CHICAGO | General Developments

[intrepidDesign]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

... Even Oprahs old studio is struggling to fill space. ....

With direct insider knowledge, I can tell you that 'struggling' isn't 100% accurate. Both studio 1 and 2 at Harpo are utilized on a regular basis. One thing to consider about a studio is that it isn't just the actors and the camera guys, we have roughly 20 edit suites here and they are always going, not to mention a robust design department, audio dept, as well as an abundance of producers. About 50% of what we work on is taped here, the remaining 50% is from LA or 'other'. I think a lot of this has to do with Oprah's loyalty to Chicago.

I don't know if Cinespace is structured the same with designers/fx and editors, I also think that shows produced here don't necessarily have to be about Chicago, especially when you have huge sets like Cinespace. As much as you don't like it, incentives do go a long way to bring productions to cities, and they pay dividends beyond just having a show about Chicago, like Boss. Jobs, jobs, jobs.

Personally, I think it's a losing game going after LA's scraps. Instead, I think Rahm and Co should be thinking globally, and go after international productions that need an 'American style' city as a backdrop, or less (relatively) expensive access to high quality vfx/editing/sound professionals. Sorry to go OT, just my two cents.

[Beta_Magellan]

Building on LouisVanDerWright, Via Chicago and intrepidDesign’s points, it’s worth noting that pursuing cinespace as a matter of public policy would be repeating the mistakes of PMD zoning—trying to foster a specific economic activity at sites where land development markets can find a more productive use of them. If they happen to turn into cinespace that’s great, but the city shouldn’t make a big push for it.

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis

I always thought it would be a good idea to complete the plan of the midway plasance and turn it into a canal. It would be awesome to take gondala or kayak rides from Jackson park, Museum of Science and Industry to the University of Chicago.

Michael Sorkin proposed this in his plan for the U. of C.. He was hired by the University in the late nineties but quickly released—Sorkin decided to continue with it as a piece of paper architecture and made a the linked Pamphlet Architecture entry out of it. I don’t know of any serious recent proposal to turn it into a canal, though.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by intrepidDesign

...
Personally, I think it's a losing game going after LA's scraps. Instead, I think Rahm and Co should be thinking globally, and go after international productions that need an 'American style' city as a backdrop, or less (relatively) expensive access to high quality vfx/editing/sound professionals. Sorry to go OT, just my two cents.

Side benefit: more international exposure could mean more international tourism.

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by ehilton44

I Most economic and urban planning research shows that, in fact, casinos are more of a drain on an advanced urban economy than a gain.

Philly and Detroit have downtown casinos and they are no architectural gems... even if we could guarantee good design, why bother? A downtown casino would devalue downtown, push people inward as opposed to outside, and create a blank walled monstrosity. Leave them in Hammond.

I'm sympathetic to this point of view. It's expressed frequently, and endlessly by the likes of Richard Florida.

However, There are two casinos right on the edge of the city, in Indiana. Most of the gamblers are Illinois residents, but Indiana gets all the tax revenue. So the situation we are in is that we get most of the downside, but none of the positives. Indiana has collected nearly $11 Billion in casino taxes!

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by ehilton44

I'm a long time lurker first time poster. I have a question about a general theme around the general developments thread that is in favor of a downtown casino (even going so far as to reference Marina Bay Sands). Most economic and urban planning research shows that, in fact, casinos are more of a drain on an advanced urban economy than a gain. In fact, Baylor Economist Earl Grinols wrote that "casino gambling generates roughly $166 in social costs for every $54 of economic benefit." (source).

Philly and Detroit have downtown casinos and they are no architectural gems... even if we could guarantee good design, why bother? A downtown casino would devalue downtown, push people inward as opposed to outside, and create a blank walled monstrosity. Leave them in Hammond.

