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Old Posted Feb 25, 2022, 3:51 AM
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Major redevelopment is in the works for downtown Hamilton. Do shelters fit in?
A private consortium has plans for a ‘live, work, play’ precinct in the core that includes modernized arts and entertainment venues, mixed-use residential, and new eateries and shops. Those plans do not include The Salvation Army — stoking debate over whether shelters can coexist with a revived downtown.

By Teviah Moro
Spectator Reporter
https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilto...-precinct.html

Phil Reape’s frostbitten fingertips are a nasty reminder of the time he didn’t have a warm bed at the Salvation Army in downtown Hamilton.

Reape says he missed curfew one night at the packed York Boulevard shelter and couldn’t get back in during a coronavirus outbreak.

Facing bitter cold, he tried to stay warm by burning hand sanitizer in a tent and huddling in parking garages.

“You get up in the morning and you can’t even move. It was so cold.”

His fingers are blackened and scabbed, but Reape survived the ordeal and is back at Hamilton’s largest men’s shelter this frigid February evening, hoping to find a place to live like dozens of others inside.

The Salvation Army has been on the downtown site for more than a 100 years and its brick building has welcomed homeless men to its Hamilton Booth Centre since the 1950s.

But a private consortium says the shelter doesn’t fit with its vision for an arts and entertainment precinct in the area.

Shelters are “extremely important,” says Jasper Kujavsky, a partner in the Hamilton Urban Precinct Entertainment Group (HUPEG).

“But are they best located in an urban core right next to an arena and restaurants and patios? Not necessarily.”

Last year, HUPEG struck a long-term leasing arrangement with the city to refurbish and operate FirstOntario Centre, FirstOntario Concert Hall and the Hamilton Convention Centre.

City officials hailed the deal — the details of which remain confidential — as a way to save taxpayers $155 million in operating and capital costs over 30 years.

In exchange for pouring tens of millions into revamping the city-owned venues, the consortium also picks up three municipal properties.

They include the York Boulevard parkade, a parking lot behind it on Vine Street and another parcel at York and Caroline Street North.

HUPEG — which includes the Carmen’s Group, labour union LIUNA, Meridian Credit Union and Paletta Group — aims to build mixed-use residential highrises in the area.

The idea is that the added density will generate new eateries and shops to serve future residents who will live near a modernized FirstOntario Centre, the former Copps Coliseum at the corner Bay Street North.

“At the heart of this, we’re talking about the creation of a precinct — an arts and entertainment district — where it’s live, work and play,” PJ Mercanti, CEO of Carmen’s, told The Spectator.

But “everything has to be in its best place,” said Kujavsky, addressing the question of the 82-bed men’s shelter.

“Cities have to have social services, and cities have to have arts and entertainment. You want them to be in the most optimized locations.”

Some at city hall make the same case.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger said the Booth Centre is “out of sync” with redevelopment plans for the area. He hopes the Salvation Army can find another location.

“Look, we need shelters. We need shelter space, now more than ever. The question becomes where and how.”

The Salvation Army has “done incredible work for generations,” said Coun. Jason Farr, who represents downtown.

It’s up to the Christian-based charity to decide whether to move, but the area has been “designated, for a lack of a better word, for an entertainment district,” Farr said.

Others have a different take.

“I think it’s disgusting ... that folks that are very keen on delivering an entertainment district and an exciting, energetic vibrant downtown core aren’t able to see that there can be a coexistence of realities,” Coun. Nrinder Nann said.

HUPEG’s position on the shelter is the “epitome of privilege,” said Don Seymour, executive director of Wesley Urban Ministries.

“That’s just NIMBY with a lot of money,” he contended, using the acronym for “not in my backyard.”

The consortium, meanwhile, insists it’s not pressuring the Salvation Army to leave.

HUPEG “will work in a sensitive way and collaboratively with them to look at options in the core” to relocate its services, Kujavsky said.

“This cannot happen unless the Salvation Army is happy and in agreement with whatever plan is presented to them, but we are certainly going to be proactively, as an organization, trying to fashion a plan for them that does all of that.”

