PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Lagos?

It really is shameful and I'm honestly tired of hearing all the excuses for it.

Mogadishu.

Anyways, on Condos.

I was Phase I of Northbank. I know it's not really a condo in the typical sense, but in Phase I starting price was 464,900 (for the smallest 1,900SF model). Let's call it 18 months later, and the starting price for the same model is 614,900. That's a 33% increase (150K).

Also, of the 390 units for sale on the site, nearly all are under contract. 94 of those are the entry level model mentioned above and all of those are under contract. The only units that remain for the most part are $1MM plus.

On this site plan, everything essentially south of "Northbank Place" and west of the "green" is sold and settled. Virtually everything east of the green is under contract.

Construction on this portion of the development will be finished (including settlements) by the end of 2023, which if you ask me, is very fast considering how many units we're talking about.

https://www.liveatnorthbank.com/community/site-plan/

After that, the developer will move onto the plot of land south, which is in the CDR packet here. It remains to be seen what will happen with those give the interest rate situation.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by El Duderino

I think they should call the area between Penn Treaty Park and Graffiti Pier, east of 95, just "Penn Treaty", though I'm sure the developers will angle to call it Northbank.

I'm hoping for The Battery.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by allovertown

So people are worried about being in close quarters and being in shared spaces that naturally occur in condos because they're worried about catching Covid. But they're also against the mask mandate, which would make such places safer.

I'm just reporting what I'm seeing and hearing from people every single day dude. If you don't like that I'm speaking the truth, IDK what to tell you. The fact is we live in the United States of America where everyone bitches left and right about their "freedoms" and their "rights." So yes, the constantly changing COVID restrictions and mask mandates in the city is enough to piss off quite a lot of people - hence the recent lawsuit against the city.

Look at recent polls - most polls have over 80% of respondents disagreeing with the city's mask mandate:

In the wake of the announcement, we polled Business Journal readers about their thoughts on the mandate's return. Almost 300 readers responded, with 81% saying the city's decision to bring back the mask mandate is overly cautious and could harm the local economy. While the overwhelming majority of respondents aren't in favor of the mandate, 11% indicated they think the move is appropriate, and an additional 8% said they have mixed feelings about the policy.

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...einstated.html

Furthermore.... I don't think you know me at all. Again, I'm vaccinated and boosted, have worn my mask whenever mandated for two years, and still wear my mask whenever I go inside somewhere now that mandates are back in place... even if I don't agree with it.

I however, unlike you, realize that a city is made up of a wide range of people, and a wide range of beliefs and thoughts... however unreasonable.... furthermore, it's not just made up of a wide range of people with a wide range of beliefs and thoughts but a wide range of business owners and commuters from outside the city with a wide range of beliefs and thoughts... and at this point, greater than 50% of the country believes mask mandates and COVID restrictions to be unnecessary and do not support them:

The number of Americans who support their state or local government requiring masks in all public places has also dipped below 50% for the first time – now, 44% support such a requirement, down from 50% last month and 67% at the beginning of the year (during the height of the Omicron variant).

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-pol...onavirus-index

Sooo.... why you may think you're in the majority in your beliefs, and everyone should just shut up and follow suit, you're actually in the minority at this point, and people are getting fed up to the point where they are actually moving, not buying homes or condos, not opening businesses, etc. in places that they deem to be more restrictive than others... and that's a problem for a city like Philly that's already viewed as unfriendly to businesses, etc....

[skyhigh07]

^^^ Even though the Biden administration just announced they’ll appeal the travel mask mandate, nothing will happen for a long time. It will take at least 6 months in the 11th Circuit COA from Notice of Appeal to a decision. Even at that point, we may have a new Congress by then and who knows what will happen. In others words, it’s done.

Sorry to get way off topic. Just adding a bit more context here.

