Halifax Stadium Discussion

[sdm]

we can't lose this venue, i mean Moncton doesn't even have a team dammit.......

Sadly, we can't afford everything; trade centre, four plex, library, new metro centre, new stadium etc. So we must prioritize, which council has clearly not done, nor have the universities.

Council needs a immediate vision and this should be the final straw that broke the camels back. Time for Kelly to leave.....

[Empire]

Originally Posted by sdm

we can't lose this venue, i mean Moncton doesn't even have a team dammit.......

Sadly, we can't afford everything; trade centre, four plex, library, new metro centre, new stadium etc. So we must prioritize, which council has clearly not done, nor have the universities.

Council needs a immediate vision and this should be the final straw that broke the camels back. Time for Kelly to leave.....

NS politicians and media (media didn't hold politicians accountable) fumbled the ball 26 years ago when the Atlantic Schooners were allowed to fold because no one would support a $6 million stadium. Sadly politicians and media have never even attempted to recover that horrific fumble.

Halifax wins CFL franchise but lets it go...1984...no stadium
Halifax wins right to represent Canada in bid for Commonwealth Games but lets it go...2007..no stadium
Halifax doesn`t try to host regular season CFL game after Ottawa folded 2006 ...no stadium
Halifax loses Uteck Bowl 2010 no stadium...
Moncton hosts CFL game and snags Uteck Bowl because they have a stadium 2010....

[fenwick16]

There is a wide variation in the cost of building a stadium: I found the following link to be very interesting - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=46827483

I like a number of the economically priced stadiums - the Cardiff City Stadium looks good - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_City_Stadium . It would have to be stretched to be suitable for Canadian football though.

(source: Lucky Lucas - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=46827483 )

[-Harlington-]

NHL to follow CFL?
Published Tuesday September 21st, 2010
It's possible, says city official who brings world sports excellence to Moncton




Imagine attending a Toronto Maple Leafs-Montreal Canadiens regular season NHL game.
GREG AGNEW/TIMES & TRANSCRIPT
A worker assembles the north grandstand earlier this year at the Stade Moncton 2010 Stadium. Might the stadium someday host an NHL outdoor Winter Classic game?

In the critical late season.

In Moncton.

Outdoors.

"We certainly would be interested in looking at it," says Ian Fowler, Moncton's general manager of economic development, tourism and culture.

The NHL is quietly polling Canadians on their interest in a whole series of regular-season, outdoor hockey games that would be hosted by non-NHL cities.

The world's premier hockey league's interest is piqued by the success of their annual Winter Classic games, New Year's Day games held in huge venues like football stadiums, which coincidentally, the Stade Moncton 2010 Stadium has now been transformed into for Sunday's CFL game between the Edmonton Eskimos and the Toronto Argonauts.

The Winter Classic games are perennial sellouts, generating a flood of good publicity for the league, attracting new fans and prompting massive television ratings.

While the league won't confirm or deny that it is polling Canadians on the idea - in fact, it won't say anything on the topic at all - several people who have been polled say there is no doubt the league is gauging interest in outdoor regular-season games in non-NHL markets because the questions in the poll ask specifically about that and leave no room for ambiguity.

An outdoor NHL game in Moncton is not beyond the realm of the imagination for Fowler. In fact, his department and the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League's Moncton Wildcats have already mused about holding a game at the stadium, located on the Université de Moncton campus, though at this point it is just that: musings.

"We've explored it, and some of our people have already talked to ice makers," Fowler says.

Not surprisingly, playing a hockey game outdoors isn't rocket science to Canadians. Portable ice-making equipment is readily available for rent, as are temporary NHL-standard hockey boards.

"So we are quite aware of the mechanics of how it's done."

There is "no question" the City of Moncton can host an NHL game, Fowler says. "We can do anything within the realm of possibility."

When the world came to Moncton in 1999 when the city hosted the Summit of the Francophonie, many feared the city would be overwhelmed. It didn't happen.

Doubters abounded when the city announced it would host The Rolling Stones back in 2005, but those who fled for the hills to avoid concert-day mayhem now rue the day that they missed the greatest rock band in musical history.

Even with the city's flawless record of successfully hosting national, international and world sports, musical and political events, some feared the city would never manage to successfully pull off the World IAAF Junior Track and Field Championships this summer, which were universally hailed as the best in the history of the sport, including the best venue ever for a world junior track meet.

An NHL game would mean a lot of work for a lot of people, but is absolutely something the city would consider, Fowler says, and he won't wait to be asked to host the game but will pitch Moncton to the NHL as soon as possible.

"We've got to be a frontrunner."

The stadium normally seats about 10,000, but temporary bleachers for Sunday's CFL game has boosted that total to about 21,000, the tickets for which sold out the first morning they went on sale.