The Salvation Army, however, says it remains “committed to the current location,” which also includes its community and family services building, “for the foreseeable future.”

The organization has “met with developers on a couple of occasions, and at their request” to hear their plans, the Ontario Division wrote in an emailed statement.

The Salvation Army declined The Spectator’s recent interview requests, but in an earlier conversation, spokesperson Glenn van Gulik noted the Booth Centre is centrally located for those it serves.

Being close to other social services downtown is also important, van Gulik added.

“It is about recognizing that we’re part of a system, that we don’t stand alone, that we work with others, and in that light we need to be considerate of and be engaged in connecting with all of those agency partners.”

Major developments planned

The bulldozers and cranes haven’t yet converged on York Boulevard.

But with major developments planned — in addition to HUPEG’s — the blueprints for change are being drafted.

• IN8 aims to demolish the long-ailing Hamilton City Centre — the former Eaton Centre connected to Jackson Square — to build four residential towers, with street-facing commercial space.

With a site plan submitted, owner Darryl Firsten said he hopes to soon have city approval and expects a “long demolition” to start at the end of this year or beginning of 2023.

The project — which he initially pegged at $700 million in 2020, but is now likely a “bigger number” due to inflation — promises to breathe more life into downtown, Firsten said.

“In total, we would add the better part of 3,000 people downtown and hopefully we’re the tip of the iceberg.”

• Real Properties, which owns Jackson Square next door, has no plans to move into residential development but encourages more of it.

“It would definitely be beneficial for our owner-operator stores, for sure,” leasing manager Jocelyne Mainville said.

• Developer Aaron Collina has purchased the 1.75-acre Philpott Memorial Church property on York Boulevard next to the Salvation Army with plans for a high-density, mixed-use project.

The congregation plans to move into the former Lincoln Alexander Centre on King Street East near Gore Park in 2024.

Overall, the deal involved seven properties, six parties, three brokerages and 2.76 acres with the price per acre at “well over $11 million,” noted John MacNamara of Blair Blanchard Stapleton Limited.

• A block east at MacNab Street North, new owners aim to restore the historic Coppley building, a former textile factory that dates to 1856.

The Hamilton Community Foundation plans to transform the 70,000-square-foot building into its headquarters and establish a community hub in partnership with Toronto developer TAS.

“Part of our explicit agenda is we’d like to protect space for community use, affordable community use,” said Terry Cooke, foundation CEO.

Filling in “missing teeth” — like parking lots or underutilized sites — in and around York to add density through development will create more vibrancy, he said.

“So I’m bullish on the future of this area, but it’s not because of mega projects,” such as a revamped FirstOntario Centre, “as it is a bunch of smaller infill contributions.”

• Kitty-corner from the arena, the shuttered Sir John A. Macdonald Secondary building sits on an eight-acre property that stretches from Bay to Hess.

The province has rejected its funding requests, but the school board still hopes to build an elementary school there. Just a few years ago, HUPEG members eyed the vast property as the potential site of a convention centre. York Boulevard — originally Merrick Street — has seen its fair share of massive developments.

The former Copps Coliseum and Jackson Square are the jigsaw pieces of a years-long urban renewal project that saw blocks of Victorian-era buildings razed in the late-1960s.

The Hamilton Farmers’ Market and Central Library, which help form the York streetscape, also ended up part of the sprawling puzzle. The Hamilton City Centre, formerly Eaton Centre, opened in 1990.

Kevin Whyte, operations manager at G.S. Dunn, has watched the area change during his 35 years with the dry mustard miller just a few steps north of York on Park Street.

From his perspective, the cresting wave of investment bodes well for the area.

“I really do think it’s going to be great for the city — quite frankly, I think perhaps long overdue.”

G.S. Dunn, whose industrial roots go back more than a century and has been on Park since the late-1950s, plans to stick around for it, Whyte says.

“We have $30-million-plus worth of equipment — and specialized equipment, I should add — tied up in our facility to produce the product that we produce.”

The business processes mustard seeds into flour and ships the product to more than 70 countries.

G.S. Dunn has been a good neighbour by trying to keep truck traffic to a minimum and using technology to lower the din of machinery, Whyte says.
“I don’t see any problem going forward.”

