PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread II

[As0925]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Ooooo.....I got a big one...

Heard from a little bird that THIS is in play....

https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phil...near-2nd-arch/

Lets see if that bird was drunk...

As someone that lives right around the corner from this building, I can say they’ve been actively working on this building again. I hope a restaurant ends up opening on the first floor. Old City desperately needs more restaurants on that side of Market St…

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by As0925

As someone that lives right around the corner from this building, I can say they’ve been actively working on this building again. I hope a restaurant ends up opening on the first floor. Old City desperately needs more restaurants on that side of Market St…

I'm right around the corner as well. I walk by that place daily.

I have been pining away for this place to be developed ever since Economy left. The word was that they were leaving because the developers of this gave them an offer they couldn't refuse. Fast forward to 5 years of fits and starts and its still a ghost property.

I remember when the original proposal for a Hotel/Bar/Restaurant came out, there were a bunch of pearl clutchers walking around trying to get signatures to block it saying that it would encourage "drunk college students flooding into the street at 2 in the morning." I don't know about you but when I was in college, I never saw the inside of a boutique anything. What a ridiculous take.

Anyway, apparently the structural repairs needed has been the holdup and the OG plans of a Hotel/Bar/Restaurant are going forward. Apparently they also had a problem securing a liquor license, which has been resolved. I hate to even bring it up for fear of jinxing it.

The other huge thing for me is that it breaks the seal for a liquor license between Market and Race, which for the longest time was banned by the now defunct OCCA. I get why that "rule" was in place back when OC was way more of a Bar Crawl type destination but now I think that some tasteful neighborhood taverns and restaurants would seriously up the Old City game. I'm thinking lik3 2nd between Spring Garden and Poplar. There are certainly enough places with vacancies.

Trying not to get too excited but it's not really working. lol.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Redddog

I'm so sick of the "it could be worse" mentality when it comes to this. A chase bank is the most sterile, boing and over-represented tenant we could have asked for in this spot. I'm with PDX. Who even goes into these banks anymore? And I say this as a customer. The "restaurant/bar closes on prominent corner, bank takes it's spot" dynamic in this town is killing me.

I get it that it could be a smoke shop or a dollar store. But this is just slightly better, imho.

You don't hear that from me. I usually lament losing good retailers, and get push back with "Target sucked, who cares, PetSmart sucked, who cares, Marshall's sucked, who cares, etc.

Of course a nice clothing store or food concept would be great, but this particular corner has been vacant since 2020 and unpleasant since ~2016. While I'm sure high rent played a part in the extended vacancy, it is what is it for this corner...

I was more bothered when Banana Republic was replaced with a Citizens Bank. Those instances make me cringe.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Well you don't hear that talk from me. I usually lament closures, and get bombarded with "Target sucks, who cares, PetSmart sucks, who cares, Marshall's sucked, who cares, Starbucks sucked, who cares, etc.

Of course a nice clothing store or food concept would be great, but this particular corner has been unpleasant since 2015 (when Wawa opened then closed), so it is what is it... There is still hope at the Bellveue and former AC Moore, down the block.

I was more bothered when Banana Republic was replaced with a Citizens Bank.

I hear you. Didn't mean to come off attacking.

And to me, that Target closure at 11th street was devastating. LOL.

I just always hoped for something that added a little bit of life to that corner, not just another essentially empty storefront that sterilizes South Broad even more.

I keep hoping for this "24/7 Philadelphia" that they keep talking about. I need to realize that that will never happen.

[PHLJD13]

Originally Posted by Redddog

I keep hoping for this "24/7 Philadelphia" that they keep talking about. I need to realize that that will never happen.

Whatever happened to our "Night Mayor"

Biggest joke ever.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Redddog

I hear you. Didn't mean to come off attacking.

And to me, that Target closure at 11th street was devastating. LOL.

I just always hoped for something that added a little bit of life to that corner, not just another essentially empty storefront that sterilizes South Broad even more.

I keep hoping for this "24/7 Philadelphia" that they keep talking about. I need to realize that that will never happen.

I remember when that intersection was Robinson's Luggage, Border's, Banana Republic and Ralph Lauren. That was a great setup, times have changed...

