[Halifax] Imagine Bloomfield | ? | ? | Vision

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

... Seriously, I must agree. The Province had no business even bidding on this but it was a remnant of the NDP mantra that govt can do anything as good or better than the private sector, which is, of course, sheer and utter lunacy.

If I remember correctly, didn't the gov't do WORSE on all the qualitative aspects, with the lowest technical score of respondents, winning solely on the financial package?

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Yep. And guess what I found. This is on the group's website, not Housing NS who host the "mybloomfield.ca" site.

Check it:


So, not surprisingly, it seems like NS Government has completely stalled/killed the project. They've gone dark and have not been responding to communications with the community group.

What absolute shambles. This excellent community group carefully planned this development for over a decade and HRM planning staff managed to screw it up in a matter of months. They should be absolutely ashamed and embarrassed for their incompetence on this file. And if it wasn't incompetence, but rather some behind the scenes politically pressure from then NDP government to award them the bid, then that is even more reason to withdraw the contract and re-invite tenders.

I encourage other members on here to email Imagine Bloomfield (email above) and encourage them to NOT support Housing NS and instead lobby HRM to re-tender the invitation for proposals.

I should make clear, that when I talk about HRM screwing stuff up, I appreciate that there are some significant pressures HRM staffers face. So, I mostly blame the CAO for this stuff, because his mantra seems to be nickle and dime everything. I'm sure if the NDP government proposal was selected, I'm sure there was direct/indirect involvement by government cost-cutters, who simply say: choose the one with more financial backing, even if it was a crappy, awful proposal, and that several private sector bids were superior on every score except financing.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Hedging your bets, I see.

"Berry" astute observation, Keith!

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

I should make clear, that when I talk about HRM screwing stuff up, I appreciate that there are some significant pressures HRM staffers face. So, I mostly blame the CAO for this stuff, because his mantra seems to be nickle and dime everything. I'm sure if the NDP government proposal was selected, I'm sure there was direct/indirect involvement by government cost-cutters, who simply say: choose the one with more financial backing, even if it was a crappy, awful proposal, and that several private sector bids were superior on every score except financing.

My take is that the procurement process weights financial high enough that, unless a proponent fails spectacularly, it overrides the results of technical scoring. Typically for a project such as this, they score the technical submissions first and then open financials (ostensibly so that $$ doesn't impact perception of quality). In practice, the technical scores usually have a spread between the high and low scores that is SMALLER than the proportion of the overall score that is allotted to financial.

I think that governments have a difficult time figuring out how to define value and score these things objectively.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

My take is that the procurement process weights financial high enough that, unless a proponent fails spectacularly, it overrides the results of technical scoring. Typically for a project such as this, they score the technical submissions first and then open financials (ostensibly so that $$ doesn't impact perception of quality). In practice, the technical scores usually have a spread between the high and low scores that is SMALLER than the proportion of the overall score that is allotted to financial.

I think that governments have a difficult time figuring out how to define value and score these things objectively.

In general, govt procurement is almost always badly flawed. I have a lot of direct experience with this and you can almost always make something come out to give you what you think you want. I found it frustrating because there was so much time, effort and money associated with the whole process and in many cases it was all devised simply for CYA purposes. Meanwhile firms submit expensive proposals without knowing that the game is rigged, or staff believe they are doing an impartial evaluation only to find that the scoring was designed to give a specific result. Happened all the time.

