Edmonton LRT Growth

[feepa]

Originally Posted by canucklehead2

I dunno about some of those alignment choices. They seem a bit 'round a bout...
You know the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, so I don't know why they just don't go straight now 111 St to the Town Centre site in the original plan, and up the CN ROW in the NE extension plan... It seems like a no brainer to me. Then again, there are a lot of things I think the city doesn't do when it comes to LRT are no brainers, like setting aside ROW's immediately and not allowing developers to build on them. Something other places do, but you know... This is Edmonton...

LOL! The city has plenty of ROW set aside through out the city.

Anyways, to answer your question... which the answer was easily found on the links I provided...

[canucklehead2]

It was more of a comment than a question, and it was because I had seen those maps. Routes 2 and 4 of the NE LRT are needlessly complex. Just go straight down the alignment in front of you. Seems simple enough don't you think?

[feepa]

Originally Posted by canucklehead2

It was more of a comment than a question, and it was because I had seen those maps. Routes 2 and 4 of the NE LRT are needlessly complex. Just go straight down the alignment in front of you. Seems simple enough don't you think?

Yes, but its also logical to look at all possible solutions before coming to one. It's not like they are going to be using routes 2 and 4... and in fact are going to be following the tracks (which branch still TBD)

[rapid_business]

However, if you want to talk intensification, route 2 does make more sense. But when it comes down to cost and ease, the track line wins out.

[feepa]

Mayor calls on suburbs to join push for LRT
Province should pony up for future lines, says Edmonton's Mandel
edmontonjournal.com
Published: 2:40 pm

EDMONTON - Edmonton's mayor is calling on his fellow mayors in the region to support a pitch to Premier Stelmach for more money to build light-rail transit.

"It's too much for any one city to bear, and I think the time has come for the province to help in any way they can," Mayor Stephen Mandel told reporters today.

He spoke after city council endorsed his plan to appeal to regional mayors and to approach the provincial government for LRT money.

Along with requesting money, the mayor intends to ask the province to donate land along Anthony Henday Drive for future LRT lines and park-and-ride lots.

"If they want transit to be a good tool for dealing with CO2 gases, then they're going to have to participate," the mayor said. "We just can't afford to do it."

The city is currently completing extension of its south LRT line to 23rd Avenue, a project mainly funded with federal dollars.

Mandel and city officials are pushing hard to expand the LRT line north to the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology and northeast from the Clareview station to 153rd Avenue.

Council today endorsed a motion by Coun. Amarjeet Sohi, who represents the southeast Ward 6, to fast-track planning for an LRT line into Mill Woods as well.

"We can without question do three lines at once," Mandel told council.

The longterm LRT plan would send transit lines out to St. Albert, Fort Saskatchewan, Beaumont and the international airport.

The mayor has delayed council discussion of his earlier idea to add one per cent to city taxes to help pay for future LRT lines.

City council approved the first stage of the LRT line to NAIT, an LRT tunnel from Churchill station over to the west side of 101st Street at 105th Avenue.

[feepa]

[feepa]

Originally Posted by leendert

Some photo updates taken Feb. 23, 2008 by me:

Girders for the LRT overpass at Whitemud Drive:


Fat concrete pillar for the pedestrian overpass at 111 Street to Southgate station:


Digging and retaining wall for the 111 Street underpass:


Sloping down toward the 111 Street underpass. Taken from 113 Street/61 Avenue:


Unloading sections of rail just south of the South Campus station:


South Campus transit centre. Temperature and time still in Fahrenheit and in EST timezone:


Freshly installed ballast just north of South Campus station:


The Allan block wall is probably around 90% done along 114 Street. They have been working in tents building the wall for most of the winter:


McKernan/Belgravia station:


Looking south from University Avenue:


There are no visible changes to the LRT track bed north of University Avenue since I last took photos in November.

The complete set is available on Flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1177407...7601556467892/

From the Alberta Section...

[feepa]

**touches nose**

The Journal asked Bob Boutilier to share his views on Edmonton's transit future.


Sheila Pratt, The Edmonton Journal

Published: 6:03 am
Here is an edited transcript of his conversation with reporter Sheila Pratt.
- You're a man in a hurry. Why the sudden rush to expand the LRT system across the city and into the region?
Three things. If we don't start getting rights-of-way in place, we're going to run into barriers. I don't want to find ourselves two years from no- tearing down people's houses.