So seating wouldn't be an issue provided that number suits NHL brass, which it might not. For example, last year's Winter Classic at Fenway Park between the Boston Bruins and Philadelphia Flyers attracted 307,500 ticket requests, or nine times the stadium's capacity.

However, should outdoor games be held several times per season in non-NHL cities, it is expected the demand for tickets would be lower per game compared to having just one Winter Classic every New Year's Day in a mega-hockey market, which this season features the Washington Capitals at the Pittsburgh Penguins at 2 p.m. at Heinz Field, home of the Pittsburgh Steelers, with a seating capacity 65,050.

As well, care would have to be taken to safeguard the natural grass surface of the stadium, as well as the running-track surface, the most advanced in the world and the exact same surface being used for track events at the 2012 London Summer Olympics.

Those challenges are thought to be relatively easy to surmount, however.

Should the NHL decide to proceed with outdoor regular-season games in non-league markets, the league is not expected to do so before 2012 at the earliest.







Everything bolded makes me wish we had the kind of leadership and vision they have, after reading that and looking at halifax and the things we say and do i died a little inside
i love this city and just wish it would get the frickin picture here.

[q12]

Halifax mayor bemoans football loss
Last Updated: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 | 5:51 PM AT Comments 78
CBC News

Halifax Mayor Peter Kelly says he's been blindsided by news his city could lose a major athletic event to Moncton.

The Uteck Bowl, a university football national semifinal, will be held at the new stadium at the Université de Moncton and may not return to Halifax until 2017.

Atlantic University Sport is expected to announce the details on Wednesday.

Kelly said he's troubled by this news.

"We have a large tradition here and it has worked very well. And to take it from here and put it elsewhere is a concern and needs some further follow-up," he told CBC News.

The Uteck Bowl is named after Larry Uteck, a football star, university coach and city councillor who died eight years ago. Saint Mary's University has hosted the tournament, held every two years, since 2003.

But Halifax's football hosting duties go back even further. Before the Uteck Bowl, the Atlantic Bowl was played in Halifax regularly over three decades.

Steve Sumarah, head coach of the Saint Mary's Huskies, said there were discussions about moving the Uteck Bowl to Moncton last year.

He said it would be disappointing to lose the game because it's a big cultural and sporting event, as well as a money-maker for Halifax.

Huskies Stadium is half the size of the new stadium in Moncton.

The $23-million facility at the Université de Moncton can seat up to 20,000 fans. The IAAF World Junior Track and Field Championships were held there in July.

The Edmonton Eskimos and the Toronto Argonauts will play in Moncton on Sunday before a sellout crowd. It will be the first regular season CFL game in Atlantic Canada.

-----
Read the 78 comments there too. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia...-football.html

Maybe the mayor should stop spending time swimming in the harbour for photo ops, and do something to promote this city with something substantial like a new stadium.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by -Harlington-

Everything bolded makes me wish we had the kind of leadership and vision they have, after reading that and looking at halifax and the things we say and do i died a little inside
i love this city and just wish it would get the frickin picture here.

I know what you mean - I wish these statements were being made by Halifax area politicians. Moncton area leaders sought an achievable goal and obtained it (a $20 million dollar stadium). I hope that Halifax area leaders will learn from that. However, I think that Halifax can aim slightly higher, a $60 - $80 million dollar stadium. Now that Moncton has set a benchmark, Halifax should try to exceed it.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I know what you mean - I wish these statements were being made by Halifax area politicians. Moncton area leaders sought an achievable goal and obtained it (a $20 million dollar stadium). I hope that Halifax area leaders will learn from that. However, I think that Halifax can aim slightly higher, a $60 - $80 million dollar stadium. Now that Moncton has set a benchmark, Halifax should try to exceed it.

Well seeing as Calgary is in election mode - when is the next election in HRM? Make the issue political - frankly; that's the only way it's going to work. I mean that honestly - start the email and letter writing campaign and don't stop. First Sue Uteck (I'm sure she's royally po'ed); then start hitting other councillors. Move also on the mayor and heck, hit the premier's office too. Also the Minister of Economic Development/Tourism.

In the mean time; I'd say that there is work to do to in narrowing down sites and coming up with a plan.

I was thinking on the way home tonight that perhaps if the convention centre isn't a go; then maybe this could be?

[fenwick16]

I think that if the convention centre doesn't proceed then it will show a real lack of direction from the NDP. If the Halifax area can't build a new convention centre then there isn't much hope for progress in the Halifax area.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Well seeing as Calgary is in election mode - when is the next election in HRM? Make the issue political - frankly; that's the only way it's going to work. I mean that honestly - start the email and letter writing campaign and don't stop. First Sue Uteck (I'm sure she's royally po'ed); then start hitting other councillors. Move also on the mayor and heck, hit the premier's office too. Also the Minister of Economic Development/Tourism.