I realize you just joined, but I pointed this out on several occasions when this discussion has been brought up. Morality aside...the social costs are already there. gambling is everywhere outside of the Chicago. That's direct access to casinos from Amtrak and the blue line. Free shuttles. Just pay the couple of bucks to get you there on rail.

Detroit is a bit different. The direct social costs of Detroit's pre-casino days were nearly non-existent within the city limits. Wealthier metro residents had the ability to drive up to Soaring Eagle or other reservation casinos or cross the border to Windsor. But once Detroit had them downtown, Anyone over 18 had much easier access. Completely different situation in Chicago where from a geographical standpoint, we practically already have them.

Can't be sure I agree with your speculation on the second point. I think most folks here imagine the casino going in the Post Office. It's pretty dead over there, coarse grain, and already harsh and unfriendly. Your win is a renovated building. Can't say for sure if a fenced off abandoned building or at the very least a vacant lot has some effect on devaluing a downtown, but I'm certain an income producing property could certainly enhance its surroundings. Like Detroit, the casinos would make use of fringe properties. All border less than desirable areas. Freeways, freeways and more freeways. Or ironically...the jail. Similarly, the casino would turn around what I'd consider...a liability...with the Old Main post office. That is, assuming it goes there.

[wierdaaron]

I hadn't thought about it, but having a casino around would possibly drive a resurgence of Chicago's once-vibrant downtown nightlife scene. If people are at a casino into the late hours of the night, they'll probably create a demand for local restaurants to stay open later. That could ripple a few economic directions.

[ardecila]

^^ They said it. I think a lot of the optimism around a casino centers around the idea that a downtown Chicago casino would "be different", with ambitious architecture (Arquitectonica-esque), a high-end feel, and patronized by mainly high rollers and upper-middle-class folks looking for a glamorous escape, instead of the working-class and ethnic groups of compulsive gamblers.

I don't know if this is realistic. Certainly we could aim high in the planning stages, but what happens if the high rollers don't materialize and the management decides to swap out the Daniel Boulud restaurant for an all-you-can-eat buffet? Vegas has such a high volume of gamblers who travel to the city that an individual casino can afford to target a particular market segment. In Chicago, the casino will have to live with the existing population of gamblers, regardless of what class they belong to.

I don't know much about Potawatomi up in Milwaukee... their advertising projects a certain level of subdued glamour, but I don't know if that's real or not. The last time I was in Milwaukee, I was serenaded by a bunch of Elvis impersonators in the Amtrak station who were shilling for Potawatomi.

There might be promise in a scheme that sees the casino as a "home base" to explore Chicago; tourists would use the hotel and have access to world-class dining, and the gambling would be a secondary attraction. This goes against pretty much every tenet of casino design, though; they don't want you to leave, ever.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by ardecila

^^ They said it. I think a lot of the optimism around a casino centers around the idea that a downtown Chicago casino would "be different", with ambitious architecture (Arquitectonica-esque), a high-end feel, and patronized by mainly high rollers and upper-middle-class folks looking for a glamorous escape, instead of the working-class and ethnic groups of compulsive gamblers.

I don't know if this is realistic. Certainly we could aim high in the planning stages, but what happens if the high rollers don't materialize and the management decides to swap out the Daniel Boulud restaurant for an all-you-can-eat buffet? Vegas has such a high volume of gamblers who travel to the city that an individual casino can afford to target a particular market segment. In Chicago, the casino will have to live with the existing population of gamblers, regardless of what class they belong to.

I don't know much about Potawatomi up in Milwaukee... their advertising projects a certain level of subdued glamour, but I don't know if that's real or not. The last time I was in Milwaukee, I was serenaded by a bunch of Elvis impersonators in the Amtrak station who were shilling for Potawatomi.

There might be promise in a scheme that sees the casino as a "home base" to explore Chicago; tourists would use the hotel and have access to world-class dining, and the gambling would be a secondary attraction. This goes against pretty much every tenet of casino design, though; they don't want you to leave, ever.

