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  #261  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2022, 6:22 PM
Summerville Summerville is offline
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Originally Posted by OliverD View Post
The correct position is that people should have that option if they choose to.

Keith can have many thoughtful comments. But his hankering to rant against bike lanes is puzzling.

He has commented on CBC articles saying the city should persuade people from using bikes altogether. How does that position even make sense?

The city is not putting a bike lanes on every street. The city is instead created certain bike routes so that people who choose to cycle, can use a bike lane or share the road with the cars.

I agree that the current initiative by the city is to create a more live-able city that caters to everyone.

And once again, the federal government has bankrolled many of Halifax's new bike lane initiatives out of a fund that is directly associated with active transportation.
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  #262  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2022, 8:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Summerville View Post
Keith can have many thoughtful comments. But his hankering to rant against bike lanes is puzzling.

He has commented on CBC articles saying the city should persuade people from using bikes altogether. How does that position even make sense?

The city is not putting a bike lanes on every street. The city is instead created certain bike routes so that people who choose to cycle, can use a bike lane or share the road with the cars.

I agree that the current initiative by the city is to create a more live-able city that caters to everyone.

And once again, the federal government has bankrolled many of Halifax's new bike lane initiatives out of a fund that is directly associated with active transportation.
Quite simply, the city is choosing to punish motorists and commercial truck traffic by shoehorning bicycle lanes on to streets that were already undersized and thus making them largely unusable.

Now if the city wants to use that federal largesse to expropriate property to widen the ROW in such areas, or even better, put it to a vote of the electorate as to whether they should do what they want to do, then I would be far more amenable to going along with the result. Right now it seems clear that the bike lane initiative is due to a largely empty-headed and clueless Council being led around by the nose in what was sold as a feel-good initiative by a handful of activist Council members in league with the HCC.
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  #263  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2022, 8:21 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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Originally Posted by OliverD View Post
Simple logic dictates that if 1/3 of cyclists do not feel safe, then some segment of the population is not cycling for that same reason.

Cycling itself is also not inherently dangerous. What's dangerous is cycling using infrastructure designed for motor vehicles, filled with many motorists who only see cyclists as a nuisance and don't recognize their rights on the road.
I would suggest to you that the 1/3 who claim to feel "unsafe" are the most avid and zealous cyclists.

I would also submit that a transportation device that is unable to keep from crashing to the ground without operator intervention, and provides zero crash protection to its user, is indeed inherently unsafe. Many cyclists are injured using paths and trails where there are no motor vehicles nearby at all, but crash and fall due to environmental conditions, suffering injuries that are in many cases quite serious.
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  #264  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2022, 4:53 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by OliverD View Post
I don't think your caveat at the end is necessary at all. It shouldn't be controversial to support a diversity in transportation options.

I would say the majority of pragmatic urbanists support the option of private automobile ownership. What they don't support is the prioritization of cars over every other form of mobility, every time, everywhere - certainly not if that compromises any aspect of driving your own car. I think the pushback from people who simply accept car dependency without a second though exasperates those of us who simply want alternative ways of getting around.

Personally, I'm a huge car enthusiast. It's important to me what kind of car I drive, and it always has been. I can't foresee a world in which I don't own one or more cars. But I get zero pleasure out of commuting, or driving to a big box store in the suburbs. I walk to work, I walk to visit friends, I walk to local bars and restaurants, to the market, to the grocery store, etc. Doing so poses a very real danger to my health and safety that mostly doesn't exist for drivers traveling to those same destinations. I have to be more careful and more diligent, because we default to prioritizing motor vehicles. And I live in a downtown neighbourhood!

And yet, many people simply refuse to consider compromises that may marginally slow drivers down to better accommodate pedestrians, bicyclists, and transit users.
My take on it:

People who live outside the downtown, but need to go there for work or other reasons will want to take their cars for timeliness, convenience, to stay out of the weather, etc. Transit options for these people are sketchy at best, for now and the foreseeable future. Therefore, when discussions center around restricting or removing car use from some area(s), they naturally push back because they see these options as making life more difficult for them.

People who live in the downtown, or just outside it, suffer from the influx of motor vehicles the most, and understandably see the negative effects of it more than anybody. They have the most reason to complain about other peoples' cars making life difficult for them.

I think, given the choice, most people would prefer to live close enough to everything to be able to walk there, rather dealing with the stress of driving in traffic. But life is never that simple, as living downtown is not a good option for many people due to affordability, the lack of desire to live in a condo/apartment situation, etc. As in everything, there are sacrifices/compromises that have to be made.