Also, we've got to get out of town as quickly as possible and get to the green fields. That's where we can identify the transit line and station locations ahead of time. We can get the developers to build their skyscrapers there and not in the middle of some residential area or older neighbourhood.
Thirdly, this is a transit-friendly city council. If we don't get started in this cycle, people will be asking ten years from no- why didn't you build the line?
- Edmonton is such a low-density city, does expanding LRT network make economic sense?
Yes, it's a very low-density city, especially compared to Toronto. But building LRT will encourage higher density in some areas.
That's also why it's important to make this a regional system -- to reduce the traffic coming into the city, we need to hook up with St. Albert.
Let's say we stop LRT at NAIT and West Edmonton Mall and Century Place. That's just an internal system for people in the city to run on. It will take many years before it's a good financial model and you'll still have traffic pouring into the city (from the metro municipalities) and I'm trying to (keep the cars out).
- What's your vision for the LRT in 20 years?
Twenty years from now, I see a line right from Edmonton into St. Albert's downtown. I see the line in the south to the Mill Woods shopping centre, absolutely. To the west end, well, LRT should be past West Edmonton Mall and over the Anthony Henday Drive and into a large parking lot. I don't kno- about Sherwood Park to the east.
- Will there be a lot of battles with older neighbourhoods during the next fe- years as the routes get confirmed?
The potential is there for a lot of concern in certain neighbourhoods, but the shift is this: People can no- see the mistakes that were made 10 years ago by not building the line when it would have been much cheaper. The idea 'not in my backyard' doesn't work. There has to be progress that affects the entire city.
It's unfortunate we have to go through areas, but we want to consult with the neighbourhoods to find the best way."
People are also concerned about their land values. But in Toronto, it added $50,000 to $60,000 to the value of a condo to be on a transit line. People don't have that experience here yet.
- What are your immediate goals?
First, find the $800 million to get the NAIT line started in the next fe- months. With its relatively lo- debt load, the city could borro- that money.
Next, transit ridership is lo- and we have to start by getting ridership to increase at the same rate as population growth. And you do that with better service. I expect a very positive reaction from people when LRT opens in the south and we have to build on that momentum.
We also need to build hundreds more bus shelters.
Then we have to increase the cost recovery of the system from nearly 40 per cent to fifty per cent.
In a fe- years, transit operations will be big enough to be run by an independent commission, like in Toronto, rather than a city department.


Ho- will you balance the spending for roads with an expensive LRT system?
You need roads to move goods and services, and keep the traffic flowing through the city. That's why we need the (costly) 23rd Avenue interchange. But for commuting, you need transit. If you just keep building roads, people will use them and you never solve the congestion problem.
- Ho- will you entice independent-minded metro municipalities to work with Edmonton in a regional LRT system?
The ne- regionaI board will be the key. Also, with a regional LRT, municipalities can save money by reducing the need to widen roads.
Of course, the province has to get on board with some funding, and the federal government. We're looking at $2 billion to $2.5 billion for the NAIT line, the south extension and northwest within the city.
"We're not building the NAIT line just to get to NAIT, we're heading to St. Albert. We can't build it to the boundary and, when we get there, wait for funding for the rest. (The federal and provincial governments) have to realize it's not just an Edmonton system, it's the ribbon of steel that ties the region together."
- What was the hardest day you've ever had on the job?
August 13, 2003, the day Toronto lost its electricity in a blackout that stretched into the northeastern U.S. "I was on the subway in rush hour and suddenly it all stopped. I managed to get out, run up the 11 floors of the TTC building. The top bosses were on holidays, so I was one of the acting chief managers. We had to get thousands of people out of the trains and onto the buses and we ran the buses all night.
- Your most enjoyable day on the job?
July 23 to 28, 2002, the week of Pope John Paul II's visit to Toronto. Every day hundreds of thousands of people had to get to different locations and the TTC pulled out all the stops. The last day, 750,000 had to get to the mass site and home. It all went off without a hitch. It was wonderful.
- First impressions of Edmonton?
When I arrived in July, what surprised me right off the bat was the river valley, so wide and beautiful. My wife and I stayed downtown for a fe- months and joined the lawn bowling club at the legislature grounds. All the festivals over the summer, I don't kno- why I didn't kno- about all that. And the shopping is every bit as good as in Toronto.
- What do you do in your spare time?
My wife and I love gardening and we walk in the ravine near the house almost every day. We both collect model trains and the basement is full. My most prized possession is the original Harry Potter Hogwarts Express and last year I bought her the Polar Express train.

Not sure why the w are coming out as - but fill them in where needed...

[rapid_business]

Great to see the momentum continuing on this!

[rapid_business]

From the Edmonton Transit thread... potential routes for West LRT line.

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

Link is here

[feepa]

West LRT may go underground
Tunnel from 142nd Street best route for river crossing and link to U of A line: report
Gordon Kent, The Edmonton Journal
Published: 2:01 am
EDMONTON - The city's transportation department supports a $1.6-billion west-end LRT line that would tunnel under houses near the North Saskatchewan River to reduce neighbourhood disruption and visual impact.