Well, if you want to shape the crowd. Step 1, remove slots. Too bad that's the money maker for the casino.

[FlashingLights]

Originally Posted by wierdaaron

I hadn't thought about it, but having a casino around would possibly drive a resurgence of Chicago's once-vibrant downtown nightlife scene. If people are at a casino into the late hours of the night, they'll probably create a demand for local restaurants to stay open later. That could ripple a few economic directions.

Have you gone out downtown? I'd say the nightlife scene is doing better than ever.

Just look at the stuff popping up on Hubbard or further west along the river in River North.

Or look at "The Mid" in Fulton Market I can keep naming more but its pointless. Just look at all the restaurants on Randolph in the West Loop.

Division and Rush is still there, although its more of a tourist trap at this point. The nightlife has only gotten stronger more recently.

[Rizzo]

Regarding Rush and division, departing from the casino discussion....I expect to see quite the dip in nightlife business in the area. Lots of demolition going on for new stuff, and Sutton Place is under a complete makeover right now. They got all the curtains pulled away from the windows and I can see the floors are gutted. I'm happy that area is getting a refresh. Even though it's always been successful, you have to keep up with new stuff. But I predict this summer we'll see a bunch of construction activity instead of drinking and partying.

[SamInTheLoop]

Yesterday sidewalk scaffolding was going up along the Wabash side. I think this renovation is about to finally get going. My sense is that the project may have been quietly delayed for the last 9-10 months or so, but we could start seeing real activity soon, for a 2014 opening...

[SamInTheLoop]

I think we may see activity start quite soon on the New City site. I think it's now a jv between Bucksbaum, Structured with equity from I believe JP Morgan. If I recall, commercial real estate online newsletter Bisnow has been reporting on Bucksbaum speaking at a recent retail real estate event, and it sounded as though debt financing (of something around $175 million or so) is either in a very advanced stage or now complete. The ArcLight Cinema deal is complete - they put out a press release themselves last month, and also I think the project is set for opening in late summer/early autumn 2014 (hopefully the residential tower at the same time....frankly there's no reason to phase it later).......so site prep would seem to need to be rather imminent...

[k1052]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

I think we may see activity start quite soon on the New City site. I think it's now a jv between Bucksbaum, Structured with equity from I believe JP Morgan. If I recall, commercial real estate online newsletter Bisnow has been reporting on Bucksbaum speaking at a recent retail real estate event, and it sounded as though debt financing (of something around $175 million or so) is either in a very advanced stage or now complete. The ArcLight Cinema deal is complete - they put out a press release themselves last month, and also I think the project is set for opening in late summer/early autumn 2014 (hopefully the residential tower at the same time....frankly there's no reason to phase it later).......so site prep would seem to need to be rather imminent...

It's bunch of gravel right now and given the history of the project I'll eat my hat if it opens late 2014. Even if they have all the money right now and started digging tomorrow I don't think it could be any earlier than sometime in mid 2015.

[ehilton44]

Originally Posted by Hayward

Completely different situation in Chicago where from a geographical standpoint, we practically already have them.

Can't be sure I agree with your speculation on the second point. I think most folks here imagine the casino going in the Post Office. It's pretty dead over there, coarse grain, and already harsh and unfriendly. Your win is a renovated building. Can't say for sure if a fenced off abandoned building or at the very least a vacant lot has some effect on devaluing a downtown, but I'm certain an income producing property could certainly enhance its surroundings. Like Detroit, the casinos would make use of fringe properties. All border less than desirable areas. Freeways, freeways and more freeways. Or ironically...the jail. Similarly, the casino would turn around what I'd consider...a liability...with the Old Main post office. That is, assuming it goes there.

