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  #41  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by LMich View Post

BTW, what's the name of the apartment tower? The southwest is one of the sides I'm most unfamiliar with, and that's true of a lot of Detroiters and why city government, since as long as I can remember, ignore it. But, in a way it's been a blessing, too, because it escaped a lot of the "urban renewal" that the city inflicted on other parts of the city.
I believe thats the West Warren Seniors apartments, off of West Grand. Could be wrong though.
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  #42  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2008, 5:45 AM
hudkina hudkina is offline
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Yeah, I believe it's called Warren West Apartments.
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  #43  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 1:49 AM
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I grew up in that area, and went to school at condon. Let me clear a couple of things up, those "shotgun shacks" are actually craftsmen homes, though to the untrained eye, they might appear to be shotguns. Craftsmens have higher foundations, taller peaks for full attics or living space if you want to convert, basements, and are made of more solid materials with more detail, especially interior detail. Correct me anyone if I'm wrong, but shotguns were originally built with tin roofs, while craftsmens like regular homes were built with shingled roofs, and I don't recall tin roofs in Detroit. Craftsmens are mostly found in northeast and midwestern industrial/blue collar areas. Shotguns are found generally in the south.

Also, those flats don't come in 2-3 units, they come in even numbered units, from 2-4, and sometimes 8.

Almost forgot, I'm not so sure that those back alley homes were "carriage" homes, Detroit was so crowded at one time that a number of lots shared two houses, one on the front, and one on the back. I lived in a back alley home when I was little, and it was just a regular house. Our front "yard" shared the back of an apartment building. Carriage houses were for wealthy people, and built along with larger victorians and mansions, not behind craftsmens, flats, and apartment buildings. If you want to see carriage homes, go to Brush Park, assuming any are left.

Last edited by Exodus; Dec 22, 2008 at 2:09 AM.
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  #44  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 5:21 AM
hudkina hudkina is offline
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I was using the "carriage house" term liberally. I know that these weren't originally built as carriage houses, but they were built in a manner similar to being a carriage house.
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  #45  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 6:15 PM
Exodus Exodus is offline
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Originally Posted by jodelli View Post
I believe thats the West Warren Seniors apartments, off of West Grand. Could be wrong though.
I think the name is correct, but it's on Scotten, not the Blvd.
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  #46  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 6:27 PM
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Originally Posted by hudkina View Post
I was using the "carriage house" term liberally. I know that these weren't originally built as carriage houses, but they were built in a manner similar to being a carriage house.
OK, no problem.

BTW, You hit all around places I once lived. I'm pretty sure you even walked passed at least one place I lived.


I once lived across the street from this lot on 35th. The lot used to be an elementary school, and was the first school my older brothers attended. I've always loved that second empire building in the background there on the corner of Buchanan and Junction, I see they painted it blue.


I believe this is 28th looking toward Buchanan, which is right around the corner from the street I grew up on, 29th. Our house is gone, and has since been replaced with a new infill house.


I used to look at this from the back of my house at one time...


....along with this


This is almost the view from my front porch wear I lived several years ago



Thanks for posting and sharing these.
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  #47  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 6:48 PM
hudkina hudkina is offline
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Since you grew up here, what did you call the neighborhood? Did it have a name?
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  #48  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 7:53 PM
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Since you grew up here, what did you call the neighborhood? Did it have a name?
Not as far as I remember. We just called it the westside, The Michigan/Junction area, or the Michigan Livernoise area. I think some people refered to it as the Newberry area because of the school on 29th. The Blvd. and Buchanan area was refered to as the Condon area because of the middle school.
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  #49  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 8:37 PM
UglymanCometh UglymanCometh is offline
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Those shotgun shacks are VERY common around those parts... that's my fiancee's neighbourhood.

I would say that a few of those pics are from her street... but in her neck of the woods, most of the streets look the same: three or four homes per block, etc...
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  #50  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 2:54 AM
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Originally Posted by UglymanCometh View Post
Those shotgun shacks are VERY common around those parts... that's my fiancee's neighbourhood.

I would say that a few of those pics are from her street... but in her neck of the woods, most of the streets look the same: three or four homes per block, etc...
Again Those are not shotgun shacks in Detroit, but a particular variation of craftsmen homes. Some of them do have a general design that is slightly similar, but there are differences that might be overlooked by too many.

