The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread

[esquire]

The need has become apparent for a thread to discuss how many people are attending sports events in this country.

Let's talk!

[JHikka]

Thanks for making this. I'll repost my original post from the CFL thread:

Originally Posted by JHikka

I really don't want to start raising any red flags but the attendance in Calgary last night was the lowest for a Stampeders game in twenty years. 24,613 is the lowest attendance for a regular season game in Calgary since Week 6, 1997 against Winnipeg.

It's easy to give Toronto a hard time but nobody seems to be raising this point about last night's game.

Please don't chase me out with pitchforks.

Calgary's season averages have been as follows:
2008: 32,523
2009: 36,502
2010: 30,715
2011: 30,539
2012: 28,665
2013: 29,263
2014: 29,559
2015: 30,154
2016: 27,474

It mimics a general trend across the league of declining gate figures. Obviously some teams have built newer, smaller stadiums (Hamilton, Winnipeg, Saskatchewan) but others (Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, Toronto, and a lesser extent Montreal) have declining gate figures in stable venues. Vancouver is the most jarring, going from a 34K average in 2008 to 21K in 2016. Edmonton's high 30Ks have declined to low 30Ks.

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'd rather some constructive discussion over why numbers are fluctuating or going up or down rather than attacking my posts. Is that possible?

Maybe something like "Oh, the stadium in Calgary is old..." or "Oh, the marketing is different this year". It's not as if the game isn't exciting - I thought last night's game was fantastic. So what's the deal? The product isn't really all that bad and the gamedays are pretty exciting, so why are in-person numbers dropping across the board? Toronto's season ticket holders halved over the off-season, Calgary's home-opener was the lowest matchday crowd in twenty years, Vancouver's physical gate is on a decline...what gives? Genuinely curious - but anytime I bring it up or ask I get told I don't understand it.

[DrJoe]

The Jays are currently 6th in the MLB averaging 38,907 fans per game and just 130 back of 4th, which is the Yankees.

Just goes to show like back in the 90s that Toronto can average with the big boys if the team is decent.

I would like to see how any market would do after 20+ years out of the playoffs like Jays fans suffered through.

[khabibulin]

If possible, it looks like the crowd at the game tonight is even smaller than the opening game crowd (13.5k). Of course this is just based on random camera shots at this point.

[GORDBO]

The crowd at BMO tonight looks less than what they would have at Rogers Centre.
The one thing I've noticed over the last few years here in Winnipeg. Less families attending,most likely due to overpriced tickets/concession/parking . 20 years ago, decent seats could be had for $ 18- adult, $ 12 - student. comparable ticket would now be over $ 50. Add in the high concession prices, and you have parents either going to less games as a family or leav ing the kids at home. Which can't be a positive thing for a "gate driven " league.

[blueandgoldguy]

Miller and the Bombers have done something to address the expensive tickets in Winnipeg with reduced concession prices and discounted season tickets for people with children in the family endzone and the corner upper deck. A family of 4 can now attend 11 games (counting a home playoff game) for a total of $726. That's $66 per game for an entire family.

Argos celebrating Canada's 150th birthday with 150 people in attendance tonight at BMO Field.

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

If possible, it looks like the crowd at the game tonight is even smaller than the opening game crowd (13.5k). Of course this is just based on random camera shots at this point.

Official attendance is 11,219 at BMO field.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

Official attendance is 11,219 at BMO field.

I got word it was ~9,000 gates tonight from an MLSE source.

There were rumours it would be 4,000 tonight, but nobody wanted to believe it was true.

I said from day one of this move to BMO that the new ownership group was gambling with all its chips on the table. They had no choice to move but Rogers Centre, for all its flaws, was still much easier to get to for the majority of its suburban fans. BMO Field is never easy to get to unless you are taking the GO Train into Exhibition Stadium.

At this point, my bet still stands that the Toronto Wolfpack Rugby will beat the Argos in attendance for a game this year. Adam Lamport Stadium holds max. 9K people so this is not hard to achieve.

To me, it is just getting pathetic. This market won't learn anything until the Argos go away for a while. The city has become apathetic towards them; nobody gives a fuck about them aside from maybe 50K people.

[khabibulin]

Wow! You really changed your tune from last week!

osmo
Registered User

A far better start than last year...
Small crowd but everyone there was invested and into it 100%. We had a booth again this game and have started a deal to be there half the season. This crowd was smaller but WAY more intense. You had no part-time fans there and it was all CFL diehards. I watched all the 4th quarter and crowd was rocking. I don't think the Argos will peak above this gate (16K), but it is much better to have all the fsns there fully invested versus a bunch of passive types on their phone the whole game which was common last year (I suspect less freebies are out this year).

I admit I had s good time. I miss football and sun on my face so you might even catch me at a game this year.

[GORDBO]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Miller and the Bombers have done something to address the expensive tickets in Winnipeg with reduced concession prices and discounted season tickets for people with children in the family endzone and the corner upper deck. A family of 4 can now attend 11 games (counting a home playoff game) for a total of $726. That's $66 per game for an entire family.