I think most of the strife on this forum arises from:

1) Even though it's been clear for a long time that Halifax is growing and needs to improve ways of getting around, the government has been slow to react, and definitely has not been proactive. People want good options for getting around, but unfortunately for many, the car is still the best choice... so people take their cars, and are perceived to be the problem when in fact they are only reacting to the problem.

2) There will always be the anti-car, anti-bicycle, anti-this, anti-that contingent on this forum using up much of the oxygen in the room... caveats like MonctonRad's are posted for the expectant comments that would undoubtedly spew from one side or the other.

3) The city government's lack of focus on providing good alternatives:
- Our bus service is improving but still mediocre, and definitely not enough.
- Bicycling is great exercise and is fun to do in nice weather, but it has its limitations in terms of being an actual option for mass transit as I firmly believe that even with good infrastructure most people will not want to cycle in bad weather, if they have tight schedules and large distances to cover, etc.
- Fast ferries will be a great addition, but still will not be enough.
- Rail/underground transit does not even appear to be on the table for discussion at the moment, unless I'm missing something.

In general, I think that many people are not really happy with the level of infrastructure development in Halifax. For too many years it was virtually ignored and now the city is left playing catch-up in the midst of an unexpected population boom, making things that much worse.

Finally, a caveat lest I be accused of being anti-cycle for my above comments:
I too am a car enthusiast, but perhaps more accurately a transportation enthusiast. I love to cycle, but am in agreement with many that cycling is currently dangerous in most places due to the lack of decent cycling infrastructure. IMHO, the city should have started building bicycle infrastructure over 30 years ago, but didn't, and thus has been trying to catch up on something that most cities already have handled.

That said, in terms of the general population, I think that cycling still has its limitations for most people who won't cycle in bad weather, or can't choose that option for other reasons. Thus I do have concerns at times that its ability to become a method to move volumes of people is overstated a little, and tend to think that people who seem to be against bicycle lanes, etc., have just become frustrated by the city's apparent focus to play catch-up with cycling infrastructure while apparently not even looking at other viable options, such as rail/underground, etc.


Last edited by OldDartmouthMark; Mar 2, 2022 at 4:55 PM.
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  #265  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2022, 1:45 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is offline
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Not once in all my driving years have I found myself thinking that the bike lanes on a street made my drive harder.

Literally the only two "improvements" to the Halifax road network over the last few years that I can think of that have made things worse are:
  1. the lane jog on Robie southbound just south of Cunard that arose from the addition of the transit lane.
  2. Robie and Young intersection since the configuration for the transit lanes.

All of the bike lanes have either been neutral from a driver standpoint, or actually improved things because they came along with a proper rethink of the road design. And they've certainly been an improvement from a cycling standpoint.
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  #266  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2022, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by IanWatson View Post
Not once in all my driving years have I found myself thinking that the bike lanes on a street made my drive harder.

All of the bike lanes have either been neutral from a driver standpoint, or actually improved things because they came along with a proper rethink of the road design. And they've certainly been an improvement from a cycling standpoint.
Two words: Hollis Street.

Three words: Lower (or Upper, take your pick) Water Street
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  #267  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2022, 8:56 PM
MastClimberPro MastClimberPro is offline
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What's wrong with Hollis Street and Lower Water?

I drive on Hollis at least 2-3 times a week, often more, anywhere from the interchange to the Westin, entering and exiting it just about any way you can at a variety of times throughout the day. I drive Lower Water slightly less but just as varied.

My habits of where I stop, shop, visit, park haven't changed significantly as those streets have changed over the years. Each time something changes I grumble for a week or two because I forget the innovations and then settle back into not being bothered by it because ultimately the difference has altered drive times 3-5% at the most when using Hollis and Lower Water in a car . No hardship.
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  #268  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2022, 11:16 PM
Summerville Summerville is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Two words: Hollis Street.

Three words: Lower (or Upper, take your pick) Water Street

Did lower and water streets ever have more than one lane going one way? It would seem to me that the only thing that was lost with bike lanes were the parking spaces.
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  #269  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2022, 1:21 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is offline
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They used to have two, but they were never particularly functional. They were narrow and with parked cars and the bottleneck at Historic Properties it wasn't like they allowed for free-flow traffic.

I lived on Hollis for 5 years, so drove both streets a lot. I can't say the bike lanes ever affected my driving experience.