There is still the Bellevue corner, which will be a nice restaurant, the vacant AC Moore, and a few other vacancies that could serve as something nice. But yea, overall, Broad (and Market) is meh and block-by-block.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Redddog

I'm right around the corner as well. I walk by that place daily.

I have been pining away for this place to be developed ever since Economy left. The word was that they were leaving because the developers of this gave them an offer they couldn't refuse. Fast forward to 5 years of fits and starts and its still a ghost property.

I remember when the original proposal for a Hotel/Bar/Restaurant came out, there were a bunch of pearl clutchers walking around trying to get signatures to block it saying that it would encourage "drunk college students flooding into the street at 2 in the morning." I don't know about you but when I was in college, I never saw the inside of a boutique anything. What a ridiculous take.

Anyway, apparently the structural repairs needed has been the holdup and the OG plans of a Hotel/Bar/Restaurant are going forward. Apparently they also had a problem securing a liquor license, which has been resolved. I hate to even bring it up for fear of jinxing it.

The other huge thing for me is that it breaks the seal for a liquor license between Market and Race, which for the longest time was banned by the now defunct OCCA. I get why that "rule" was in place back when OC was way more of a Bar Crawl type destination but now I think that some tasteful neighborhood taverns and restaurants would seriously up the Old City game. I'm thinking lik3 2nd between Spring Garden and Poplar. There are certainly enough places with vacancies.

Trying not to get too excited but it's not really working. lol.

I've long said Old City betweent Front and 4th, Market and Vine is one of my favorite pockets in the entire city. Even just 3 or 4 sophisticated restaurants peppered throughout the entire expanse would make an incredible difference. It feels like that moment is coming.

On another note, I walked from my spot at 3rd&Brown last weekend to the Target in NoLibs (that house is a rental now) and man was Northern Liberties PACKED. When you walk down 5th toward Spring Garden with the Carson and the new building from SLC on the SE corner of 5th and Spring Garden it feels like an entirely new skyscraper canyon. People were mullling about everywhere. On top of that, Northern Liberties looked spotless throughout the neighborhood. The BID district there is paying big dividends.

NoLibs (and Old City) are so overdue for their next evolution. Northern Liberties at this point, relative to its density and incomes, is the most underretailed neighborhood in the city by a long shot. I know the old heads in the city who are taste makers think of NoLibs as cliche but you can only go so long and ignore all that income for so long before you start to look like an idiot. At some point it's just going to pop and we're gonna be wondering WtF happened.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I remember when that intersection was Robinson's Luggage, Border's, Banana Republic and Ralph Lauren. That was a great setup, times have changed...

When you say "times have changed", ironically the city is richer per capita, residents are worth more, population is exploding in greater center city...

It just goes to show how important M-F 9-5 office workers are in supporting these retailers. We need more companies downtown, and office workers in the buildings, period.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I've long said Old City betweent Front and 4th, Market and Vine is one of my favorite pockets in the entire city. Even just 3 or 4 sophisticated restaurants peppered throughout the entire expanse would make an incredible difference. It feels like that moment is coming.

On another note, I walked from my spot at 3rd&Brown last weekend to the Target in NoLibs (that house is a rental now) and man was Northern Liberties PACKED. When you walk down 5th toward Spring Garden with the Carson and the new building from SLC on the SE corner of 5th and Spring Garden it feels like an entirely new skyscraper canyon. People were mullling about everywhere. On top of that, Northern Liberties looked spotless throughout the neighborhood. The BID district there is paying big dividends.

NoLibs (and Old City) are so overdue for their next evolution. Northern Liberties at this point, relative to its density and incomes, is the most underretailed neighborhood in the city by a long shot. I know the old heads in the city who are taste makers think of NoLibs as cliche but you can only go so long and ignore all that income for so long before you start to look like an idiot. At some point it's just going to pop and we're gonna be wondering WtF happened.

Just came out today, related to NoLibs food/drink. Speakeasy opening next to SIN Steakhouse.

New York group opening speakeasy, restaurant in Northern Liberties
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...om-nolibs.html

"I just am very bullish on Philadelphia and the Northern Liberties area in general," he said. "We see how many developments are going there, how much new housing is going in, and all those people are going to need to eat."

Originally Posted by Londonee

When you say "times have changed", ironically the city is richer per capita, residents are worth more, population is exploding in greater center city...