[Colin May]

Here is a good yarn re scoring.
The CAO told us the person chosen to be Police Chief was the unanimous choice of the 3 member panel. (This was after I raised a stink on the basis that the council was required to appoint the Police Chief and 'appoint ' meant Council was required to do more than rubber stamp the choice of others. At that point the prospective Chief decided he didn't want the job because of the 'controversy').
The CAO soon left for other pastures and we called the other two panel members to an in camera meeting. We brought them in separately and asked 'Was the person the unanimous choice ? ". The answer was 'No'. Then we asked 'Was he the preferred choice ? '" The answer was 'No'.
Pat Connolly wrote a column in the Daily News saying 'good riddance' to the mystery candidate that I had apparently scared off. Still have the clipping.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Here is a good yarn re scoring.
The CAO told us the person chosen to be Police Chief was the unanimous choice of the 3 member panel. (This was after I raised a stink on the basis that the council was required to appoint the Police Chief and 'appoint ' meant Council was required to do more than rubber stamp the choice of others. At that point the prospective Chief decided he didn't want the job because of the 'controversy').
The CAO soon left for other pastures and we called the other two panel members to an in camera meeting. We brought them in separately and asked 'Was the person the unanimous choice ? ". The answer was 'No'. Then we asked 'Was he the preferred choice ? '" The answer was 'No'.
Pat Connolly wrote a column in the Daily News saying 'good riddance' to the mystery candidate that I had apparently scared off. Still have the clipping.

Maybe the CAO din't understand the meaning of "unanimous"?

[Keith P.]

Well, this sounds rather ominous:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1...es-partnership

Imagine Bloomfield, the group seeking community-based development of the Bloomfield Centre property in Halifax’s North end, announced today that it has left its partnership with Housing Nova Scotia.

"It has been more than three years, since December 2012, that the request for proposals for the implementation of the Bloomfield master plan was awarded to Housing Nova Scotia," says Ron Skibbens of Imagine Bloomfield.

"We have worked closely with Housing NS over the past three years on public consultation and engagement around the design of the redevelopment. However there has been very little communication for the past year. We are extremely frustrated with the lack of progress, despite the growing need for community space and affordable housing in the North End."

Halifax City Council approved a master plan for the redevelopment of the site in 2008.

With this group out, one has to wonder what will become of the project now. For all of their flaws, they were certainly the visionaries here. Big red flag.

[Drybrain]

If this means Bloomfield is now entirely in the hands of Housing NS, we can probably write it off, wait for the site to decay until the buildings are demolished, and the site is either developed with something absolutely atrocious or sold to a private developer.

What a goddamn joke.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Well, this sounds rather ominous:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1...es-partnership




With this group out, one has to wonder what will become of the project now. For all of their flaws, they were certainly the visionaries here. Big red flag.

Ouch.

I have no reason to trust HousingNS without Imagine Bloomfield's involvement. I was not a fan of them winning before, but this makes me feel LESS hopeful.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Ouch.

I have no reason to trust HousingNS without Imagine Bloomfield's involvement. I was not a fan of them winning before, but this makes me feel LESS hopeful.

The comments made by the Housing NS rep basically amount to "everything is fine." Which is not cause for hope. But then, that's what they would have to say, even if this did come as a blow to them. I guess Imagine Bloomfield has some hope that this will instigate further movement, though it's a pretty desperate move.

The Bloomfield Facebook posting mentions concern over the state of the historic buildings on the site, which is a major concern of mine, too. (And given the similar continued inaction on the Dennis, I think we have a pretty good idea how many fucks the province gives about Halifax's historic buildings.)

I think the best shot at seeing this project move forward before the site crumbles entirely will be for the city to pull the plug on Housing NS, if such a thing is legal. But it's been three years--isn't there some kind of provision on timelines they could invoke? At the least they should start putting pressure on. This thing makes the news once or twice a year and then goes back to sleep. Housing NS either needs to lose the project, or feel consistent pressure, either from the city, community groups, or media.

It's a very different situation, of course, but I was thinking about how after the explosion in 1917, an architectural firm was hired, plans were drawn up, and construction was underway less than a year afterwards. Three years later, it was all done. And that was a whole neighbourhood. Three years after Housing NS got the tender for Bloomfield, they weren't even picking up the phone to communicate with the people at Imagine, or offer convincing explanations for the delay. It's ridiculous.

[Keith P.]

