Rapid Transit - Page 55

emge · #**1081** Posted **Jun 4, 2009, 12:13 PM**

The next open house is the only one I could attend, but I'll be there..

Letters to the editor in the Spec do occasionally get published too - not that I have any great hopes for mine, but that's another form of providing input in the time left. And the fact of safety can be specifically addressed with data to back it up.

Then again, I suppose it could have been worse - they could have run two articles, one for each open house, talking about how people were surprised, unsure, angry, etc.

ryan_mcgreal · #**1082** Posted **Jun 4, 2009, 1:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

"My thinking is this would be safer."

His thinking is incorrect.

adam · #**1083** Posted **Jun 4, 2009, 2:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Actually, this state of mind is not specific to residents of any given area in Hamilton, or even Hamilton as a whole. This is a North American mentality. For the most part, North American cities were built during the heydey of the automobile and are designed with the car in mind,

Incorrect in this context. The lower city was designed and built many years before automobiles. The layout and design is all there to support multiple forms of transportation. It is no coincidence that there are more pedestrians and cyclists in the lower city than there are in a suburb that was designed in the 1970's onwards, for example.

FairHamilton · #**1084** Posted **Jun 4, 2009, 2:58 PM**

I'll commit to attending the next Open House next Tuesday. I'll step off the GO Bus at City Hall at 7pm and walk straight to the Sheraton.

Let's try to get more than 20 people. But I get the sinking feeling the only reason the number was provided in the article was to show it was low. If it was say 200 people nothing about the number of people would have been mentioned.

Also, it's quite easy to get a letter in The Spec. I'm 5 for 5, so it's definitely achievable.

ryan_mcgreal · #**1085** Posted **Jun 4, 2009, 4:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam

It is no coincidence that there are more pedestrians and cyclists in the lower city than there are in a suburb that was designed in the 1970's onwards, for example.

Notwithstanding the best efforts of city traffic planners to retrofit downtown streets so everyone other than motor vehicle operators feel unwelcome.

astroblaster · #**1086** Posted **Jun 4, 2009, 6:21 PM**

i should be able to make it.

markbarbera · #**1087** Posted **Jun 4, 2009, 9:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam

Incorrect in this context. The lower city was designed and built many years before automobiles. The layout and design is all there to support multiple forms of transportation. It is no coincidence that there are more pedestrians and cyclists in the lower city than there are in a suburb that was designed in the 1970's onwards, for example.

Actually, to be more correct in context, only a portion of the lower city pre-dates the automobile, roughtly the area bounded by the escarpment, Dundurn Avenue, the waterfront, and Ottawa Street. The design of the lower city beyond was heavily influenced by the automobile.

Your post implies the automobile's popularity and its influence on urban design was a 70's phenomena. Actually, car culture and car-centric urban planning hit its heyday in the postwar period of the 50's. The influence of the automobile in urban planning even predates this post-war period. Hamilton installed its first traffic light the summer of 1925 at the Delta, heralding the new age of the automobile and its influence on the city's urban setting.

So, in proper context, only a small portion of our city was designed in a period that pre-dates North American car culture.

I question your opinion that the layout and design of the lower city supports multiple forms of transportation, and that this has resulted in more pedestrians and cyclists. Are we really making the arguement that the downtown is designed to be pedestrian friendly? Perhaps a better description is that it is less pedestrian-unfriendly than the suburbs. I think you'd find that population density and demographics have a greater influence on the degree of pedestrian and cyclist activity in the downtown core.

omro · #**1088** Posted **Jun 4, 2009, 10:49 PM**

I shall do my best to show up next Tuesday.

markbarbera · #**1089** Posted **Jun 4, 2009, 11:10 PM**

...and be sure to ask why two-way LRT on Main isn't being considered by the Rapid Transit Office. I know I will.

adam · #**1090** Posted **Jun 4, 2009, 11:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

I think you'd find that population density and demographics have a greater influence on the degree of pedestrian and cyclist activity in the downtown core.

Great point mark barbera. So we agree that population density and demographics are contributing factors as to why downtowners see the lower city as a destination and not just a mere conduit to get to and from work.

adam · #**1091** Posted **Jun 4, 2009, 11:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

I think you'd find that population density and demographics have a greater influence on the degree of pedestrian and cyclist activity in the downtown core.

