Halifax Stadium Discussion

[wespidel]

Fenwick apparently this is a modular concrete permanent bowl stadium and also I forgot in your model Fenwick have the two double deckers with a partial see through roof liked show on the Events NS Dec. 24th bid in the coloured photo of people in the stands with the roof shown.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

If it was a temporary stadium than it would not be build in a bowl permanent seat structure, this is a permanent bowl 25 thousand seat stadium not temporary, the same stadium has been built and I wished I could remember the country and city. It can be expanded to 35 thousand plus. I would prefer like you Fenwick a similar style stadium to Ottawa first design which I`m going to try to find with two idential sides with 30 skyboxes and 25 thousand seats with open endzones for expansion. I apparently this stadium can be seen on line if I could remember the country. It sounded like a foreign country. I will try to find out, meanwhile can you Fenwick put together a 25 thousand permanent seat model both idential double decked sides 12,500 permanent seats on each side with concourses, washrooms and concession stands with 10 to 12 skyboxes on each side of stadium and maybe more depending where you put the press boxes and club seats.

Fenwick please email to me at... wespidel@hfx.eastlink.ca.... and I will forward it the source who his presenting the designs.

By the Fenwick just to reassure you this is a 60 to 70 million dollar stadium not a 30 million. I don`t want to reveil the source of information I`m giving because it`s private information but it will be public very soon and this is the design that the city Halifax are keen on, cost wise and size for the money and I believe the best deal presented to them at this point.

I read quite a bit about the Ottawa renovations but it is a more complex model than my simple concept (I was more interested in all the information that was given on building safety code requirements). I based my concepts more on the InfoCision Stadium in Akron and the Plaster Sports Complex in Springfield, Missouri which are simpler than the Ottawa Stadium. Although I looked at the Ottawa roof design, I spent much more time looking at European stadium roof designs since most of the European Stadiums have partial roofs. I spent quite a bit of time looking at the Cardiff City Stadium design and Swansea Liberty Stadium. I think because the UK gets so much rain similar to the Maritimes, they have seen the benefits of having a partial (or complete) roof on their stadiums.

Here is a list of European Stadiums - http://www.worldstadiums.com/europe/maps/europe.shtml . Maybe you will recognize the one that you heard about.

PS: I don't know anything about what stadium they are thinking of but this is one that has been mentioned on this forum quite a bit - The Cardiff City Stadium in Cardiff, Wales - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_City_Stadium . I would certainly be happy with this type of design.

[fenwick16]

deleted - double post

[Empire]

Maybe when the stadium is built we can land the Winter Classic. Pittsburg vs the Leafs. Sidney can showcase his hometown and all the naysayers will have to retreat forever.

[wespidel]

Fenwick you didn`t email the city any bowl modular 25,000 permanent seat stadium structures because APPARENTLY this is now what the city of Halifax is looking to build, the downside is that it`s only excpandable to 35,ooo and you need 45 to 50 for a Grey Cup, so please if you send me a model I can channel for you properly so it gets to the right source, please do similar to what I suggested like you said you would so we can encourage the city to stay away from a bowl modular structure stress the advantages of having a double deck two sided stadium with all the features and amenities needed for CFL model stadium with open endzones.

SPYDER*

[wespidel]

Fenwick, just was looking at the Cardiff stadium in Wales, it looks similar to what I was describing that Halifax is now talking about building in a modular 25,000 permanent bowl type structure. I noticed that this Cardiff bowl structure costed 48,000 in 2007 and has backed seats and looks like it might have some skyboxes or are they all press boxes on the only double deck side of the stadium. I personally don`t like this design because you can`t not expand in the endzones and only one side of the stadium is double decked.

If this bowl structure design you cannot put many skyboxes in because of the other side of the stadium is not double decked.

Fenwick is this stadium in Cardiff Wales a modular bowl structure?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Fenwick you didn`t email the city any bowl modular 25,000 permanent seat stadium structures because APPARENTLY this is now what the city of Halifax is looking to build, the downside is that it`s only excpandable to 35,ooo and you need 45 to 50 for a Grey Cup, so please if you send me a model I can channel for you properly so it gets to the right source, please do similar to what I suggested like you said you would so we can encourage the city to stay away from a bowl modular structure stress the advantages of having a double deck two sided stadium with all the features and amenities needed for CFL model stadium with open endzones.