In the mean time; I'd say that there is work to do to in narrowing down sites and coming up with a plan.

I was thinking on the way home tonight that perhaps if the convention centre isn't a go; then maybe this could be?

There is no excuse for council not supporting a Stadium fund. Had they done that 26 years ago we could build a Halidome today!

[brettinhalifax]

account deleted

[fenwick16]

BrettinHalifax, it is interesting how you took my statement and twisted it around to support your viewpoint. No, I am not contradicting myself - I think that a $60 - $80 million dollar stadium is an attainable goal for Halifax, just as building a $20 million dollar stadium was an attainable goal for Moncton.

I initially thought in terms of a cheap stadium in a cheap location such as Dartmouth Crossings but that concept didn't seem to get much support on this forum (you can go back and see what I posted 1 year ago). It is not a contradiction for me to now state that I think that the Halifax Forum area is the best location because it is in a central location where it can utilize good transit connections, it can also utilize parking that is close by, it has good road access, and many people can just walk to that location. My current viewpoint came from reading what others have posted on this forum. If you go back and read this thread from the beginning, you will see that my viewpoint has been molded by others who have posted on this forum. I now strongly believe that a central location such as the Halifax Forum area is the best choice (it doesn't have to be the DND site).

The Halifax Forum location seems to get the most agreement from others on this forum, as does an economically priced $60 - $80 million dollar stadium. (A cheap stadium on the outskirts does not get much support and the goal is to get a stadium built). BrettinHalifax, I applaud your efforts for trying to get a stadium built in Halifax but if you can't convince enough people that a cheap stadium on the outskirts of the municipality is the best choice then you are fighting for a lost cause. The cause is to get a stadium built. Many people are going to have differing views, if you pick a location that a majority won't support then a stadium won't be built - unless you have $20 - $30 million dollars to spend.

As an example, Shannon Park is a site that has been mentioned for many years as a possible site for a stadium but it doesn't seem to get enough people backing it. I am old enough to remember the Shannon Park area when it was considered for a possible new Metro Centre back in the early 1970's. It was eventually decided to locate the Metro Centre in the downtown core. Can you say that Shannon Park would have been a better location for the Halifax Metro Centre? We need to learn from choices that Halifax has made that have worked (example the Metro Centre). We also need to learn from choices that other municipalities have made (some of these municipalities have had large stadiums for 100 years and continue to predominately select central locations). If Halifax is going to build a stadium then let's do it right the first time. Let's select a site and stadium concept that the majority will accept.

I have stated my viewpoint - that a stadium should be built in the best possible location in order to succeed. I don't see the contradiction.

[planarchy]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I think that if the convention centre doesn't proceed then it will show a real lack of direction from the NDP. If the Halifax area can't build a new convention centre then there isn't much hope for progress in the Halifax area.

Fenwick wins for most ridiculous statement ever posted.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

The school's still there and its still in use so it would be diffucult to put a stadium there. Thw schools been in use for about 50 years though so I don't know what the lifespan is.

Oh and just a heads up I'm neutral about the site but the hill and surrounding area is a sports facility which are hard to find on the Peninsula so be prepared to hit a massive wall of resistance.

I know that in the next 5 years there are a series of schools in the south end scheduled to close and others renovated/rebuilt as part of a consolidation plan. I am not 100% sure, but I "think" that both the elementary and junior high schools (Gorsebrook and Inglis) were on the chopping block, but I am not 100% sure of that.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I think that if the convention centre doesn't proceed then it will show a real lack of direction from the NDP. If the Halifax area can't build a new convention centre then there isn't much hope for progress in the Halifax area.

I am torn on that... because alternatively one could look at it that there is limited money around, and if the funds get spent on the convention centre there is less money available for a stadium. So if the convention centre goes tits-up then...?

That is probably dreaming, but it does remain true that with limited funds for capital projects, the convention centre does maybe in fact decrease the chances of a stadium with any public money?? Like I said, I am torn though, because maybe the public money put into developing the convention centre reignites things in Halifax and more private money comes forward for a stadium. Who knows, but it is not obvious to me which is the "good" scenario in this case.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by planarchy

Fenwick wins for most ridiculous statement ever posted.

I see you that are again trolling again planarchy. You stated before that you are not interested in the stadium issue. Why is it ridiculous to state that a government that can't support a venue that will create jobs (the convention centre) is not for progress. You like to present yourself as an intellect but you keep coming off as anything but.