EDIT: Even further back they used to be two-way. There was no parking. Look at this gem of a roadblock (and no bike lane in sight!): https://goo.gl/maps/gjbBaTVvqN8znkzbA
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  #270  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2022, 1:45 PM
Arrdeeharharharbour Arrdeeharharharbour is offline
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I remember these streets as having two traffic lanes with street parking only being permitted during certain hours. Covid-causing near empty office towers and much reduced tourism hasn't given us much of an opportunity to assess the effects of more restricted traffic flow, at least in the case of Lwr. Water St. But even if there is restricted traffic flow resulting from the bike lanes, it would so much less of an issue than the extremely poor spending decisions that resulted in the bike lanes in the first place. I should clarify that the extremely poor spending decisions is in terms of tax payers dollars (not)resulting in the greater public good and not in terms of getting re-elected.
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  #271  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2022, 8:11 PM
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TheNovaScotian TheNovaScotian is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Two words: Hollis Street.

Three words: Lower (or Upper, take your pick) Water Street
Hollis Street actually functions better since the bike lanes went in and it went down to 1 lane.
I drive it almost daily, because going southbound it's now the fastest way by car. When it had two lanes at the corner of Sackville St. so many people would make illegal lane changes in the intersection or try to cut off people beforehand.

Do I see the bike lanes used often by people? ....no..
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  #272  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2022, 4:59 PM
Half-Axed Half-Axed is offline
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Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian View Post
Hollis Street actually functions better since the bike lanes went in and it went down to 1 lane.
I drive it almost daily, because going southbound it's now the fastest way by car. When it had two lanes at the corner of Sackville St. so many people would make illegal lane changes in the intersection or try to cut off people beforehand.

Do I see the bike lanes used often by people? ....no..
Agreed - the lane is clearly delineated now. Before the changes people were all over the place and didn't know which lane to be in.

Soooo...how's that SGR streetscaping project coming along?
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  #273  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2022, 10:26 AM
atbw atbw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNovaScotian View Post
Hollis Street actually functions better since the bike lanes went in and it went down to 1 lane.
I drive it almost daily, because going southbound it's now the fastest way by car. When it had two lanes at the corner of Sackville St. so many people would make illegal lane changes in the intersection or try to cut off people beforehand.

Do I see the bike lanes used often by people? ....no..
2 things:

1. The main way into that lane is through the Cogswell interchange which is stressful on a bike to say the least. So again it's a victim of Halifax's archipelago of bike infrastructure.

2. Totally agree on it being a more straightforward street. Only regular issue is people trying to get in from the left lane coming in from Cogswell, but that's more of an issue with Cogswell.

And a bonus, in rush hour traffic, it's not much of a sweat to beat traffic in a bike, since the green wave of lights rolls at about 30 km/h.
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  #274  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2022, 10:27 AM
atbw atbw is offline
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Originally Posted by Half-Axed View Post
Agreed - the lane is clearly delineated now. Before the changes people were all over the place and didn't know which lane to be in.

Soooo...how's that SGR streetscaping project coming along?
Back on topic...pretty ok? Looks like benches are all up and there's a nice variety of seating. It won't really feel complete until landscaping is in.
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  #275  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2022, 4:09 PM
Aegon123 Aegon123 is offline
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This looks great in person, but one thing really bothers me. The sidewalks don’t seem to be finished on the ends of this project (the Queen Street and Spring Garden gateways). It just looked like they gave up and poured pavement in to fill in the gaps. Any info if this will be finished?
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  #276  
Old Posted May 31, 2022, 6:20 PM
coastalkid coastalkid is offline
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Landscaping is finally going in along the street. It's starting to look quite nice.


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  #277  
Old Posted May 31, 2022, 6:28 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Looks good! The first photo gives me the idea that the new street light fixtures may be intended to imitate construction cranes?

So is tomorrow the start date for this street to become transit-only?
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  #278  
Old Posted May 31, 2022, 7:20 PM
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LikesBikes LikesBikes is offline
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Agreed, I think that looks great.

The City website says the bus-only pilot is now scheduled for late June.
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  #279  
Old Posted May 31, 2022, 7:53 PM
atbw atbw is offline
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Originally Posted by LikesBikes View Post
Agreed, I think that looks great.

The City website says the bus-only pilot is now scheduled for late June.
I will admit this might be an absolute mess given that the logical detour around SGR via Morris is unusable right now due to the Morris/University & South Park intersection being closed for construction. At the very least, they should implement some kind of traffic control at Brunswick & SGR to clear out the queue of cars that build up there.
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  #280  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2022, 9:27 AM
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