Housing NS is not equipped nor built to do a project such as this. It is the old NS Dept of Housing, a bunch of bureaucrats who administered and (sort of) maintained public housing units. They never had enough budget to do a decent job back then. I can only imagine the budget this thing would have required, and the internal battles that they lost trying to keep it after the NDP got the boot.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The comments made by the Housing NS rep basically amount to "everything is fine." Which is not cause for hope. But then, that's what they would have to say, even if this did come as a blow to them. I guess Imagine Bloomfield has some hope that this will instigate further movement, though it's a pretty desperate move.

The Bloomfield Facebook posting mentions concern over the state of the historic buildings on the site, which is a major concern of mine, too. (And given the similar continued inaction on the Dennis, I think we have a pretty good idea how many fucks the province gives about Halifax's historic buildings.)

I think the best shot at seeing this project move forward before the site crumbles entirely will be for the city to pull the plug on Housing NS, if such a thing is legal. But it's been three years--isn't there some kind of provision on timelines they could invoke? At the least they should start putting pressure on. This thing makes the news once or twice a year and then goes back to sleep. Housing NS either needs to lose the project, or feel consistent pressure, either from the city, community groups, or media.

It's a very different situation, of course, but I was thinking about how after the explosion in 1917, an architectural firm was hired, plans were drawn up, and construction was underway less than a year afterwards. Three years later, it was all done. And that was a whole neighbourhood. Three years after Housing NS got the tender for Bloomfield, they weren't even picking up the phone to communicate with the people at Imagine, or offer convincing explanations for the delay. It's ridiculous.

Not sure if this has been posted before, but it is a fairly unique piece of architecture for Halifax with a clear lineage to the rebuilding effort after the Halifax Explosion.

https://www.halifax.ca/property/BCMP...value_2006.pdf

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The comments made by the Housing NS rep basically amount to "everything is fine." Which is not cause for hope. But then, that's what they would have to say, even if this did come as a blow to them. I guess Imagine Bloomfield has some hope that this will instigate further movement, though it's a pretty desperate move.

The Bloomfield Facebook posting mentions concern over the state of the historic buildings on the site, which is a major concern of mine, too. (And given the similar continued inaction on the Dennis, I think we have a pretty good idea how many fucks the province gives about Halifax's historic buildings.)

I think the best shot at seeing this project move forward before the site crumbles entirely will be for the city to pull the plug on Housing NS, if such a thing is legal. But it's been three years--isn't there some kind of provision on timelines they could invoke? At the least they should start putting pressure on. This thing makes the news once or twice a year and then goes back to sleep. Housing NS either needs to lose the project, or feel consistent pressure, either from the city, community groups, or media.

It's a very different situation, of course, but I was thinking about how after the explosion in 1917, an architectural firm was hired, plans were drawn up, and construction was underway less than a year afterwards. Three years later, it was all done. And that was a whole neighbourhood. Three years after Housing NS got the tender for Bloomfield, they weren't even picking up the phone to communicate with the people at Imagine, or offer convincing explanations for the delay. It's ridiculous.

I agree.

My take on Imagine Bloomfield making this move is to force the issue with Council. This group was the main force and visionaries behind the entire project. Housing NS's bid is now obviously fraudulent; as per Bousquet's piece, they bid too high for it, and now can't make the development work within the specs they had agreed with.

They should NEVER have been awarded the proposal. It was a total sham, with a bid from an arm of government, with zero vision or sense of design, winning out over private developers, who had better ideas but obviously would not have the same or comparable financial backing as the stupid Provincial Government.

An excellent project that the former idiotic NDP Government made an absolute disaster of, and now the current Provincial Government, also mainly idiots, are sitting on it, God knows why.

The current Government could easily just say this was an NDP Government initiative, that we cannot afford. And seek to cancel the contract, without penalty, with the City.

In the alternative, the City should immediately announce that the House NS Government's bid is disqualified or that Housing NS has effectively repudiated the agreement.

They should then immediately re-offer the proposal to the bid that finished in second place, that would be Louis Lawen's bid.

This would the best result, leading to a faster means to get this back on track.