But maybe I am stupid, so explain why is this a ridiculous statement? Am I ridiculous for feeling that a new convention centre shows progress. Please Planarchy, enlighten all of us with you extensive knowledge of useless facts.

I think that if the convention centre doesn't proceed then it will show a real lack of direction from the NDP. If the Halifax area can't build a new convention centre then there isn't much hope for progress in the Halifax area.

PS: My view is that Halifax will succeed with a new convention centre. Why must Halifax chose between a new convention centre and a stadium - it needs both.

[halifaxboyns]

Okay folks - lets stop the jabs and focus here. We're not here to poke fun and tease, let's focus on the goal here.

A few locations have been discussed, with mixed reviews on each. The list I have going so far (please add to if I've missed a site):
Shannon Park;
Forum/Windsor Park;
South End Halifax (near IWK);
Dartmouth Crossing/Burnside (I'm generallizing both areas into one for the sake of ease).

I also seem to recall someone mentioning ragged lake, or somewhere out that way?

Question for you fenwick> since we've talked about the cost of the project, did your cost projection for the forum site factor in site aquisition costs? Demolition and potential environmental clean up? I think we need to see where that would be because cost will be a big factor.

Shannon Park you can easily tack on probably at least $20 million for new roads and infrastructure - but that can be recouped through local levies on new development (assuming private developers do most of the work).

Btw, I wasn't trying to pit the convention centre against the stadium. I was merely pointing out that if the one project did not proceed (for whatever reason); there may be a means to get funds to allow this project to proceed. If the convention centre does go ahead; Provincial monies should still be made available for this project too. IMO, if both went ahead, I think you would seem the market forces improve for hotels dramatically (once both were in operation).

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

PS: My view is that Halifax will succeed with a new convention centre. Why must Halifax chose between a new convention centre and a stadium - it needs both.

Because of costs and limited financial resources... that is why Halifax potentially (and I say potentially because I am not a financial expert) must choose between major projects.

Like you said in the airport thread, costs must be a consideration. You don't want us to use bankrupt Iceland as a model... and so this is why we have to at least think about only funding limited capital projects at any given time or the province/city could go bankrupt. No?

There is no question Halifax "needs" both... it is a fair question to ask whether we can afford funding construction of both at the same time.

[DigitalNinja]

IMO I agree with Fenwick, that if the convention center doesn't get through it will be a sad day for Halifax. The economic impact of one would significantly spur growth in Halifax and bring some major events here, and be an excellent space for many groups to meet. This will bring many dollars to downtown and could revive barrington st as well.
My posts are normally random incoherent points but I really advocate have a new modern convention center downtown.

That said, we also need a new modern stadium, it doesn't need to be anything special, a 20-30million dollar building cost would do. This would be enough for Halifax to host major events here and draw more attractions to the city.

IMO I'm getting bored of Halifax, nothing changes here and there doesn't seem like there is much to do anymore. We need to have festivals every season of the year. We don't have enough stuff...

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

IMO I agree with Fenwick, that if the convention center doesn't get through it will be a sad day for Halifax. The economic impact of one would significantly spur growth in Halifax and bring some major events here, and be an excellent space for many groups to meet. This will bring many dollars to downtown and could revive barrington st as well.
My posts are normally random incoherent points but I really advocate have a new modern convention center downtown.

I don't disagree that it will be a sad day if the convention centre does not go ahead.

As I said above, I agree that we "need" both projects in Halifax. It is just not obvious to me that there are the public dollars available for this without raising taxes! That seems to me to be especially true with a stadium since there has not, to date, been a single private entity come forward with a funding plan. It would be different if they were simply looking for public funds to help out, but why should a stadium be built 100% with tax dollars?? Why is there no private group stepping forward with a plan here?

I do also find it odd that some of the most vocal people calling for public funds for a stadium seem to be conservatives... whereas my understanding of conservative dogma is that public funds should never be used for projects like this, and certainly not at the expense of lowering taxes. Why then the huge support for this to be built with public funds? What we REALLY need is a private group to step forward and take the lead, and once they have a true plan then one could broach the topic of having some public funds included.

[ATL Stadium]

Uteck Bowl loss to Moncton MAJOR BLOW!


In my humble opinion .......now is the time!!!! and possibly the one and only chance to grab the opportunity.....to even compete....in the immediate future!

CFL Commish offers a glimmer of hope, basically stating the fact that the new Moncton facility is too small (even expanded to 20,000) for any look at as permanent CFL franchise location.

So Halifax simply has to step up and build a 25/30,000 seat facility.....or we all go away with our tails between our legs.....and live with the likely hood of every concert, every outdoor sporting event, equipment show, etc etc heading to Moncton.

CALL your MP, call your MLA, call your HRM council member, write a letter to any paper that will print it.....do it now! I mean today!