Lister Block | ? | 6 fl | Renovation

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by flar

That's the natural reaction in our society. Out with the old, in with the new.

Unfortunately most of it happened in the 50s and 60s when urban planning wasn't exactly at its finest.

[SteelTown]

June 23rd is when council will finally determine the fate of the Lister Block.

[realcity]

Just curious .... what does everyone hope to happen on June 23?

I hope the City DOESN'T agree to purchase. I'm holding out for a residential building. There is enough vacant office space in the core. And I'm worried about Park Place if Public Health moves out.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by realcity

Just curious .... what does everyone hope to happen on June 23?

I hope the City DOESN'T agree to purchase. I'm holding out for a residential building. There is enough vacant office space in the core. And I'm worried about Park Place if Public Health moves out.

Correction, there is more than enough vacant office space in the core.

Now, if I were a landlord in downtown Hamilton I would be screaming bloody murder if the city was going to pay anything above market rates to refurbish uninhabitable space, when I had habitable space sitting vacant.

One of the reasons LIUNA doesn't do anything with the space they own is that there is no demand. How about we work to fill what's readily available, causing vacany rates go down, resulting in lease rates going up, and then there's money in refurbishing old buildings to bring on more space in a profitable way.

Ideally, I would like to see a mixed use retail, professional commercial & residential. But, realistically I don't think that would happen.

[Jon Dalton]

I'm sitting on the fence on this one. Ideally the city would find a way to get out of LIUNA's hands as-is, then put out a call for proposals to develop it. If there was some competition, the price would come down. Furthermore, the city's economic development team could research firms that are building or reconstructing buildings according to traditional urban design principles, and contact them to quote on the Lister project.

On one hand, signing the deal would get the renovation started and put demolition behind us albeit at a high cost. On the other hand, we can be sure they will bastardize the fronts of James and King William. As fine a building as it is, the Lister was only meant to be seen from two sides and it will look out of place as this big chunk surrounded by ashphalt.

If the city declines and there isn't a backup plan, you know what's going to happen. (smashey smashey)

[highwater]

This just went out on McHattie's list:

Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008
Time: 6 to 8 pm
Location: Hamilton Convention Centre Room 207, 1 Summers Lane, Hamilton

On January 9, 2008 Councillor McHattie made a motion regarding miniumum property standards for heritage buildings (see http://www.brianmchattie.ca/page2.php?id=70).

As a result, City of Hamilton staff will be holding an open house on proposed amendments to the City's existing Property Standards By-Law to address specific built-heritage conservation standards.



The proposed amendments apply solely to properties which are designated under Parts IV and V of the Ontario Heritage Act, to address minimum standards for heritage properties including:



• Management of heritage attributes, features or elements that are important to the heritage value or significance of designated heritage properties; and



• Appropriate maintenance of vacant or under-utilized designated heritage properties, and in particular damages that can arise from:

- Buildings being boarded up; and

- Utilities being disconnected.



The purpose of the open house is to provide information to designated heritage property owners and the public and receive input on the proposed Property Standards By-Law amendment. Displays will be available for viewing and staff will be on hand to answer questions. There will be no formal presentation.


There are many important heritage buildings, many in the downtown, that would benefit from this bylaw.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by realcity

Just curious .... what does everyone hope to happen on June 23?

I hope the City DOESN'T agree to purchase. I'm holding out for a residential building. There is enough vacant office space in the core. And I'm worried about Park Place if Public Health moves out.

I am torn on this. I fear for the fate of Lister if it is not approved. I am sure LIUNA will say they have no choice but to demolish if the city doesn't agree to the terms of their offer. However, it pains me to see LIUNA successfully extort an exorbatent amount of cash out of the city for Lister's reno. I wholeheartedly agree that this site should never have been considered as a restoration to office space. Ideally, I would love the city to place a counter-offer to purchase LIUNA 'as is', then issue a RFP to restore the property as a conversion for residential use.

The court order for the Ontario Heritage ministry to release the report on Lister was due today. Anyone seen anything on this? The contents of this is sure to have significant ramifications on any political decision on Lister.

As far as Park Place is concerned, I am afraid its fate is already sealed regardless of the outcome of the meeting on the 23rd. After all, public health will be moving into the planned redevelopment at King and Bay along with the school board and the downtown health centre.

[Jon Dalton]

For anyone who hasn't seen it in the last week, here is what the Lister block looks like now:

[hmagazine]

The Ontario Heritage Trust has now disclosed to the public its findings and recommendations regarding the Lister Block, pursuant to the Order of Senior Adjudicator John Higgins of the Information and Privacy Commission.

