Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ligue de Hockey de l'Ouest de l'Outaouais Québécois.

wow that is a mouthful. Do they play at Centre Slushpuppie?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Loco101

It amazes me that the two provincial parties in Quebec that are pro-sovereignty are doing so poorly and may be reduced to almost nothing soon.

CAQ is also pro-sovereignty (even if with lots of caveats), right?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

CAQ is also pro-sovereignty (even if with lots of caveats), right?

It would be more accurate to say that they are pro-federalist (but with lots of caveats).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

They said the French word "nègre".

In what context?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

When my kids were younger we had party at our place with a whole bunch of families, and later in the evening we had music on, everyone was dancing and when Mony Mony came on all of the francophone middle class white collar parents started chanting "hey mother fucker get laid get fucked!"

The lone anglo (albeit married to a francophone) was totally freaking out.

You should have played that one to see the reactions:

• Video Link

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It would be more accurate to say that they are pro-federalist (but with lots of caveats).

Perhaps they are just pro-caveats, as long as they stay in power. Power is good.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

They said the French word "nègre".

Wouldn't this word be similar to "negro" in English? It is archaic, but not a slur like the real "n" word.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

CAQ is also pro-sovereignty (even if with lots of caveats), right?

Loco101’s post was a pretty clueless take; first off QS is doing really well for a newish, fringe party. (It’s like an outside observer noticing the Federal Greens polling at 15% and declaring that to be “doing poorly”.)

PQ is doing poorly because it’s getting supplanted by the CAQ as a semi-sovereigntist option at one end and by QS at the other end. Both much fresher parties…

The only truly federalist party (PLQ) is ALSO doing extraordinarily poorly, so one could equally conclude that federalism in Quebec has never been that unpopular.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Wouldn't this word be similar to "negro" in English? It is archaic, but not a slur like the real "n" word.

English has three levels while French has two, so they don’t always match perfectly. But when used as an insult, it’s fully equivalent. Blacks in Quebec don’t like being insulted for gratuitous reasons any more than blacks in Anglo North America do.

[JHikka]

Since no context has been provided:

Nadeau-Dubois pressured to say racial slur during Quebec election debate
Rachel Lau
Updated Sept. 16, 2022 11:06 a.m. EDT

During a one-on-one discussion as part of the French-language debate Thursday night on TVA, Québec Solidaire (QS) Spokesperson Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois was pressured by Parti Québécois (PQ) Leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon to say a racial slur.

The conversation circulated around the idea of academic freedom and where lines should be drawn when it comes to freedom of expression.

"I think that is up to students and teachers," Nadeau-Dubois states. "I think all ideas are allowed to be said, are allowed to be debated; books should be read and debated."

When asked by TVA moderator Pierre Bruneau if certain books should be banned, St-Pierre Plamondon states freedom of speech, art and expression are fundamental parts of democracy, and people shouldn't be insulted for having different views.

Nadeau-Dubois responds by saying he agrees, noting as a society, we should be able to debate such ideas -- and accept constructive criticism of our values.

"All of this is part of academic freedom," he adds before Bruneau interrupts him to ask if he was ready to name such examples of controversial academic works -- "the book by Pierre Vallières, for example."

Pierre Vallières, a Quebec journalist and writer, is renowned as an intellectual leader of the Front de libération du Québec who wrote a book titled N----- blancs d'Amérique (White n------ of America).

"It's not about banning words or banning books," Nadeau-Dubois fires back. "It's normal for there to be debates because society changes and mentalities evolve."

Once again, the QS spokesperson is cut off, this time by St-Pierre Plamondon, who pressures him to name Vallières' book.

"Are you capable of stating the title of this book?" he asks.

"Of course," Nadeau-Dubois answers, stating the book's full title.


https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/n...bate-1.6071207

Sounds like Nadeau-Dubois did the same thing that users here have argued for the longest time, which is that he should be allowed to say a/the word if it's for academic 'freedom' or literary purposes. Either way, don't see any sort of controversy here.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Loco101’s post was a pretty clueless take; first off QS is doing really well for a newish, fringe party. (It’s like an outside observer noticing the Federal Greens polling at 15% and declaring that to be “doing poorly”.)

PQ is doing poorly because it’s getting supplanted by the CAQ as a semi-sovereigntist option at one end and by QS at the other end. Both much fresher parties…

The only truly federalist party (PLQ) is ALSO doing extraordinarily poorly, so one could equally conclude that federalism in Quebec has never been that unpopular.

CAQ leader and outgoing Premier François Legault re-iterated last night that the CAQ would not be holding a referendum on independence.

But according to polling just over 40% of CAQ voters would vote Oui to a referendum on independence.

Which is actually higher than the % of voters for Québec solidaire who would vote Oui, even if it is officially an indépendantiste party.

[New Brisavoine]

Controversy in a teacup apparently. In that context, nègre is not offensive at all in French (or if someone should find it offensive here, that would be the old Anglo-Quebeckers, who were accused, in the title of that book, of bossing around the Québécois like nègres in the old south, basically).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

CAQ leader and outgoing Premier François Legault re-iterated last night that the CAQ would not be holding a referendum on independence.