It just goes to show how important M-F 9-5 office workers are in supporting these retailers. We need more companies downtown, and office workers in the buildings, period.

For sure, the demographic shifts (for the better) in the city are impressive. I just meant in terms of retail, changing consumer habits, high-rent, etc. The retail / commercial sector is drastically different from just 15-years ago (sounding old).

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I've long said Old City betweent Front and 4th, Market and Vine is one of my favorite pockets in the entire city. Even just 3 or 4 sophisticated restaurants peppered throughout the entire expanse would make an incredible difference. It feels like that moment is coming.

On another note, I walked from my spot at 3rd&Brown last weekend to the Target in NoLibs (that house is a rental now) and man was Northern Liberties PACKED. When you walk down 5th toward Spring Garden with the Carson and the new building from SLC on the SE corner of 5th and Spring Garden it feels like an entirely new skyscraper canyon. People were mullling about everywhere. On top of that, Northern Liberties looked spotless throughout the neighborhood. The BID district there is paying big dividends.

NoLibs (and Old City) are so overdue for their next evolution. Northern Liberties at this point, relative to its density and incomes, is the most underretailed neighborhood in the city by a long shot. I know the old heads in the city who are taste makers think of NoLibs as cliche but you can only go so long and ignore all that income for so long before you start to look like an idiot. At some point it's just going to pop and we're gonna be wondering WtF happened.

Right? Whenever we walk through multiple neighborhoods, we always settle on old city as one of the coolest. I agree that Upper Old City's time might be coming. Up until very recently, there has been a maddeningly large amount of vacancies (particularly on 2nd) but it seems like that might be changing finally. This hotel will be a HUGE part of that dynamic and will almost certainly catalyze a couple more cool spots. Like you said, 3 or 4 between market and race would be massive. And it feels like we're gonna get some kind of news on Starr and the 2nd street location any time. I don't have anything concrete on that. It just feels like it.

Nolibs as a cliche is crazy. I hear it form time to time but it's almost always from the super old schoolers who remember it as dangerous ("and don't even get me started on Fishtown"). When they finish connecting these two neighborhoods with all the coolness that's happening on 2nd between Callowhill and Spring Garden, forget it.

Spring Garden, from 2nd west is so unbelievable I am amazed whenever I see it. The lady and I go up to Yards often to grab some beers and the walk home is always astonishing. 2nd and Spring Garden is so massive, I still can't believe it. The view of that building looking south from Standard Tap really puts into view how huge that building is. And don't get me started on all the developments going on in that stretch. Really hoping the commercial spaces in those new buildings are cool.

Really exciting times for these two connected neighborhoods.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Just came out today, related to NoLibs food/drink. Speakeasy opening next to SIN Steakhouse.

New York group opening speakeasy, restaurant in Northern Liberties
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...om-nolibs.html

"I just am very bullish on Philadelphia and the Northern Liberties area in general," he said. "We see how many developments are going there, how much new housing is going in, and all those people are going to need to eat."

....

Awesome!!

[New2Fishtown]

Originally Posted by PHLJD13

Whatever happened to our "Night Mayor"

Biggest joke ever.

Philadelphia was far more 24-7 pre-COVID, and even moreso pre the post-recession boom of 2010 to present. I think this is generally true across major cities: the more affluent and gentrified they become, the more certain 24-7 staples go away. Counterintuitive perhaps given how much the aggregate spending power of CC's population has gone up, but affluence brings NIMBYism and pearl clutching and also just a lot of more established people who aren't looking for places to go between 1am and 5am.

When I was first going out in Philly in the early 2000's (illegally, because no one ever carded), I had a mental list of all the after hours spots around town. The major nightlife neighborhoods all had at least one if not several places that the party could continue past 2am. Now I can think of Voyeur and...Pen and Pencil, if they still stay open that late? And then of course the diners. All the Midtowns, Little Pete's, etc...again, whether you were out on South Street, in Old City, in Center City, there was somewhere you could go sitdown for food at any hour.

In the most recent pre-COVID boom we got a different kind of 24-7 vibe starting to emerge. Wawa pushed into the city (how quickly that cycle reversed!) and while it's not quite a diner, there were suddenly have a dozen wawa's open 24-7, and a handful of CVS and RiteAids open all night. Then the MFL and BSL started running 24-7 on weekends and whenever I rode it it was mostly civilized (perhaps a little drunken, but usually in a fun way), an incredibly far cry from today. I would take the MFL at 3am in 2019 over the MFL at 7pm in 2024 any day.

