quebec into the province (at Campbellton). I knew that it is technically against the law, but i didnt think they actually enforced it. Kind of ridiculous since it can be imported from the US (after being over for 48 hours of course).

I believe the limit that you can take across the provincial border is 48 or something like that.

Also it can be imported from the U.S. regardless of how long you were there but you need to pay duty if your stay was less than 48 hours.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by cl812

Funny you should mention that, I heard on CBC the other day that some people were acutally being charged for importing cheap liquor from Quebec into the province (at Campbellton). I knew that it is technically against the law, but i didnt think they actually enforced it. Kind of ridiculous since it can be imported from the US (after being over for 48 hours of course).

I suppose it was massive importation likely destined for resale as opposed to personal consumption.

If they did something like that in Ottawa-Gatineau (to regular people, not modern-day bootleggers), you would likely have a riot on your hands.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I suppose it was massive importation likely destined for resale as opposed to personal consumption.

Not necessarily; the limit is 24 bottles. I always pick up a few cases of beer when in Quebec; not just due to price but also due to the wider selection available there.

Here's the CBC story: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...rting-618.html

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Not necessarily; the limit is 24 bottles. I always pick up a few cases of beer when in Quebec; not just due to price but also due to the wider selection available there.

Here's the CBC story: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...rting-618.html

But it is rarely if ever applied. If I look at Ontario the limit is about 70 bottles. So every person from Ontario who buys two super sized packs of 60 Coors Light in Gatineau and drives home is violating the law. On a typical Saturday afternoon there is probably one such violation every 20 seconds or so.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Still cheaper than the ferry was......

Yup…….when the Confederation Bridge opened in 1997, the toll was based on what was being charged by the Marine Atlantic Ferry at that time. Since then the toll has increased with inflation…..but probably cheaper now than if the ferries were still operating. At least there wouldn’t be a Fuel Surcharge!

Last summer, the NFL Ferry at the eastern end of the island charged $66 for a car + a $5 fuel surcharge. I imagine a ferry still operating at Borden would only be slightly cheaper now due to the shorter distance.

And remember the Bridge or Ferry tolls are Round-Trip. So if you are just touring and doing a loop across the Island between NS and NB…….take the Ferry over to PEI for free and return on the bridge for $45. (Tolls are collected only when leaving the Island on the Bridge or Ferry) Returning via Ferry would set you back $71.

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You would hurt Edmundston businesses if you did that. From Cabano, Notre-Dame-du-Lac and Dégelis (basically the southern half of the 185 corridor), people are as likely or more to do their shopping in Edmundston as they are in Rivière-du-Loup. Plus there are a lot of family ties between people in the Madawaska region of NB and the Témiscouata region of Quebec.

As a matter of fact,from someone who grew up there, I would say that only people in Degelis tend to shop in Edmundston. These days, Riviere-du-Loup has a lot more to offer in terms of retail. However, when I was younger it was more half and half until Le Centre Madawaska started to lose ground.

In RDL, on sunday, its not unusual to see a large portion of NB plates at the mall.

[theshark]

^^^ actually when I left 7 years ago you where seeing more and more people from Notre Dame and Cabano showing up in stores in Edmundston, especially since the wal mart opened and that sobeys switched to IGA

Wonder if the new 85 will change the tide.

[Smevo]

Cross posted from Sydney thread.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...l-crashes.html

Multiple crashes on Cape Breton road spark review
Recent crash on Kyte's Hill just the latest in ongoing issues

CBC News
Posted: Apr 3, 2013 4:17 PM AT
Last Updated: Apr 3, 2013 5:50 PM AT


The Department of Transportation has hired a consultant to see if the highway between Sydney and Glace Bay can be made safer.

...

Sgt. Russell Baker with the Traffic Division said there's at least one accident a week on the Sydney end of the highway.

Baker said the Kyte's Hill area is especially dangerous during rush hour traffic.

...

Baker said the provincial study will look at the entire highway, but will focus on the Kyte's Hill stretch.


...

[MonctonRad]

I remember that road from when I spent three months of my internship in St. Rita's Hospital back in the 1980's. It struck me as not much more than a glorified four lane undivided race track back then. I guess not much has changed since then....