The proposed route from Lewis Estates follows 87th Avenue, travels underground through part of Parkview near the 142nd Street traffic circle, and comes out of the riverbank near the Valley Zoo, according to a consultant's report.

The 10-kilometre line crosses the river on a "mid-level" bridge, goes under the opposite bank and reaches ground-level near the Cross Cancer Institute, before joining the existing south LRT at the Health Sciences station.


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Font:****"The recommendation to council will be to approve this route for more detailed planning," transportation planning manager Brice Stephenson said Tuesday.

Further work would show where houses may need to be demolished and the best locations for stations, he said.

Open houses to gather public feedback are scheduled to be held in April.

The report rejects an alternative route that would use Whitemud Drive over the Quesnell Bridge, then follow Fox Drive and connect with the new South Campus station.

It determined the 87th Avenue alignment would carry up 13,500 more passengers a day, taking them downtown and to the University of Alberta campus from Lewis Estates up to 10 minutes faster.

As well, the cost to build the Whitemud line and buy LRT equipment would be almost $70 million higher. It would cost an extra $4 million a year to operate, with much of that money needed to run the larger number of LRT cars.

Coun. Bryan Anderson, who said the consultant's report is a valid recommendation, doesn't think building the project would be too expensive.

"Establish the most cost-effective routes, and then go to the federal and provincial governments ... and say 'We're heading into a 50-year mass transit plan, here it is, we need your assistance,' " he said.

"That is a considerable distance. It feeds a whole new side of the city ... now you need to go after the funding."

But Mayor Stephen Mandel has called the 87th Avenue route "a huge mistake." He says the large number of single-family houses west of 156th Street make it unsuitable for the high-density development that makes public transit more efficient.

Coun. Karen Leibovici supports the Whitemud-South Campus line, saying it would take west-end residents more directly to their destinations in the south.

If the city can entice drivers to take transit it would also help reduce traffic on the Quesnell Bridge, which will be jammed in 15 to 20 years despite a major overhaul due to start next year, she said.

"Why are we building something which isn't meeting the needs of commuters right now? The rationale keeps being everyone's going downtown. Well, you know what? We have significant employment centres at West Edmonton Mall ... and the northwest, southwest and southeast. That's where people are travelling."

Some residents on the west side of the river aren't enthusiastic about the proposed 87th Avenue route, which city planners have been studying since at least 2005.

Ray Jacobson, president of the Laurier Heights Community League, said the doubts in his area include the possibility that tunneling could one day be scrapped in favour of a long, unsightly bridge across the top of the valley.

"It's very much an overview recommendation. Our concern would be sometime in the future ... those parameters could change and we could see more dramatic changes to the neighbourhood."

gkent@thejournal.canwest.com

[feepa]

Council asked to plan Mill Woods route for LRT (South East Edmonton)
Susan Ruttan, The Edmonton Journal
Published: 2:33 am
EDMONTON - City council is being asked to spend $1.5 million to start planning an LRT from downtown to Mill Woods.

A report going to council's transportation and public works committee next week proposes hiring a consultant to start planning the line.

The first job of the consultant would be to look at 75th Street south of Argyll Road and the impact of an LRT line on vehicle traffic, says the report.


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Font:****Phase 2 of the study will determine the route of the southeast LRT line. That study will build on work done several years ago on a proposed bus rapid transit line into Mill Woods.

Transportation manager Bob Boutilier has scrapped bus rapid transit, including one to Mill Woods, in favour of more LRT.

The BRT route to Mill Woods looked at bringing high-speed buses up Connors Road to Bonnie Doon Shopping Centre. From there the route was either down 83rd Street to Argyll Road and then 75th Street, or east on 90th Avenue to 75th Street and then south to Mill Woods.

The city is already starting to plan expansion of the LRT system northeast beyond Clareview, south beyond Century Park, north from downtown to the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology, and west to Lewis Estates.

"Administration proposes to have the strategic plan for the city's portion of the regional LRT system to city council by the end of 2008," says the report, which goes Tuesday to the transportation and public works committee.

Boutilier and Mayor Stephen Mandel are both pushing the idea of rapid expansion of the LRT system.

However, council was warned this week in a new administration report that it doesn't have funding in place for many capital projects, including LRT, that it wants to do in the next 10 years.

The regional LRT construction plan is expected to cost the city $7.7 billion, and there's currently $450 million in funding available for LRT spending, the report states.

sruttan@thejournal.canwest.com

[SpongeG]

yay millwoods

[feepa]

From the Alberta Section - "Edmonton Public Transit thread"

Originally Posted by leendert

According to the latest 'Making Tracks' newsletter LRT service to McKernan/Belgravia and South Campus station will start April 26, 2009.

