Atlantic Canada Regional Transportation Thread

[David1gray]

Originally Posted by Steelcowboy

For those who are interested, I got this from a CP conductor who tracks shipments for me.

"A train 606-245 showing on the line-ups in Wisconsin when I checked earlier. This #606 has a profile from New Town, ND to St. Luc, PQ with interchange to the MMA for furtherance to Irving Oil in Saint John, NB. Planned departure ex-New Town at 0930 Saturday AM and projected arrival into St. Luc next Tuesday evening (June 5th). Give the Maritime Boys a heads-up if you want!"

PS for those who watched CTV news on Wednesday and sw the clipping about a TEST TRAIN arriving from North Dakota...well the TEST is the routing not anything to do with the contents of the railcars. Railroads do this to decide the haulage agreements and the routing which the shipper will decide to take. This test would be deemed as a failure, a UNIT train --which is a train that contains ALL the same product or similiar should arrive as a unit to the destination, the current test had the train split into 3 parts and take 3 days to arrive at the destination, this train was also shipped by 5 different railroads, BNSF-CSXT-PanAM-MMA-NBSR. the more direct and quickest routing would have been BNSF-CN(at Chicago) to Saint John. This train that is arriving next week is originating on the CP in North Dakota and will remain on CP property right through to Saint John....even though its owned by MMA or NBSR...CP will always have grandfather rights to shipping its cargo on that line through hauling agreements settled at the time of the sale of the rail.

Once Saint John's Irving plant sets itself up to unload these cars..it will be a fluid operation were cars arrive, get unloaded and return to North Dakota.

thanks for the clarification, I've been following the NBRails group for awhile. This makes it a bit clearer as to what is going on with these shipments. Hope to catch some shots of one of these unit trains soon.

[Steelcowboy]

no problem, anymore information I get about these trains for Saint John I will keep this forum informed. It is quite interesting with the developement of this shipment to SJ. Its going to bring lots of work for IRVING, CN (I hope) and most of all the NBSR. Its nice to see a thriving rail industry!! thank gawd, otherwise I wouldn't be working here in NB. Have a great weekend...I'll keep tabs on this and any other unit train for SJ.

[MonctonRad]

This is the best image I've seen yet of the proposed route through Maine connecting Saint Stephen and Sherbrooke. This was found by Fenwick16

[mylesmalley]

The only problem I can see with that is that it'll be an even more boring drive than the 20 from Rivière-du-loup to Québec.

More than worth it for the time savings though.

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

The only problem I can see with that is that it'll be an even more boring drive than the 20 from Rivière-du-loup to Québec.

More than worth it for the time savings though.

On top of that, you would save the painful drive between Moncton and Edmundston which is also in my opinion dreadful unless you appreciate the wood and nothing else.

[JHikka]

Highway 1 twinning between Lepreau and St. Stephen is still under construction and if it isn't finished this summer it should certainly be by Spring 2013.

The drive through Maine might be boring but if it saves me hours upon hours I certainly won't complain!

[Fischbob]

Word out of a meeting with employees this morning is that VIA is cutting its Halifax-Montreal service in half, to 3 trips per week.

I've taken the train to NB many times to get back home from school at the end of the term or for reading week. Unfortunate it had to come to this, but I'm not actually that surprised given the route's current timetable. Between the condition of some sections of track and VIA's desire to give tourists a daytime view of northern NB, the train basically ambles through the night and morning, and the leg from Montreal to Moncton takes an ungodly 16 hours. If they found a way to speed up the journey and market The Ocean as an inter-regional transportation link rather than just another tourist train, I'm certain there would be a market for increased service. Otherwise, it won't be long before this train goes the way of The Atlantic.

Though I am kind of surprised they decided to do this now, while the whole Acadian Lines fiasco is still fresh in Maritimers' minds. A lost opportunity to gain market share, IMO.

[MTLskyline]

I actually find that stretch of road between Q.C. and R-du-L to be one of the more scenic parts. Especially the view of the river and the mountains on the north shore.

The most boring road is the one in between Plaster Rock and Renous....

[MTLskyline]

Originally Posted by Fischbob

Word out of a meeting with employees this morning is that VIA is cutting its Halifax-Montreal service in half, to 3 trips per week.

I've taken the train to NB many times to get back home from school at the end of the term or for reading week. Unfortunate it had to come to this, but I'm not actually that surprised given the route's current timetable. Between the condition of some sections of track and VIA's desire to give tourists a daytime view of northern NB, the train basically ambles through the night and morning, and the leg from Montreal to Moncton takes an ungodly 16 hours. If they found a way to speed up the journey and market The Ocean as an inter-regional transportation link rather than just another tourist train, I'm certain there would be a market for increased service. Otherwise, it won't be long before this train goes the way of The Atlantic.

Though I am kind of surprised they decided to do this now, while the whole Acadian Lines fiasco is still fresh in Maritimers' minds. A lost opportunity to gain market share, IMO.

Riding on the Ocean is even more tedious (and indirect) than the drive. Instead of turning off at Rivière-du-Loup toward Edmundston, it continues on to Rimouski and Campbellton/Bathurst...

Resurrecting the rail line between Sherbrooke and Saint John would definitely shave a lot of time off the trip.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MTLskyline

I actually find that stretch of road between Q.C. and R-du-L to be one of the more scenic parts. Especially the view of the river and the mountains on the north shore.

Agreed. The drive down the upper Saint John River valley is also scenic. The really deadly part of the drive is between Woodstock and Salisbury.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Fischbob

Word out of a meeting with employees this morning is that VIA is cutting its Halifax-Montreal service in half, to 3 trips per week.