That is an interesting point that I hadn't considered -- a lot of of the social costs are already here because of the close proximity casinos on the periphery. I do agree that a casino would be more valuable than a vacant lot/abandoned building, but in terms of opportunity cost wouldn't we rather have a use for those sites that engages the community rather then pulls them in? The post office already is a bridge over the Eisenhower -- if redeveloped it could provide a bridge to the neighborhood south of the Eisenhower, engaging Congress to Roosevelt with downtown in a more productive way.

I have nothing against casinos from a morality stand point. I just think from a design stand point we can do better in Chicago. As a counter point to my own argument, I've been to Marina Bay Sands in Singapore and if we could get something of that stature, it would be amazing. But that is one out of thousands. The Singaporean government is very heavy handed in how the casino relates to its citizenry and its surroundings. I don't think Chicago would put the kind of regulations in place that would force such a great building.

Anyway, ardecila hit on a couple other points. The casinos don't want you to leave, they want to keep you in. I just think there are much better ways to enhance our already dense, urban fabric than a casino in downtown.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by ehilton44

The post office already is a bridge over the Eisenhower -- if redeveloped it could provide a bridge to the neighborhood south of the Eisenhower, engaging Congress to Roosevelt with downtown in a more productive way.

The "neighborhood" south of the Eisenhower consists of warehouses (which are probably destined to become datacenters in the near to mid future) and ComEd substations . I don't see this as likely to change. The city doesn't even want to allow a residential component at The Maxwell development on Canal between Taylor and Roosevelt.

[rgolch]

Originally Posted by intrepidDesign

I don't know if Cinespace is structured the same with designers/fx and editors, I also think that shows produced here don't necessarily have to be about Chicago, especially when you have huge sets like Cinespace. As much as you don't like it, incentives do go a long way to bring productions to cities, and they pay dividends beyond just having a show about Chicago, like Boss. Jobs, jobs, jobs.

Speaking of Cinespace, I'm pretty sure the upcoming movie "Divergent" is going to be produced there. For those of you who haven't heard of it, it was a very popular young adult book about teenagers being initiated into society, which takes place in Chicago in a dystopian future. It was very popular on Amazon, and prominently featured on goodreads.com. The author is a Chicagoan and a Northwestern Grad (really sweet young lady), and she makes reference to a lot of Chicago landmarks in the book. If you can tolerate reading about a bunch of teenagers finding themselves (along with a sappy romance element), it's actually a pretty interesting book. And it has the potential of being a big box movie.

[Skyguy_7]

In September, I saw the cast of Dhoom 3 (third installment of a big Hindi series), filming at a shop in Wrigleyville. Needless to say, no one recognized any of the Bollywood "megastars", but it's definitely nice to see some international action here.

[Swicago Swi Sox]

The new restaurant in the Tribune Tower, "Howells and Hood", recently took down the large construction screening to reveal what is behind. I snapped some pics on my way home. Sorry if some of the shots are blurry...it was cold and I wanted to put my gloves back on...

I dunno how I feel with how much of the plaza they are taking up with outdoor seating...make this area seem a little cramped...however this will be a nice spot in the summer...



A closer view of the new entry (?) canopy.



A shot inside through the new windows.



Look at all those beer taps!



Not really sure how this new canopy structure relates to the existing building...seems a little too detached?

[ardecila]

I don't mind them taking up the space necessarily. Pioneer Plaza is a world-class space because of proportions and activity, on par with the great squares of Europe, but the plaza itself kinda sucks - that's why they keep bringing in all that tacky art. It's a beautiful setting with very few places to sit down and enjoy it.

Piazza San Marco in Venice was, like, 2/3 full of tables and chairs IIRC. What is galling at Howells and Hood is the fence. Very un-democratic. It should be open. Waiters can easily kick people out, and they can use some discreet signage too.

If this succeeds, I hope to see the former NBC studio space in Equitable converted to a restaurant as well, and maybe a South Branch-esque place along the river side. Surround the plaza with dining.

[the urban politician]

Presence plans $147 million medical office building on North Side

^ 10 story building at Sheridan and Surf, replacing a giant parking lot