Argos celebrating Canada's 150th birthday with 150 people in attendance tonight at BMO Field.

Is there some kind of family pricing for a single game though? We would take the grand daughters to a couple games if there was .

[OutOfTowner]

I go to one Al's game every year - I feel it's my duty to do so and it's fun!

I go to 5-6 Impact games every year - reasonable prices - much fun!

I go to no Habs games every year (unless I get free tickets) - I have better things to do than to spend 9 million dollars on tickets, hotdogs, beers - even though it's tons of fun!

[Horus]

Originally Posted by DrJoe

The Jays are currently 6th in the MLB averaging 38,907 fans per game and just 130 back of 4th, which is the Yankees.

Just goes to show like back in the 90s that Toronto can average with the big boys if the team is decent.

I would like to see how any market would do after 20+ years out of the playoffs like Jays fans suffered through.

The Jays attendance only surged in 2015 when the team was in a playoff race and in the 1.5 years since (including last year's playoff race/run)

Prior to that, they were a middle-of-the-pack team in terms of attendance.

These are the attendance stats as of Jul 1, 2015, just before the Jays went on their playoff push. At the time, they were 42-38, in a tie for 3rd place, just 1GB first place Baltimore.


http://3rdlinegrind.com/2015/07/01/m...ort-june-2015/

Kansas City, which had a nearly equally long period of futility, saw a major attendance spike that year as they (finally) had a good team.

The Jays are doing better at the gate because they have been doing better on the field. Simple.

[DrJoe]

Yes as I said if they have a decent team they can draw as good as any market in the league.

My point simply was that any franchise in the league, whether it be the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, anyone would struggle to draw decent crowds if their team went on a 20 year streak out of the playoffs or even contending for a playoff spot.

[Berklon]

The Argos won the Grey Cup and the next year their attendance got worse. And their attendance numbers were rigged back then - they were getting around 15k a game at the Skydome.

Winning isn't the issue... the stadium isn't the issue... it's the product. Toronto isn't interested in the CFL. It's pretty simple. Remember, they were giving away free tickets to the Grey Cup last year.

And it's not just Toronto... BC and Montreal aren't doing much better in attendance either. Hell, BC had the 2nd best record in the league - and their attendance continues to fall. Calgary is slipping as well.

Should the CFL be worried about attendance?

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Berklon

The Argos won the Grey Cup and the next year their attendance got worse. And their attendance numbers were rigged back then - they were getting around 15k a game at the Skydome.

Winning isn't the issue... the stadium isn't the issue... it's the product. Toronto isn't interested in the CFL. It's pretty simple. Remember, they were giving away free tickets to the Grey Cup last year.

And it's not just Toronto... BC and Montreal aren't doing much better in attendance either. Hell, BC had the 2nd best record in the league - and their attendance continues to fall. Calgary is slipping as well.

Should the CFL be worried about attendance?

Will the citizens of those cities be happy if the CFL dies? Will they care?

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Will the citizens of those cities be happy if the CFL dies? Will they care?

For the most part, they won't be happy or sad... they just won't care. At least that's the feeling in Toronto... and from what I've heard Vancouver may be in a similar situation.

The biggest problems is the fan base is getting older faster than the CFL can replace them with younger fans. The next TV contract will be interesting as the key demographic for advertisers is already small and will probably continue to get smaller - making the contract worth less.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Berklon

For the most part, they won't be happy or sad... they just won't care. At least that's the feeling in Toronto... and from what I've heard Vancouver may be in a similar situation.

The biggest problems is the fan base is getting older faster than the CFL can replace them with younger fans. The next TV contract will be interesting as the key demographic for advertisers is already small and will probably continue to get smaller - making the contract worth less.

I can't see it being any larger, I would think advertising in print media is pretty much a dead horse and advertising on video media will be going that way what with people able to record programs on DVR's and then skip through commercials while watching their recorded program at their convenience.

As for Calgary's recent low attendance this past Thursday, I do suspect a good number of potential seat warmers were already headed to the mountains or elsewhere to do a bit of camping for the long weekend - traffic was considerably lighter during Thirsday's PM rush and Friday's AM rush was almost non-existent. Case in point, a good 25% of the people at my current job site were gone for the long weekend by noon on Thursday and I would say it was easily less than half of the regulars there on Friday to work.

[DrJoe]

I actually think DVR's are driving up the value of live sports broadcasting as most people like to watch sporting events, commercials and all, as they happen and it's always going to be that way. They are somewhat immune to the DVR. Very few people will record a sporting event and watch it later although yes it does happen.

[nickp]

The CFL is going to have to address this attendance issue

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by DrJoe

I actually think DVR's are driving up the value of live sports broadcasting as most people like to watch sporting events, commercials and all, as they happen and it's always going to be that way. They are somewhat immune to the DVR. Very few people will record a sporting event and watch it later although yes it does happen.

Yea, I think that's accurate.

Personally, I hate the idea of watching a game and "cheering" for something that's already happened.