[Frontst17]

I like the majority of people would be one of those to answer “I don’t want to wear a mask anymore” but I, like the majority of people will still put on a mask and go about my life. I think some of these polls are being misinterpreted. I would like to see a poll of people who say masks will prevent them from going about enjoying life. I think 80% is probably spot on for not wanting it but I’d say 80-90% of those people won’t let it stop them. Also I STRONGLY believe that people are being misled on how much this would affect the local economy… but that’s another rabbit hole. I really think the citizens of the City are gonna plow right through this current mandate as if it never happened.

[cardeza]

pew survey results show majority feel violence/crime is #1 issue of concern in the city.

https://www.inquirer.com/business/ph...-20220420.html

[El Duderino]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I'm hoping for The Battery.

Now that is way more marketable and has those vaguely NYC vibes.

Also: how often do you travel by foot to places close by? This spot is definitely starting to feel more connected to the rest of the city with 95 construction getting closer to completion, but I haven't tried to cross under 95 by foot. Is a trip to the IGA a nightmare or tolerable? And do you have any faith that the pedestrian paths under 95 are going to be valuable once they're wrapped?

Lastly: good views from your roofdeck, i hope?

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I'm hoping for The Battery.

It's not in any of the renderings and is very unlikely, but damn do I wish they would restore the sign on 'The Battery' apartments. It would be iconic imo.

[El Duderino]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

It's not in any of the renderings and is very unlikely, but damn do I wish they would restore the sign on 'The Battery' apartments. It would be iconic imo.

i'd compromise and say this should face the audience over the floating stage once it makes its way up here

[chimpskibot]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Mogadishu.

Anyways, on Condos.

I was Phase I of Northbank. I know it's not really a condo in the typical sense, but in Phase I starting price was 464,900 (for the smallest 1,900SF model). Let's call it 18 months later, and the starting price for the same model is 614,900. That's a 33% increase (150K).

Also, of the 390 units for sale on the site, nearly all are under contract. 94 of those are the entry level model mentioned above and all of those are under contract. The only units that remain for the most part are $1MM plus.

On this site plan, everything essentially south of "Northbank Place" and west of the "green" is sold and settled. Virtually everything east of the green is under contract.

Construction on this portion of the development will be finished (including settlements) by the end of 2023, which if you ask me, is very fast considering how many units we're talking about.

https://www.liveatnorthbank.com/community/site-plan/

After that, the developer will move onto the plot of land south, which is in the CDR packet here. It remains to be seen what will happen with those give the interest rate situation.

This may be OT, but are you worried about climate change and potential flooding on the Northbank Development? What about amenities and connectivity to the city as a whole? Very interested in your perspective, decision process?

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I'm just reporting what I'm seeing and hearing from people every single day dude. If you don't like that I'm speaking the truth, IDK what to tell you. The fact is we live in the United States of America where everyone bitches left and right about their "freedoms" and their "rights." So yes, the constantly changing COVID restrictions and mask mandates in the city is enough to piss off quite a lot of people - hence the recent lawsuit against the city.

Look at recent polls - most polls have over 80% of respondents disagreeing with the city's mask mandate:


https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...einstated.html

Furthermore.... I don't think you know me at all. Again, I'm vaccinated and boosted, have worn my mask whenever mandated for two years, and still wear my mask whenever I go inside somewhere now that mandates are back in place... even if I don't agree with it.

I however, unlike you, realize that a city is made up of a wide range of people, and a wide range of beliefs and thoughts... however unreasonable.... furthermore, it's not just made up of a wide range of people with a wide range of beliefs and thoughts but a wide range of business owners and commuters from outside the city with a wide range of beliefs and thoughts... and at this point, greater than 50% of the country believes mask mandates and COVID restrictions to be unnecessary and do not support them:


https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-pol...onavirus-index

Sooo.... why you may think you're in the majority in your beliefs, and everyone should just shut up and follow suit, you're actually in the minority at this point, and people are getting fed up to the point where they are actually moving, not buying homes or condos, not opening businesses, etc. in places that they deem to be more restrictive than others... and that's a problem for a city like Philly that's already viewed as unfriendly to businesses, etc....