SPYDER*

Relax Spyder. I never sent any emails suggesting the Cardiff City Stadium design. I was just trying to get some information from you (I was guessing based on what you posted). Several Councillors read this forum and I am sure they have read your suggestions. I doubt that they will be basing anything on my suggestions (however if anyone comes up with good suggestions then they might want to hear them). There are engineers, planners and at least one architect (maybe more) who are employed by the city so they have the human resources to develop a good design. Also the Hardman Group that was the project manager for the Metro Centre and Metro Park could put together a team to build a new stadium. So there is no shortage of talent in the Maritimes.

I tend to agree with you about an expandable stadium and this is the type that seems to be popular in the CFL.

PS: I hope that I didn't give you the impression that I have an inside track on what is happening regarding a stadium in the HRM. I am just a sports nut who likes to dig up information regarding stadiums. The only information that I have is what I read (including your posts).

[MaritimeCFLFan]

I look forward to seeing what the new drawings will look like. I'd suggest even these drawings may not be what the final stadium design will be depending on feedback from the public. I'll still be hoping for a 25,000 to 30,000 permanent seat stadium with room to expand large enough to host major events (Grey Cup ideally). I doubt 35,000 seats would be large enough for a Grey Cup but if the the CFL ever did let this go ahead I'm pretty sure with the limited seating the price of tickets would be very expensive and the CFL likes to market itself as the affordable league. I think the smallest current CFL configuration for a Grey Cup game is in the 45,000 seat range (Winnipeg).

[wespidel]

Thanks Fenwick for your reply and good point Maritime Fan. I believe we are all on the same page and Fenwick the 25,000 permanent seat modular type bowl stadium Halifax are seriously looking at is not a temporary stadium, it`s a permanent seat constructed stadium, expandable to 35,000 thousand which I agree is not the way to go. Two Double decked stands with concourses and skyboxes on oppositie sides of the stadium with open endzones allows for expansion to a minium Grey cup qualified make shift stadium of 45 and possiblely 50 thousand people, which I believe for the largest city in the Atlantic provinces you have to shoot for specially for the city of Halifax and the owner of the CFL franchise and definitely for major concerts.

[Ecreip]

I have been watching the discussion for quite some time and now have a few comments.
The Wanderers grounds was considered as a possible site way back but was thought too small because of one corner that would be over Bell Road. Is it not possible to re-allign Bell Rd to accommodate a stadium?
The Cogswell St interchange has also been mentioned but dismissed as too small. Is it necessary to replace all the former streets? How about one, one way street that runs the perimeter of the whole area?

[wespidel]

Across from Saint Mary`S, THERE IS A TENNIS COURT THERE AND A OLD OUTDOOR RINK USED FOR GROUND HOCKEY AND A LOT OF OPEN SPACE SURROUNDING THAT LOCATION NEAR GORSEBROOK GRAMMAR SCHOOL, HALIFAX ARE LOOKING AT THIS SITE AS ONE OF THE SITES TO BUILD THE STADIUM, AS WELL AS DART. CROSSING AND A PROSPECT RD. SITE AND A SITE OUT BY THE AIRPORT.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Across from Saint Mary`S, THERE IS A TENNIS COURT THERE AND A OLD OUTDOOR RINK USED FOR GROUND HOCKEY AND A LOT OF OPEN SPACE SURROUNDING THAT LOCATION NEAR GORSEBROOK GRAMMAR SCHOOL, HALIFAX ARE LOOKING AT THIS SITE AS ONE OF THE SITES TO BUILD THE STADIUM, AS WELL AS DART. CROSSING AND A PROSPECT RD. SITE AND A SITE OUT BY THE AIRPORT.

Thanks for the information. A site by the airport would be a terrible location for a stadium (for readers not familiar with the Halifax area, it is 30 minutes by highway outside of the city which is good for an airport but not a stadium). Probably the thought is that it would be a central location for Nova Scotia and all of the Maritime Provinces but most fans will come from the Halifax Urban area and many casual fans just won't want to travel that far. Also, visitors will fly into the Halifax Airport and possibly not even travel into the city. The other problem is shuttling fans without cars that far.

The Gorsebrook location would be great and would likely be supported by SMU. They might even want to close their field and use it for academic buildings. The Dartmouth Crossings area might refer to the Commodore Drive and John Savage Avenue area where there is already a football field - http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=C...33023&t=h&z=16 . As far as Dartmouth locations go, I think it would be about the best (just my opinion) - it is close to restaurants and shopping areas and is a nice scenic area.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Ecreip

I have been watching the discussion for quite some time and now have a few comments.
The Wanderers grounds was considered as a possible site way back but was thought too small because of one corner that would be over Bell Road. Is it not possible to re-allign Bell Rd to accommodate a stadium?
The Cogswell St interchange has also been mentioned but dismissed as too small. Is it necessary to replace all the former streets? How about one, one way street that runs the perimeter of the whole area?