Also, some South LRT construction pictures taken by me yesterday (March 22, 2008):

Track bed mostly done north of McKernan/Belgravia station:


Still some concrete work at McKernan/Belgravia station:


Still some wall building and grading required around 74 Avenue:


The Belgravia underpass progress on electrical work (lights on in the tunnel):


Ready for track installation north of South Campus station:


Some track has already been installed south of South Campus:


Southgate station foundation and platform work:


Whitemud LRT overpass ready for bridge deck installation:


A single ballast curb in the median along 111 Street south of Whitemud Drive:


Elevator shaft for Century Park station at Heritage transit centre:


Foundation work for Century Park station/platform:



Some rights reserved:

[feepa]

First step forward for LRT to NAIT
Committee agrees to $45M tunnel even though council hasn't approved full line
Susan Ruttan, edmontonjournal.com
Published: 1:40 pm
EDMONTON - A short but expensive part of Edmonton's new LRT line passed its first hurdle today.

City council's transportation and public works committee approved spending $45 million to build an 180-metre-long tunnel that will eventually be part of a light-rail transit line from downtown to the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology campus.

The decision must still be ratified by the entire council next week.


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Font:****"The gun's to our head," transportation manager Bob Boutilier explained to councillors. "If this were a perfect world, I wouldn't do it this way."

Council won't vote on the full line to NAIT, expected to cost $800 million, until July. However, a huge Epcor Tower building is about to be built in the path of the proposed LRT line, and transportation planners want to build the LRT tunnel under the building at the same time as the tower's four-storey underground parkade.

That means building the $45-million piece of tunnel under the building starting in June, and leaving the rest of the LRT line until approved by council.

By building now, the city stands to save $140 million in construction costs because the tunnel won't need to be as deep.

Councillors seemed enthusiastic about the project, which will take the LRT from Churchill station west to MacEwan campus, then north to Kingsway Garden Mall and NAIT.

sruttan@thejournal.canwest.com
april 8

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...aeafb7&k=52640


----

April 9, 2008

New downtown LRT tunnel OK'd

By FRANK LANDRY, CITY HALL BUREAU - Edmonton Sun

Next stop, NAIT.

A city committee yesterday gave tentative approval to a plan that will see a $45-million LRT tunnel built under the new downtown EPCOR tower.

It's one small piece of what will eventually be a northwest LRT line to NAIT.

"If we don't do this today, I don't think it will get done," Bob Boutilier, the city's transportation manager, told councillors yesterday.

The transportation and public works committee recommended to council that negotiations begin with the building's developer.

The LRT alignment will follow an underground easement from Churchill Station to the surface on 105 Avenue west of 101 Street.

Boutilier said it would cost up to another $140 million if the tunnel is constructed once the EPCOR building is complete.

Preliminary work has started on EPCOR's sleek 28-storey office tower and is slated to be complete by 2011. It's being erected on the Station Lands - a 3.6-hectare plot owned by development company Qualico near 101 Street and 104 Avenue just north of the CN building.

UNDERNEATH A PARKADE

Boutilier said the tunnel will be more than four storeys below ground, running under a parkade.

If approved, work could begin in the coming months and take about a year to complete, he said.

Tracks won't immediately be built in the tunnel, nor will the connection to the Churchill Station be completed until a later date.

That caused some concern.

"We're not going to have a tunnel that connects to anywhere," said Coun. Ben Henderson.

"We're going to have a tunnel to nowhere."

The entire $800-million LRT line to NAIT has yet to receive final approval from city council. It has, however, been designated as the next route.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmo...f-5234411.html

[canucklehead2]

What the city should do IMHO is start building a quick spur line to MacEwan right away, while the tunnel is under construction, so even if the North Line is never built we won't be stuck with a $40 million tunnel to nowhere. At least the 9000 or so students at City Centre Campus will be able to connect to other parts of the city a lot easier than they do now.

[Coldrsx]

WE WONT BE STUCK WITH A TUNNEL TO NO WHERE (aka calgary)

[canucklehead2]

Come on Coldrsx, this is Edmonton. You never know what will happen. You must admit this is a city that frequently does things half-arsed...

[mersar]

The first of the new SD160's has arrived in Edmonton:

Courtesy A.Wong from CPTDB

SD160 with a U2.

[canucklehead2]

If you go buy there today, the cover is off the train. There were ton's of ETS vehicles and personal standing around gawking at it around 11 am this morning... Finally a tangible sign that Edmonton is getting serious about LRT expansion beyond a few stacks of rails and back hoes, lol...