But according to polling just over 40% of CAQ voters would vote Oui to a referendum on independence.

Which is actually higher than the % of voters for Québec solidaire who would vote Oui, even if it is officially an indépendantiste party.

Interesting. If ever Québec voted for independence, it would be because someone like Legault would propose it (PQ is too vilified for that now). But I don't think he has the guts for that. It takes guts, and putting principles before one's career, which is rarely found in politicians nowadays.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Interesting. If ever Québec voted for independence, it would be because someone like Legault would propose it (PQ is too vilified for that now). But I don't think he has the guts for that. It takes guts, and putting principles before one's career, which is rarely found in politicians nowadays.

Is it guts, or does LeGeault just genuinely think it is not a risk worth taking, and that almost all of Quebec's aspirational goals can be accomplished in Canada.

After all, a nearly fully autonomous Quebec in Canada would be no different than France in the EU (aside from having embassies abroad, and control over the armed forces and foreign policy). Even there, there is a move afoot to establish a unified European army.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Is it guts, or does LeGeault just genuinely think it is not a risk worth taking, and that almost all of Quebec's aspirational goals can be accomplished in Canada.

After all, a nearly fully autonomous Quebec in Canada would be no different than France in the EU (aside from having embassies abroad, and control over the armed forces and foreign policy). Even there, there is a move afoot to establish a unified European army.

I think you are mistaken if you think that the current trend for the EU is towards more centralization.

That is a view that is outdated now.

Things have changed dramatically since the financial, migrant, etc. crises.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Interesting. If ever Québec voted for independence, it would be because someone like Legault would propose it (PQ is too vilified for that now). But I don't think he has the guts for that. It takes guts, and putting principles before one's career, which is rarely found in politicians nowadays.

My sense is that if reliable polling was highly in favour of independence, that Legault might look around his party caucus, assess his support, and make a move for it.

After all, it was his personal dream for the first 40-50 years of his life.

Stuff like that doesn't go away completely.

And what I just said is suspected of Legault by a lot of adamant federalists in Quebec.

[MolsonExport]

I doubt that Legault has completely legault of sovereignty. (jk)

Problem is, Quebec is currently doing great out of confederation. Until some old farts in Brockville or North Bottlefart do something stupid like trample on a Quebec flag.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Since no context has been provided:

Nadeau-Dubois pressured to say racial slur during Quebec election debate
Rachel Lau
Updated Sept. 16, 2022 11:06 a.m. EDT

During a one-on-one discussion as part of the French-language debate Thursday night on TVA, Québec Solidaire (QS) Spokesperson Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois was pressured by Parti Québécois (PQ) Leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon to say a racial slur.

The conversation circulated around the idea of academic freedom and where lines should be drawn when it comes to freedom of expression.

"I think that is up to students and teachers," Nadeau-Dubois states. "I think all ideas are allowed to be said, are allowed to be debated; books should be read and debated."

When asked by TVA moderator Pierre Bruneau if certain books should be banned, St-Pierre Plamondon states freedom of speech, art and expression are fundamental parts of democracy, and people shouldn't be insulted for having different views.

Nadeau-Dubois responds by saying he agrees, noting as a society, we should be able to debate such ideas -- and accept constructive criticism of our values.

"All of this is part of academic freedom," he adds before Bruneau interrupts him to ask if he was ready to name such examples of controversial academic works -- "the book by Pierre Vallières, for example."

Pierre Vallières, a Quebec journalist and writer, is renowned as an intellectual leader of the Front de libération du Québec who wrote a book titled N----- blancs d'Amérique (White n------ of America).

"It's not about banning words or banning books," Nadeau-Dubois fires back. "It's normal for there to be debates because society changes and mentalities evolve."

Once again, the QS spokesperson is cut off, this time by St-Pierre Plamondon, who pressures him to name Vallières' book.

"Are you capable of stating the title of this book?" he asks.

"Of course," Nadeau-Dubois answers, stating the book's full title.


https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/n...bate-1.6071207

Sounds like Nadeau-Dubois did the same thing that users here have argued for the longest time, which is that he should be allowed to say a/the word if it's for academic 'freedom' or literary purposes. Either way, don't see any sort of controversy here.

This isn't a bad summary.

The debate over the n-word in Quebec is also seen as a resistance to the importation of American-centric narratives, dogmas and demons here.

(Anglo-Canada doesn't resist that stuff so much, if at all anymore.)

As someone from France I am you will understand the societal impulse to resist certain US influences.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I doubt that Legault has completely legault of sovereignty.

He himself says that he has abandoned the pursuit of it because Québécois aren't there. Not sure if he means "are no longer there" or "are not yet there".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Wouldn't this word be similar to "negro" in English? It is archaic, but not a slur like the real "n" word.

It's somewhere in between the two terms in English.

Though due to US influence, it's probably moved a bit closer to the more abhorrent English word.

But still not quite there.

Note that we have hundreds of thousands of people of Haitian origin here who when they speak Creole use the word "nèg" for "man".

It's the actual word in the Creole dictionary for "man".

So in that sense a bit different from how some African-Americans colloquially refer to each other.