Speaking the truth? Lol I'm making fun of you for not making any goddamn sense. How are people afraid to buy condos because they're afraid of Covid AND also against mask mandates? If people are afraid of covid wouldn't they want mandates in place? If they don't want mandates wouldn't that imply they're not afraid of covid?

Do you not see the logical fallacy here? At the very least, maybe you have to admit there are two sides to this and no matter what philly does people will be unhappy? Maybe the problem is less Philadelphia's response to a global pandemic and more about the existence of a global pandemic. Maybe?

Also buddy, quoting a poll of Philadelphia Business Journal readers and acting like you've done something. 😂😂😂 I mean do you think there might be a sampling issue with your poll there? You think maybe readers of the Philadelphia Business Journal might skew a bit in one direction on this? Maybe?

Plenty of people are still in favor of common sense mask mandates if you go to a poll that's a little more representative of the population that has a bit of a higher reputation: https://today.yougov.com/topics/heal.../04/18/85dc0/1
63% support a mask mandate reinstated on transit! Only 29% opposed.

But regardless, I never claimed to be in the majority on this. That truly means nothing to me. Lol I'm certainly not in the majority here on practically anything.

I also never said I wanted Philly to ennact this mask mandate. I mean I mentioned some reasons why it might be a good idea, like the fact that tens of thousands of Philadelphians still can't get vaccinated. And the fact that covid shrinks your fucking brain and the long term impact of even mild cases could be devastating. But read back at my posts. All I'm saying is I'm sick of hearing grown men bitch and moan and cry about it. Haven't you all cried enough? If you truly care about this, do you think posting about it here will change anything? Do you need to have a new cry session every day? Does it have to be here? On this message board about skyscrapers? Food for thought.

[summersm343]

Now we’ve stooped to openly “making fun of” a moderator. Your attitude is very interesting sometimes. I think you’re CLEARLY misunderstanding what I’m saying. I’m not making these things up. These are legitimate conversations I’ve had with homebuyers. No joke.

Read this article from the Inky. Scroll down to the “what you’re saying” section and read the comments:
https://www.inquirer.com/health/coro...-20220420.html

I work in real estate. New construction. I interact with people inside and outside of the city almost daily. I’ve spoken with well over a thousand people since COVID started in 2020 with many, many different views. I think you’re confusing my comments on how the general public is acting VS my own feelings on the matter.

I’m not sure what other proof I need to show you that this mask mandate is not a good look for the city because of the already tainted view of the city the past couple of years.

I am first and foremost a firm supporter of Philadelphia, and it’s continued success. I’m going to support things that help Philadelphia succeed, and call things out that will or may have a negative impact on the city. This new mask mandate may have a negative impact on the city whether you want to believe it or not and whether it’s rational or not.

Now, I guess we’ll agree to disagree and move on from this conversation. It’s clear you have very strong opinions about certain things, and there’s no use in continuing to post and comment on it.

[skyhigh07]

Deleted

[Justin7]

Quoting an online poll at bizjournals as supporting evidence is... wow.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by El Duderino

Now that is way more marketable and has those vaguely NYC vibes.

Also: how often do you travel by foot to places close by? This spot is definitely starting to feel more connected to the rest of the city with 95 construction getting closer to completion, but I haven't tried to cross under 95 by foot. Is a trip to the IGA a nightmare or tolerable? And do you have any faith that the pedestrian paths under 95 are going to be valuable once they're wrapped?

Lastly: good views from your roofdeck, i hope?

The Battery is the name of the Power Plant Development being done by Lubert Adler. It will have residential, commercial, and office (the renderings are sick) and they will build on the lots north of the power plant all the way up to Northbank...so it will become a continuous strip.

I do feel disconnected by I walk all the time anyway. I tend to walk out to Delaware and then cross under 95 at Berks. My best friend is at Berks & Gaul and it's only a 12 minute walk to her house (and she's quite a ways from Girard Avenue). It's probably 7 minutes to Berks and Girard.