As for Housing NS and the City awarding them the bid -- what an utter clown show of government stupidity and incompetence. I'm steamed.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

As for Housing NS and the City awarding them the bid -- what an utter clown show of government stupidity and incompetence. I'm steamed.

I cannot argue with anything you posted. Government simply is not built or organized to allow them to deliver services as effectively or as efficiently as the private sector. The NDP govt tried to disprove that by getting govt agencies involved in a number of typically private-sector areas, of which this is one. It is, of course, a total disaster.

I'm sure the bureaucrats at the city were perfectly fine with it at the time. HRM is very left-wing in much of both its admin and elected members, so this would be very appealing to many of them. Hopefully a lesson learned for them.

The disquieting thing is that the current govt Minister involved, Joanne Bernard, was making statements over the last day or so saying she is committed to Housing NS staying the course, everything is fine, etc etc. Talk about a clown show. Someone in the Premiers Office (assuming there is anyone there with a clue) needs to pull the plug on this ASAP.

[Colin May]

The same clowns must have been in charge of PR for the bait and switch presentation last Friday afternoon when Lee Glavine tried to spin changes to the cost of Pharmacare.
The 'professional journalists' took the bait and now the truth is out the storyline has switched.

[Ziobrop]

Has the deal actually closed?
from the sounds of it, the city still owns the property..

if that's the case, Screw Housing NS. Pull the plug, let them sue (They wont)

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

Has the deal actually closed?
from the sounds of it, the city still owns the property..

if that's the case, Screw Housing NS. Pull the plug, let them sue (They wont)

The only problem, is that the City would be scared as hell of the Provincial Government.

Listening to the present Minister, for some reason she's also committed to the development, but then repeated the usual bromides, etc.

I just don't see the City having the guts to do the right thing here. This development is unfortunately doomed, and we should blame the former NDP Government and City staffers and Councillors for letting it happen. The current Government is also being idiots, but they would never have had the opportunity to do so, without the last Government and City.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

The only problem, is that the City would be scared as hell of the Provincial Government.

Listening to the present Minister, for some reason she's also committed to the development, but then repeated the usual bromides, etc.

I just don't see the City having the guts to do the right thing here. This development is unfortunately doomed, and we should blame the former NDP Government and City staffers and Councillors for letting it happen. The current Government is also being idiots, but they would never have had the opportunity to do so, without the last Government and City.

A big part of the problem is the councillor for the area, the ultra-left wing Jennifer Watts, who likely had a hand in the award originally and would be loathe to admit that govt was a poor choice for this. Her running mate on the peninsula likely sees it as a good thing too. Watts is not running for re-election thankfully, so hopefully her replacement will be someone with more sense.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

A big part of the problem is the councillor for the area, the ultra-left wing Jennifer Watts, who likely had a hand in the award originally and would be loathe to admit that govt was a poor choice for this. Her running mate on the peninsula likely sees it as a good thing too. Watts is not running for re-election thankfully, so hopefully her replacement will be someone with more sense.

Actually, I think that's right. I heard Watts and the Imagine Bloomfield guy Ron Skibbens on CBC radio the other day, and there was a clear tension between the two.

It was clear Skibbens wanted to basically give up on Housing NS, and redo the RFP, and do it privately, but Watts kept babbling about the need for social housing in the north end and that this project was key to that, and insisted on trying to use Council to get Housing NS's role back on track.

Bloomfield is clearly forcing the issue. They've just announced that they're giving up on Housing NS:

https://www.facebook.com/imaginebloo...89173407783690

“We have supported the HNS process, but to our knowledge, there is no development agreement in place and to date there has been no actual sale from the municipality to the province,” notes Ron Skibbens of Imagine Bloomfield and also a nearby resident. “It is time for us to revisit our role in the partnership and return to our core mandate – advocating for the implementation of the master plan. We feel this requires leaving the partnership at this time, however we would be open to continuing to work with HNS in the future if substantial progress is made. “