The Ultimate Vancouver Rumour Thread!

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

ah oh well

time to move to a real city i guess

Wait...you mean Vancouver's not a real city?

just kidding. I know what you mean, though..

[peters]

http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/planning/capacitystudy/

[urbandreamer]

I thought it's the p.o site?

[officedweller]

Peter Mitham in the BIV says that Austerville and Telus each have sites that are proposed to be developed with a million square feet of space. Sounds like that would involve demolishing the existing Telus building on Seymour Street, since they don't own the EasyPark lot (as far as I know).
He also mentioned Amacon's former proposal for a 42 storey office tower on the Melville site (now owned by Oxford).

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Peter Mitham in the BIV says that Austerville and Telus each have sites that are proposed to be developed with a million square feet of space. Sounds like that would involve demolishing the existing Telus building on Seymour Street, since they don't own the EasyPark lot (as far as I know).

This is the same rumour I mentioned a few pages back. Since other info (total site size, developer, architect) hasn't been revealed I won't comment on that, but when I said we might lose something....Telus. Basically if Telus doesn't get enough office space consolidated here (to move their Burnaby, Edmonton & Toronto offices in with Vancouver) they'll pack up shop everywhere and leave for Toronto. Which would suck.

[golog]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Peter Mitham in the BIV says that Austerville and Telus each have sites that are proposed to be developed with a million square feet of space.

Originally Posted by awvan

This is the same rumour I mentioned a few pages back.

Thanks to officedweller for sharing, and awvan for the original hint & follow-up.

I was walking by the Telus building on Seymour just the other day and couldn't help but thinking how the site would benefit from redevelopment in the current era. There is much room for improvement in the sidewalk presence. Then there is the adjacent multi-level parkade at the corner of Robson & Richards for Telus employees only, which is another low value use of the opportunity in the site as it stands today. To me, it just feels dingy and uncompetitive with the easypark parkade on Richards and the surface lot a block south.

I think the project has merit just for ironing out past mistakes. If it results in the consolidation from other cities to the Vancouver office, that's a big win -- even more so politically than it is in terms of economics or confidence.

[officedweller]

Interesting.
It would be interesting if the proposal was for the full block.
I can't recall who bought up the parkade on the Robson & Richards corner a few years back (Telus doesn't own it), but it was proposed for a mixed use building. The William Farrell building and the atrium were only rebuilt a few years ago - so it would be surprising if those were demolished. If it were a full block redevelopment, they'd be smart to link under Seymour Street to Vancouver Centre (and the Canada Line)

The view cone over that Richards & Robson corner looks like it can allow a substantial building below it (just above the word "Robson" on the map below - about 430 ft?) That's taller than either the Bay Parkade or the EasyPark lot at Richards & Georgia.

Originally Posted by officedweller

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[golog]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The view cone over that Richards & Robson corner looks like it can allow a substantial building below it (just above the word "Robson" on the map below - about 430 ft?)

Read the fine print in an optimistic manner: "450' with discretionary increases to 600' "
the CBD shoulder does extend in such a way to specifically include the block

Since it's in the corporate charter of Bell that its HQ must be located in Montreal (a clause inserted during the privatization of the former Crown corporation [was a handout, done with CN Rail as well and maybe others])...
- Feds require Telus' HQ be located in Vancouver, City of Vancouver acquiesces on height restrictions, Feds allow Kerfoot's stadium proposal, Kerfoot withdraws secret threat to launch an ad campaign about the Feds giving Toronto a free soccer stadium while prohibiting a privately financed one in Vancouver, City of Vancouver escapes the provincial government's desire to shelter development plans of Pavco

crazier things have happened, and this is a rumour thread

[jlousa]

Telus still owns the parkade, the conditions on it's redevelopment were very strict. Pretty well they wanted the buyer to provide replacement parking for the duration of the construction period. Major deal breaker for most developers due to the huge cost and logistics.

Let me predict this, an office tower will be built, Telus will be the name on it, the tower will not intrude into any view cone but it will be ~575K sqft making it one of the largest office towers in the city and the largest as far space goes of all the proposals on the table. No inside info...

[djh]

Are there any undeveloped office sites in the CBD that could accommodate 1million sq. ft.? Any parkades? And how high would that have to be on a standard office floorplate?

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Telus still owns the parkade, the conditions on it's redevelopment were very strict. Pretty well they wanted the buyer to provide replacement parking for the duration of the construction period. Major deal breaker for most developers due to the huge cost and logistics.

Let me predict this, an office tower will be built, Telus will be the name on it, the tower will not intrude into any view cone but it will be ~575K sqft making it one of the largest office towers in the city and the largest as far space goes of all the proposals on the table. No inside info...