The Wanderers Ground would be large enough and I really like that location. The stadium could be made to look small from street level by having it partially sunken and surrounded by ground berms like the Yale Bowl. But I wonder if there would be a lot of opposition?

PS: People could park downtown and there could be a quick shuttle loop (sports events usually don't occur during business hours when car lots would be filled). After the game, many people would just walk back to their cars since it is much easier walking down the hills than up.

[thurmas]

I am not sure if Fenwick posted this already but here is a perfect example of what mayor Kelly should propose as a stadium. It is in Akron Ohio it seats 27,000 open ended endzones and it cost $61 million the same price range the mayor is proposing.
Here is a link :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfoCis...93_Summa_Field

[halifaxboyns]

I just wanted to chime in before I rush off to get my morning coffee.

I have a growing concern about how much people seem to be banking on the Cogswell Interchange site for everything. This was the site that the HT compromised on (shocking) to allow tall buildings in HbD, the metro centre 2 could go there, we've talked about a stadium, I've heard rumors about greenspace for the downtown...that's the only 4 I could think of right now, but I'm sure there is more. I know this was talked about in another thread and Jono pointed out that there should be enough for at least 4 tall buildings - but until I see a plan, I'm skeptical. The fact is; the roads are the priority there (getting them re-aligned to function) and this spot can be the 'be all and end all' site for everything.

That being said; i'm not opposed to a stadium close to downtown and I'm sure that if it was built the route 8 or some other type shuttle service could be altered to act as a shuttle.

Another concern I have is about the wanderers ground site. In theory I don't have an issue, but this is part of the commons and a discussion I had with an uncle keeps going around in my head. The commons is about a public use, yet one of the main reasons we'd be building a stadium is for a CFL football team and to hold concerts. So can one truly say that these are public uses, when the team is privately owned? That would probably be the point of debate for those who would oppose it. Personally - I wouldn't oppose it because the selling feature I'd say would be that you could take the concerts off the commons and in a space that would be more appropriate.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by thurmas

I am not sure if Fenwick posted this already but here is a perfect example of what mayor Kelly should propose as a stadium. It is in Akron Ohio it seats 27,000 open ended endzones and it cost $61 million the same price range the mayor is proposing.
Here is a link :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfoCis...93_Summa_Field

Thanks for posting it thurmas. Several of us have mentioned this one since the price is right and it looks quite good. If only it also had a partial roof then it would be perfect. I have a business acquaintance in the city of Akron and I am hoping to tour this stadium sometime if I am in that area again (Akron in just 30-40 minutes south of Cleveland).

[FuzzyWuz]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

The Wanderers Ground would be large enough and I really like that location.

Forget it. There's a pile of rotten lumber there that was once crapped on by Rudyard Kipling's dog.

How thoughtless can you get?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuz

Forget it. There's a pile of rotten lumber there that was once crapped on by Rudyard Kipling's dog.

How thoughtless can you get?

I agree, I can't see it happening.

[wespidel]

Fenwick, you said you been studying the Cardiff stadium in Wales. Is this a modular type permanent stadium structure versus a concrete or both.

Could this type structure work for Halifax cost wise better and if they were to build it without the bowl effect and have two double decked sides with 25 thousand plus permanent seats and the endzones open to expand to 45 or 50 thousand with all the amenities, concourses with concession and washrooms and 20 plus skyboxes, maybe some club houses and large enough press boxes, would it be possible to built it with the same type seats with a see through roof which is less expensive and looks better, like in the Events NS photo, for 60 to 70 million not counting the land which Mayor Kelly said would be over and above the 60 million dollar price.

Also how do you feel about the overall structure of Cardiff`s stadium and is it built more economically in price and would it be a good solid structure.

SPYDER*

[wespidel]

Fenwick the above stadium profile you created is totally built out of concrete precast risers, etc. the whole stadium which is unlike the Cardiff, correct or not. The Cardiff structure looks like it`s built out all metal or steel frame modulars. Please give me your opinion.

PS. Fenwick what you have above, before my previous post I missed seeing, but I`m impressed with what you have done and with the see through roof style, looks like here is of room plenty too for all the amenities, skyboxes, club houses, press boxes, concourses, etc.

SPYDER* We need to come up with a better proposal than the 25 permanent seat bowl modular structure, expandable to only 35 thousand that will be proposed.