Better than the alternative of eliminating the service entirely, but this is still a bitter pill.

Yet more evidence that VIA only really cares about the Quebec City to Windsor corridor. Instead of cutting back on service, the government should really be thinking about making rail travel a viable alternative to highway driving or short haul flight services. In 20 years time when there really is a global oil crisis, people will think differently about rail.

[Taeolas]

Well, Woodstock to Freddy isn't THAT bad, though not as scenic as Woodstock-north. (Mainly because you get some glimpses of the river around Nackawic and Kings landing). From Coles Island to Salisbury though, forget it. You've got nothing. (The stretch through the base isn't great either, but the bridges make up for it at the far end).

Passenger Rail in the Maritimes IMO is screwed because there isn't track between the population centres. The VIA route through the north would be fine, as long as we had a sister route that would go up the St John River valley and connect to Moncton (and another to Saint John). If they made it faster than driving, only stopping at major centres (Moncton, Freddy, Edmundston, Riviere de Loup, etc...), it might actually be useful. As is, I don't even consider the train for my travel plans. Taking so long to get to Montreal is a killer, when I can drive there as fast and usually for about the same amount.

In a dream world, I'd love to see a small commuter-like train (2 passenger cars run regularly maybe?) going between the lower NB triangle, with a spur down to Halifax and out to Sydney and out to Charlottetown too. But that age of rail is passed now, and we're a long way from having the will to reimplement it again.

It won't happen, but I also wish that Northern Maine highway also had a passenger rail connection; linking Saint John to Sherebrooke and on to Montreal directly would be fantastic.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Well, Woodstock to Freddy isn't THAT bad, though not as scenic as Woodstock-north. (Mainly because you get some glimpses of the river around Nackawic and Kings landing). From Coles Island to Salisbury though, forget it. You've got nothing. (The stretch through the base isn't great either, but the bridges make up for it at the far end).

Definitely. The TCH around Grand Lake is actually quite scenic, but between there and Salisbury is nothing but trees and endless boredom.

In terms of rail transport in NB, you're going to have to talk to the Irvings about that. They own everything in regards. I saw a passenger train sitting near Harbour Passage in Saint John yesterday. Sometimes they run a passenger train out to Rothesay for the Dragon Boat races each summer. I really wish they would make that a permanent route. I think a train run from the Valley to Saint John during peak hours would get a lot of usage.

Postscript: What's the ETA on the trans-Maine highway? 2019, 2020?

[MonctonRad]

Actually, with the Montreal service decreasing to thrice weekly, now would seem a propitious time to consider a daily train service from Saint John to Moncton and on to Halifax.

A service connecting these three CMAs would serve an urban population of about 675,000 people and if you include the intervening hinterlands, the population would rise to at least 900,000 (half the population of the Maritimes).

I think such a service could be viable and would be effective competition for intercity busses.

[JHikka]

Again, bring it up with the Irvings and let us know how you do. I personally love the idea. It's a shame that VIA is being cut when rail service is something that definitely needs to be addressed in this country, and not in a negative way.

I love the idea of a passenger train line from NB->Sherbrooke->Montreal but, with all of the rumours of the trans-Maine Highway (oil pipeline and such), if there is a railway built alongside it i'm assuming it would be mostly used for economic transport. I know there are people on this forum who know a lot more about trains than me, but that's my assumption. How would a train running across two national borders affect riding? I think there are only three or four trains that cross the border nationwide.

[JHikka]

The East-West Maine Corridor Highway has an official website: http://www.eastwestme.com

There is a presentation on what the highway will be like and a larger map of where exactly it goes:
http://eastwestme.com/Portals/3/EW%2...Y%202012Fa.pdf

[kwajo]

Love it, hope it gets built ASAP. I see this as a big plus for New Brunswick and Saint John in particular, given how time-consuming the Trans Canada is into New Brunswick.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm pretty sure this project has been shelved due to the current pecuniary difficulties of the province, but I can understand them completing the surveying for the highway. That would be a low cost item but a necessary one to allow for them to do further budgeting and planning.

The traffic volumes along the southern portion of route 11 are actually reasonably high, and certainly much greater than on most of the Moncton/Fredericton stretch of the TCH. The highway from Bouctouche to Shediac certainly could be divided, if for nothing else than purely for highway safety reasons. Highway 11 is flat, straight and has no passing lanes. It encourages reckless passing attempts. I certainly don't feel safe on this highway.

If dividing the highway from Shediac to Richibucto would cost $370M, it would seem reasonable that it would cost about $200M to divide it to Bouctouche. This is an achievable goal and this should be the first section twinned. Hopefully it could be done in the next 10 years.

I find this portion of the proposed alignment intriguing:



This includes the bypass around Shediac and the connection of route 11 to route 15. The red lines on the document indicate proposed realignments from the current roadway. You can see that the 11/15 interchange is completely reworked and would be much safer than the current alignment. In particular, the westbound offramp from the 11 leading to the 15 will join with the exit from Main St in Shediac onto the 15. This would be a huge improvement over the current short suicide exit onto the 11 from Main St!

Here is the newest alignment for the 11/15 interchange:

Compared to the 1st and 2nd ones. (the blue is the original)
[IMG][/IMG]

[josh_cat_eyes]

Also what is the status of the proposed Janeville-Pokemouche Bypass because the GNB website only has this bypass of Carquet.

[mylesmalley]

That new alignment makes a lot more sense if you ask me. You would actually stay on proper divided highway from Moncton onto the new road, rather than the weird setup they have right now to get on to route 11.

I still think that this particular part of the highway is the only one that really could benefit from twinning and realignment though. The rest of the highway could be significantly improved just by adding a third lane for passing every few km.