A. Craftsmens have higher peaks, which are tall enough to be used as another floor if you choose, while shotguns generally have crawl spaces. B. They generally have taller foundations, and basements. C. They are generally a little wider. D. They were built with shingled roofs, while originally shotguns were built with tin roofs. E. Craftsmens have more detail, especially the interior, and not just the decoration you will find on a few spiffed up shotguns. F. Craftsmens are generally built with heavier or thicker materal, ie, the post. Last but not least, shotguns are generally found in or near the south, while craftsmens are mostly found in the northeast and midwest.

Not to say there aren't a handful of exceptions, because I've seen a handful of homes that could pass as shotgun shacks, minus the tin roofs, over by the Ambassador bridge, assuming there's any left now, and they were technically called workers cottages. All of those houses in southwest Detroit you call "shotgun shacks", are not shotguns at all. I hope the explanation along with the visual aide clears things up.

Here are some photos of craftsmens, and shotguns, now look at the actually differences. I will alternate the pics, so you can compare next to one another.

Shotgun


http://www.flickr.com/photos/johncta...n/photostream/

Craftsmen


Shotgun


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sisterbeer/2605017721/

Craftsmen


Shotgun


http://www.flickr.com/photos/21061651@N08/2559626596/

Craftsmen


Shotgun


http://www.flickr.com/photos/nateone/76807307/

Craftsmen


The craftsmen pics are of course hudkinas. It kind turned out to be a halfway comparison of New Orleans and Detroit, because half of the shotguns are in New orleans(pics 1 & 3).

Last edited by Exodus; Dec 23, 2008 at 5:51 AM.
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  #51  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 5:15 AM
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Great thread Hudkina, I really love urban decay threads especially detroit.

Thats a pretty bad neighborhood. Is it really the most bombed out area in SWD? I thought it was delray or maybe the neighborhoods around W.Warren ave. I heard the area bordered by Warren, Sarena, and the Railroad Tracks is very blighted(burned homes,vacant buildings,garbage,etc). Hopefully you could take or add pics of that neighborhood.

Thanks for the thread. Hope to see more like it in the near future.
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  #52  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 5:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Central View Post
Great thread Hudkina, I really love urban decay threads especially detroit.

Thats a pretty bad neighborhood. Is it really the most bombed out area in SWD? I thought it was delray or maybe the neighborhoods around W.Warren ave. I heard the area bordered by Warren, Sarena, and the Railroad Tracks is very blighted(burned homes,vacant buildings,garbage,etc). Hopefully you could take or add pics of that neighborhood.

Thanks for the thread. Hope to see more like it in the near future.
Actually that is the westside, I don't know why people assume Detroit is either just northwest or southwest ? The southwest side more or less starts around John Kronk, while the northwest side more or less starts at Warren. Michigan Ave. pretty much cuts straight through the heart of the west side. And I would guess that while the near west side is pretty bombed out, I would say that Delray/southside and parts of the eastside are worse. And yes, Detroit has a south side, because Delray and Zug Island is a little more south of downtown than west. It starts south of Fort St. at the railroad tracks give or take to the river, and Jefferson Ave. is THE main drag through that area, which is more deppressed than Michigan Ave. Fort St. is almost a border between southwest and south.
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  #53  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 6:47 AM
hudkina hudkina is offline
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Delray is a relatively small neighborhood that is mostly industrial, but it is probably Southwest Detroit's most blighted neighborhood. Granted, a lot of that has to do with the city not actively looking to redevelop the neighborhood.

BTW, I think of SW Detroit as being everything south of I-94.
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  #54  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 7:32 AM
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I generally think of it, most generally, as beginning south of Michigan because of how the physical geography begings to change (i.e. slopping towards the river).

BTW, there is no colloquial "southside" and people would laugh at you if you ever said you were from the "southside" of Detroit.
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  #55  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by LMich View Post
I generally think of it, most generally, as beginning south of Michigan because of how the physical geography begings to change (i.e. slopping towards the river).

BTW, there is no colloquial "southside" and people would laugh at you if you ever said you were from the "southside" of Detroit.
I wouldn't say laugh, but they might not understand, because they have always known it as delray, and I've always called it delray also.