And it will be fully financed in one 36 hour span of roaming charges.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by awvan

but when I said we might lose something....Telus. Basically if Telus doesn't get enough office space consolidated here (to move their Burnaby, Edmonton & Toronto offices in with Vancouver) they'll pack up shop everywhere and leave for Toronto. Which would suck.

Great point especially, if history teaches us anything. After all, Telus (then BC Tell) moved their headquarters to Burnaby for just that reason. "The Boot" building was originally supposed to be located in downtown Vancouver but was denied to to its "imposing shadow". Hopefully, the city has learned from its past mistakes but I'll believe that when I see it. Telus is one of the most important headquarters we have and we need to pull out all the stops to keep them right here. The current site should be consolidated with the lots across the alley and a proper aesthetically pleasing 700' tower should be built.

[SpikePhanta]

But what would happen to the boot if a major HQ is built in downtown?

Burnaby vacancy goes up!

[golog]

That's a pretty big gap between what jlousa believes is possible (575,000 sq ft) and what BIV suggests Telus is aiming for (1,000,000 sq ft.) If Telus is consolidating offices nationally, then there is probably some ego at play and they'll also want something tall in addition to just the amount of floor space.

The block is ~ 250' x 500' = 125,000 sq ft. The Kingston and a (city-owned?) Easypark are the only things on the block besides Telus' building and parkade. It's definitely possible the other landlords come to an agreement with Telus. 1,000,000 sq ft would be an 8:1 FSR. Using 50 floors, that is a 141' side length for a square floor plate. I'm no expert, but 1MM sq ft doesn't sound so crazy. City council could sure use some friends now, and the economic backdrop may help this project along as well.

Park Place stats, the biggest office building in the province
694,000 sq ft / 35 fl / 140m, 459ft / completed in 1984 (source: wikipedia)

Originally Posted by SpikePhanta

But what would happen to the boot if a major HQ is built in downtown?

BC Tel boot @ Emporis
How much space is Telus using at the boot, and does anyone have an idea of how much space they would want in a new building?

Recruit a new company using the location, new lower corporate taxes, and contiguous space in a proven building with cheap rent
If no other corporate tenants >> a post secondary campus, it's adjacent to skytrain and central park with Swangard stadium
If no education tenants >> Government. Burnaby, Metro Vancouver, BC, Canada, UN
If no government tenants >> convert to condos
If condos go bust >> hotel+casino. casinos are always the local solution to everything, it's like free money that never runs out

[officedweller]

Thanks for the info JLousa - definitely sounds more promising with Telus still owning the parkade. Maybe this will be an alley-closer.

Telus sold off the Boot years ago.

The tower that was to have been Telus' HQ (in a taller incarnation) is now the Canaccord Tower.

WRT the Higher Buildings Policy - remember that the City interprets it as being subject to (restricted by) the view cones - except the recent policy change that towers are allowed to pierce the QE Park view cone (as One Wall and Shangri-La do). So the view cone trumps any possibility of 600ft.

[wrenegade]

My info is that the development would be two towers, each around 600'. I don't know whether Telus would take both (or one and a portion of the second). Still looks tricky on this site, and probably would require a relaxation in view cones.

[phesto]

The interesting thing about that block is that you can only do residential on the Telus parkade site. So it would make a lot of sense to consolidate the two blocks to get a 120,000 sq ft site to do a large office tower on the Seymour side, with maybe a smaller tower with frontage on Georgia, and then leave the Robson and Richards corner to do a condo tower, with underground parking for the whole site and some streetfront retail on Robson and Georgia.

Telus is not in the development business, so they would likely sell the site to a developer or cut a sale-leaseback deal which is what I presume is being rumored here. I would be a surprised to see them do it without going through a full tender process though, which is typically required from a public company. So probably still a while before we hear anything.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by awvan

Basically if Telus doesn't get enough office space consolidated here (to move their Burnaby, Edmonton & Toronto offices in with Vancouver) they'll pack up shop everywhere and leave for Toronto.

Any idea of their current total combined leased space and future potential requirements? Unlike just another residential tower, this office building rumour seems to have some legs and has certainly piqued my interest. BTW, Telus is locked into the "Boot" long-term, as part of their original sale transaction, which would require them to sub-lease that tower if this one ever goes through.

[hollywoodnorth]

by the sounds of the whole block would have to be in play and stay with me here ... sounds like if it is 2 towers then it would be phased .... ie tower 1 builds while 1 of the 2 parking structures is taken down. .... so that Telus does not lose any parking if that is a deal breaker seems like the above would be the only way to work it.

[vanlaw]

Didn't Telus just move into a nice new building in Toronto?