The full report is attached. Please read the two-page letter of the Honourable Lincoln M. Alexander to the Minister of Culture, which includes:

(a) the Trust’s conclusion that that the Lister Block is a provincially significant building that meets the definition of “property of cultural heritage value or interest of provincial significance” for the purposes of the Ontario Heritage Act (indeed, the Trust found that the Lister Block meets this definition on two bases);

(b) the Trust’s further conclusion that the Lister Block should be submitted for nomination to the Canadian Register of Historic Places; and

(c) the Trust’s recommendation that the Minister of Culture take active steps to protect the Lister Block.

Linc’s message is clear: the Province of Ontario must take action. He describes this as “a significant opportunity for the province to show leadership in the preservation of Ontario’s heritage.” I am hereby showing my support for Linc’s position by calling upon Minister of Culture Aileen Carroll to immediately designate the Lister Block under the Ontario Heritage Act.

Please pass this message along to others who have an interest in the built heritage of Ontario.

I drove by Lister Block both today and Friday. It looks encouraging!

[hmagazine]

see today's article by Dana Brown about the now released heritage report.

Not yet on the site...

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by hmagazine

see today's article by Dana Brown about the now released heritage report.

Not yet on the site...

how about a synopsis

[hmagazine]

sorry about the formating - cop/pasting from a PDF can be tricky sometimes:

From today's Spectator article by Dana Brown:

If Hamilton was unwilling to pro-
tect the Lister Block from demoli-
tion, the provincial government

should've stepped in, says a re-
cently released report from the
Ontario Heritage Trust.

The report, dated June 2006 and
released Friday by order of an adju-
dicator, outlines several potential

measures for the protection of the
historic building, including a
provincially significant designation

and an application to the Canadian
Register of Historic Places.

"The Lister Block is a provincially
significant building that is associat-
ed with provincially significant pat-
terns of Ontario's history and is an
increasingly rare aspect of the
province's heritage," the report says.
"Consequently, the Minister

should use her influence and if nec-
essary her powers under the (On-
tario Heritage) Act to encourage re-
tention of this historic building."
The recommendations were the

result of a municipal battle over a
plan to tear down the building.
In 2006, council approved a her-
itage demolition permit for the
Lister Block, but before the vote
Councillor Brian McHattie asked
the province to intervene.
As a result, then-minister of

Culture Caroline Di Cocco sought
advice from the Heritage Trust, but
the recommendations were never
released.

Ultimately, a new round of nego-
tiations regarding development of

the building began, culminating in a
presentation to council next week
about the latest proposal for the city
to buy the building for $25 million
from Laborers' International Union

of North America (LIUNA). The
province committed $7 million.
Downtown Councillor Bob Brati-

na said the report raises the question
of whether the building is now pro-
tected and whether the city needs to
go to any extreme measures to make
sure it remains standing.

"I think that's going to be the dis-
cussion over the next couple of
days. Whether or not the deal that's
on the table right now is necessary
to retain the building itself," he said.
Bratina also wonders if the report
could have an impact on the fund-
ing of the proposed project, cur-
rently being footed by the city and
the province.

If the current deal falls through,
the heritage demolition permit ap-
proved two years ago could be
valid, said Tim McCabe, city's di-
rector of economic planning and
development. "My understanding

is if they pushed it, legally, they
have a position that the heritage
permit is still valid."

But both Mayor Fred Eisenberger
and McCabe think demolition is an
unlikely option. Eisenberger said

the trust's recommendations to
protect the building are in line with
what's being pursued now and he
doesn't foresee there will be any
impact on the current deal. "I don't
think it's inconsistent with where
we're going, both on the city side
and on the LIUNA side ... Ultimate-
ly, I think everyone now agrees that
the building ought to be saved."

[realcity]

not sure what that means. ??? what's with McCabe's comment? Will it be torn down or not? Can it be torn-down?

[hmagazine]

dunno what that means - but I must say this entire term of council is turning out to be a D-U-D.

They are starting to give lameducks a good name.

[matt602]

I'm not at all worried about the Lister coming down, deal or not. This building has so much attention now, a mouse can't fart in it without getting noticed. LIUNA can't afford any more bad public rep either, so they'll be playing it by the rules (as little as possible still though). I honestly do think the deal may indeed fall apart and LIUNA may seriously consider selling it (the main building) and doing what they wish with their newly flattened properties. We may see Mr. Stinson's name come back up a lot again if this happens.

[highwater]

I'm not worried about it coming down (yet), but I am worried about some of the heritage value such as the arcade, being stripped. Why would they have a metal salvaging company in there if they weren't salvaging things?

[realcity]

I hope you're right Matt. That's a good comment.

[SteelTown]

Well the city's website released the agenda for Monday's big day but nothing for the Lister Block. Guess we won't see the proposed agreement.

[matt602]

Big surprise. Looks like the Lister Block will rival the Red Hill Parkway for "time dragged out before resolving". At least 5 years now and 3 mayors...