If you look at where zug island is, it is obvious that it is a little more south of downtown than west, which would technically make it south, not southwest, maybe south, southwest at the best, and it is the closest thing Detroit has to a southside. So if it can loosely be called the "southwest side", when it is actually more south than west, like I've said, then why would an educated person laugh if it was loosely called the "southside" ???

"Laugh" is a bit of an Exaggeration, and I just knew when I saw your name, there would be some opposition towards me, go figure. Not trying to start an argument, just stating exactly what popped in my mind before I even clicked into the thread. Anyways, as a person who grew up on that side of downtown, I thought it was strange when I came on here, and saw somebody call delray the southwest side for the first time. I didn't laugh, could have, but was more like...wtf ??? It's delray by name, and a bit more close to the south by geography.

As you can see on both pics, the area known as delray sits slightly more to the south of downtown, than west. My work isn't perfect, but it is obvious that it does, which would make it the "southside", or technically speaking, south by southwest.


As you can clearly see on this one, Michigan Ave. runs pretty much east & west, and then draw a straight line through it down from 8 Mile that runs north & south pretty much, then draw an "x" that represents the nw, ne, sw, & sw directions, which Vernor pretty much runs southwest, and wala, delray, zug island, and its main drag, Jefforson Ave. is clearly south enough of that southwest line. That it is south by southwest of downtown if you want to get technical, or like I've said, more of the southside.


Again, once you get south of the Fisher Freeway, you are clearly out of the southwest zone, clearly. So if it is more south than west, even though technically direct south would be in the river, still why not quit splitting hairs on that and call it the "southside", or delray is basically the "southside" of Detroit. Once you consider that downtown sits on a slight angle, and then look at the bigger picture, it actually is south Detroit, though not true south of where and how downtown sits, and how the river cuts on that angle right there. It all depends on where you want to start from, the overall city, or downtown. Either way, it isn't in the southwest zone. I hope this clears things up a bit.

Last edited by Exodus; Dec 23, 2008 at 11:16 AM.
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  #56  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 4:33 PM
hudkina hudkina is offline
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Zug Island is actually in the city of River Rouge.

You could call anything south of Michigan Ave the "south side" because it is south of the Point of Origin. Granted, virtually all of the land is in the Southwestern quadrant. Hell, it's mostly in the WSW octant.

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  #57  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 5:08 PM
UglymanCometh UglymanCometh is offline
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Southside: Anything south(west) of the Rouge River where W. Fort Street becomes S. Fort Street.

/rampant ironic sarcasm
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  #58  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 5:36 PM
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Journey [w]on't stop believin' in south Detroit.

Just a small town girl, livin' in a lonely world
She took the midnight train goin' anywhere
Just a city boy, born and raised in south Detroit
He took the midnight train goin anywhere
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  #59  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 7:19 PM
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Zug Island is actually in the city of River Rouge.

You could call anything south of Michigan Ave the "south side" because it is south of the Point of Origin. Granted, virtually all of the land is in the Southwestern quadrant. Hell, it's mostly in the WSW octant.

There is also the quadrants like south by southwest and so forth, and that area is more south than west, so unless you want to split hairs and get technical, it is more of the southside than anything. And like I've stated, if a person can get away with loosely calling delray the "southwest" side, then a person shouldn't be "laughed" at for loosely calling it "south". And zug island is a point I was just pointing out, as you head that way out of the city, you head "down" river.

Again, if you run a direct north/south, and east/west lines on the overall map, it is obvious that delray is pretty much south. It's not acurate to do it really starting from downtown, because downtown and Woodward run north by northwest, because the river cuts up on the angle right there, cutting out basically the southeast corner land wise, it's like a triangle almost. And if you did run the line from downtown and Woodward, you would be running it from a north by northwest angle, which by all means would at least put delray south by southwest. Which brings us back to the fact that delray is at least more south than west, which would basically over all put it right at an actual southern region, or southern most point of the city, a point that dead ends south at the river, and starts the end of the river that is known as all as the "down" river area. I can't help what it is called by name, or what people are used to saying it is, in reality, no ifs, ands, or butts, delray is basically south Detroit.

Last edited by Exodus; Dec 25, 2008 at 10:55 AM.
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