Great points mark barbera. So we agree that population density and demographics are contributing factors as to why those living in the lower city see the downtown as more of a destination than just a simple conduit to drive thru?

markbarbera · #**1092** Posted **Jun 5, 2009, 11:15 AM**

I think the greatest challenge to this city is the fact that the downtown is not viewed as a destination by most of the city residents, including those who live in the lower city.

omro · #**1093** Posted **Jun 5, 2009, 11:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

...and be sure to ask why two-way LRT on Main isn't being considered by the Rapid Transit Office. I know I will.

Indeed I shall. I was on the corner of James/Main yesterday, which is actually a really nice spot and thinking how much better the whole road could be with LRT.

FairHamilton · #**1094** Posted **Jun 5, 2009, 1:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

I think the greatest challenge to this city is the fact that the downtown is not viewed as a destination by most of the city residents, including those who live in the lower city.

I agree.

At a recent BBQ with people from the neighbourhood some were commenting on how good the burgers and dogs were and asked where they were from. I said Reardon's and they said, "Where's Reardon's"? I said on King William, and they said "Where's King William?"

Reardon's has been in Hamilton since 1912, and these were people who'd lived in my neighbourhood (less than 2kms from downtown) for 20 years. Clearly, they never ventured downtown. Or if they did, they didn't get out of their car, or leave Jackson Square.

Sad, but true.

ryan_mcgreal · #**1095** Posted **Jun 5, 2009, 2:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

...and be sure to ask why two-way LRT on Main isn't being considered by the Rapid Transit Office. I know I will.

The newspaper article wasn't entirely correct. The report that recommends two-way LRT on a two-way King in conjunction with a two-way Main is a consultant report by IBI Consulting. Staff have not made a recommendation on whether to endorse the IBI report, and have not presented this report to the Public Works committee or to Council.

The Rapid Transit office tells me they won't even start the process of deciding what configuration to recommend until after the Metrolinx board accepts the Benefits Case Analysis (BCA) on the B-Line, which will assess whether the route warrants BRT or LRT and is due to be presented to the Metrolinx board in July.

omro · #**1096** Posted **Jun 5, 2009, 4:48 PM**

Call me paranoid, but it's almost like warming up the audience. They have put this report out there, and potentially created a bias towards one configuration over the other.

emge · #**1097** Posted **Jun 8, 2009, 3:26 AM**

I was just reading over some of the city's more recent reports. Some good information is reiterated, but I can't believe no one bothered to proofread it. Pictures captioned "Cleaveland" ? People living "below the property line"? Is that the best we can do as a city on our professional reports?!?

Oh well. I'm sure Tuesday's meeting numbers will beat the 20 people who showed up to the West Hamilton meeting. On the one hand it's too bad to see the lower numbers at this point, but on the other hand it means that each person who shows up has a better chance of having their voice heard/reported.

As for what potential configuration happens... in my mind that's a fine point to be debated later, once the big BRT-vs-LRT question is answered.

FairHamilton · #**1098** Posted **Jun 8, 2009, 6:14 PM**

HAMILTON, ON – June 8, 2009 – As Hamilton moves forward with plans to implement rapid transit in Hamilton, we want your thoughts on how you think the rapid transit initiative will best serve Hamilton. Help us by completing a short survey to provide your feedback and identify your preferred rapid transit alignment along the Main King corridor through downtown.

Access the survey online at www.hamilton.ca/rapid-transit or pick up a hard copy at some City of Hamilton offices, local libraries or municipal service centres. Comments are welcome at any time, but responses received by July 31, 2009 will be included in the September 2009 staff report to Council.

FairHamilton · #**1099** Posted **Jun 9, 2009, 7:34 PM**

This is today/this evening!!! Actually it's on right now.

Quote:

Residents can learn more about the staff preference at an open house next Tuesday at the Sheraton Hotel, between 3 p.m. and 8 p.m.

Omro, his brother, Deborah and I will be there tonight. If traffic is normal, Deb and I expect to be there around 7pm.

highwater · #**1100** Posted **Jun 9, 2009, 9:22 PM**

Just got back from the 4pm presentation. Sorry I'm missing you guys.

Nothing much new if you've been following things and have already seen the survey. Still, it was interesting to see how far ahead (or not, as the case may be) they're thinking is on design, impacts, etc. For example they are already working with the MTO on alternative ramps for the 403 if and when King and Main go back to two-way.