The developer is working with PennDot to add cross walks at 3 intersections. That should help a lot.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Quoting an online poll at bizjournals as supporting evidence is... wow.

The YouGov poll is also an online poll. If it were one of their in-depth polls it would have included a PDF file containing their methodology and sampling.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

This may be OT, but are you worried about climate change and potential flooding on the Northbank Development? What about amenities and connectivity to the city as a whole? Very interested in your perspective, decision process?

I mean yes? The site is surprisingly elevated though. I'm not sure if it's something of a natural bluff or if the site has been built up over the years, or both. The developer definitely did a lot of remediation and site work.

I'm one block off the water and I'm at 22 feet elevation. The houses closer to the water are actually a bit higher, about 30 feet above sea level. Surprisingly, I wasn't required to buy flood insurance, which is CRAZY. I'm going to get it anyway, but it's been a bit of a process because the city hasn't subdivided the lots yet, so there's no unique parcel number for FEMA to reference. Hopefully its done by hurricane season.

My decision process wasn't much of one. Literally spur of the moment. I walked into the sales center the opening weekend and they said the first ten buyers get $25,000 toward closing costs and $15,000 in upgrades. I asked how many houses were under contract at that point. They said nine. So I picked a lot and signed immediately. I knew the houses were super under priced just based on square footage, views, etc. In Fishtown proper, my unit would be close to 800k. It'll get there. Prices have gone up at least 150k at every level. They've raised prices on the biggest model by almost 300k and are still selling.

I basically had to come up with my down payment and that's it.

In terms of location, it works super well for me because I work in the World Trade Center in Manhattan and commute on Amtrak from Cornwells Heights. So I literally go to the end of my street, hop on 95, and am at Cornwells Heights in 15 minutes. My train leaves at 7:22 AM and I'm at my desk in World Trade at 8:35.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

In terms of location, it works super well for me because I work in the World Trade Center in Manhattan and commute on Amtrak from Cornwells Heights. So I literally go to the end of my street, hop on 95, and am at Cornwells Heights in 15 minutes. My train leaves at 7:22 AM and I'm at my desk in World Trade at 8:35.

Wow! Someone who actually uses Cornwells Heights as intended!

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

The YouGov poll is also an online poll. If it were one of their in-depth polls it would have included a PDF file containing their methodology and sampling.

The difference of course is that YouGov is one of the most accurate pollsters operating today and has all kinds of advanced strategies to reach people and get accurate samples: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/

Meanwhile Philly Business Journal... took a poll of their own readers.

Perhaps YouGov will do more advanced polling on this topic in the future and you can get in the lab and pour into their methodology and sampling information. In the meantime, literally anything produced by YouGov should be taken far more seriously than an internal poll of Philadelphia Business Journal subscribers.

Again though, and I can't stress this strongly enough, I do not give a shit if you think more people support mask mandates than not. Believe the poll. Don't believe the poll. Who cares. I have absolutely zero desire to discuss mask mandates with you. I would just love it if you could go a day with out whining about mask mandates here on this forum about skyscrapers.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by allovertown

The difference of course is that YouGov is one of the most accurate pollsters operating today and has all kinds of advanced strategies to reach people and get accurate samples: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/

Meanwhile Philly Business Journal... took a poll of their own readers.

Perhaps YouGov will do more advanced polling on this topic in the future and you can get in the lab and pour into their methodology and sampling information. In the meantime, literally anything produced by YouGov should be taken far more seriously than an internal poll of Philadelphia Business Journal subscribers.

Again though, and I can't stress this strongly enough, I do not give a shit if you think more people support mask mandates than not. Believe the poll. Don't believe the poll. Who cares. I have absolutely zero desire to discuss mask mandates with you. I would just love it if you could go a day with out whining about mask mandates here on this forum about skyscrapers.

Good morning to you too. I didn’t even reply to you and I haven’t for a long while…