This is all to say that while COVID obviously accelerated certain closures and made certain business models untenable, I think Philly's been losing its overnight edge for several decades. I imagine New Yorkers would concur. NYC is still far more constant and late night than Philly, but as it's gotten wealthier the overnight economy has shifted and probably shrunk.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by New2Fishtown

Philadelphia was far more 24-7 pre-COVID, and even moreso pre the post-recession boom of 2010 to present. I think this is generally true across major cities: the more affluent and gentrified they become, the more certain 24-7 staples go away. Counterintuitive perhaps given how much the aggregate spending power of CC's population has gone up, but affluence brings NIMBYism and pearl clutching and also just a lot of more established people who aren't looking for places to go between 1am and 5am.

When I was first going out in Philly in the early 2000's (illegally, because no one ever carded), I had a mental list of all the after hours spots around town. The major nightlife neighborhoods all had at least one if not several places that the party could continue past 2am. Now I can think of Voyeur and...Pen and Pencil, if they still stay open that late? And then of course the diners. All the Midtowns, Little Pete's, etc...again, whether you were out on South Street, in Old City, in Center City, there was somewhere you could go sitdown for food at any hour.

In the most recent pre-COVID boom we got a different kind of 24-7 vibe starting to emerge. Wawa pushed into the city (how quickly that cycle reversed!) and while it's not quite a diner, there were suddenly have a dozen wawa's open 24-7, and a handful of CVS and RiteAids open all night. Then the MFL and BSL started running 24-7 on weekends and whenever I rode it it was mostly civilized (perhaps a little drunken, but usually in a fun way), an incredibly far cry from today. I would take the MFL at 3am in 2019 over the MFL at 7pm in 2024 any day.

This is all to say that while COVID obviously accelerated certain closures and made certain business models untenable, I think Philly's been losing its overnight edge for several decades. I imagine New Yorkers would concur. NYC is still far more constant and late night than Philly, but as it's gotten wealthier the overnight economy has shifted and probably shrunk.

Just speaking about afterhours places, definitely noticed that change. But I always tied that to shifting trends as beer gardens became the predominant 20-30 year old activity, instead of nightlife and clubbing. I see that starting to change now. Mega-clubs are rising in popularity again and there are several underground trance/techno clubs and circuit parties in Philly that go way past 2am now.

[TonyTone]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, one of the worst things to come from covid besides the sickness and death is also the death of 24/7 businesses.

I mean we used to have multiple diners across the city that were open 24/7, Some Walmarts in the metro used to be 24/7 Shit SEPTA just started doing 24/7 weekend service and BANG covid hit and it killed 24/7 businesses.

I see we are slowly getting back to precovid but business hours remain fucked across the US

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by PHLJD13

Whatever happened to our "Night Mayor

More like the Day Mayor. Champion of the sun.

[PHLJD13]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

there are several underground trance/techno clubs and circuit parties in Philly that go way past 2am now.

Where?! Seriously though, don't gatekeep, I wanna go!

[mcgrath618]

A 24/7 diner opened up on Chestnut next to Uniqlo in January 2024. I went with my friends a few times, the food was decent and well-priced. It's such a shame that he chose that time to open...

Edit: February 2020* I should really be looking before I post.

[PurpleWhiteOut]

2300 Market

[Raja]

Re the Penns Landing cap project, it looks like they've erected at least one new pillar for the extended South Street bridge. Progress!

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

A 24/7 diner opened up on Chestnut next to Uniqlo in January 2024. I went with my friends a few times, the food was decent and well-priced. It's such a shame that he chose that time to open...

You mean they opened in February 2020 (NOT Jan 2024), but permanently closed in the pandemic.

https://www.inquirer.com/food/philad...-20200805.html
—quote—
Note: The Chestnut Diner, which opened in February [2020] across from Liberty Place at 1614 Chestnut St., has closed permanently.

And here’s Michael Klein’s Feb 2020 Inky piece written the week Chestnut Diner opened:Center City’s new Chestnut Diner has 24-hour aspirations