Cooke views the Salvation Army in a similar light.

“Far be it for me to tell them what to do, but I don’t see it as incompatible with the changing neighbourhood, and frankly, part of the urban mixture,” he said.

“It’s a whole range of people, opportunities, challenges that have to coexist.”

Shelters on prime real estate

The Salvation Army isn’t the only shelter drawing attention.
A few blocks north, Mission Services knows it sits on coveted ground at the corner of James and Barton.

“People are always approaching us because obviously that’s a piece of prime real estate in the core,” associate executive director Wendy Kennelly said.

Would-be buyers offer to find the agency another site, but the location must be right: correct zoning, close to the core, along a major transit route, Kennelly said.

The men’s shelter has its detractors, but on balance, Mission Services has “coexisted very, very, well” with its neighbours since its arrival in 1956.

Starting in the mid-2000s, James North saw an influx of artists and galleries drawn to cheap rents relative to Toronto, generating a creative renaissance.

But amid an ensuing flurry of investment — as new eateries, bars and condos joined the streetscape — rents became too high for some to stick around.

Across Hamilton, which hit a record $2-billion building-permit year in 2021, the inner-city gentrification is coupled with a perfect storm of hardship: Renovictions, unaffordable housing, stagnant social-assistance rates, homeless encampments, packed shelters, opioid overdoses, the pandemic.

Hamilton’s database of people who access services like shelters and drop-in centres reached 1,375 at the end of last September, according to the latest figure the city has provided.

That was higher than at any other time in 2021 or 2020, but data collection has also improved, which could have led to the identification of more people.

Of those, about 47 per cent are considered chronically homeless, or for at least six months in the past year or at least 18 months over the past three.

“This is an issue that’s steeped in a lack of housing and a lack of health-care supports for people that are very ill,” says Don Seymour of Wesley Urban Ministries.

At its drop-in centre on Catharine Street North, Wesley offers an array of essential services, including meals, harm-reduction supplies and help finding housing.

But if James and York are in flux, so is the turf around Wesley.

In the next block, Hamilton Urban Core Community Health Centre’s longtime home on Rebecca Street has been demolished to make way for a 30-storey residential tower.

Urban Core, which operates Hamilton’s only supervised consumption site, has found temporary digs for its services elsewhere in the core. It plans to build a new centre on Cannon Street near Wentworth.

Seymour says Wesley’s landlord is committed to the agency, but there is pushback from certain quarters.

“A lot of our neighbours have made it clear they don’t like us here. They blame us for the people that are here.”

Wesley reached out to apartment dwellers to work out the issues, including complaints about people in John Rebecca Park.

But Seymour said the response was abrupt.

“They just said, ‘We want you gone.’ That was it.”

‘Downtown is for everybody’

As life grows more unaffordable, low-income residents are displaced from downtown.

But it’s “unlikely” all will be forced to live elsewhere, says a University of Waterloo professor who is studying gentrification in Hamilton.

“So having service organizations that assist those communities, where they are located is absolutely essential,” said Brian Doucet, who is Canada Research Chair in urban change and social inclusion.

“Especially if a city is saying our city, our downtown is for everybody. Well, that means everybody.”

To strike the right balance, municipalities need to be more deliberate in ensuring development addresses social needs like affordability, Doucet suggests.

“I think the conversation needs to shift from we basically welcome any kind of development to critically looking at how a large redevelopment project is going to enhance the lives and opportunities for everyone in the city.”

That includes LRT, which delivered condos in Kitchener-Waterloo, but failed on affordable, family housing, says Doucet, calling the experience a “lesson” for Hamilton.

Mayor Fred Eisenbeger says the city will include provisions for affordability, through such tools as inclusionary zoning, along the future Main-King-Queenston LRT corridor.

But an affordability requirement wasn’t part of the negotiations that led to the HUPEG deal, he said.

“I think we’d like to encourage that, but we can’t always set standards to make it mandatory because they certainly may diminish the investments that they’re prepared to make.”

Outside the Salvation Army, Phil Reape has more immediate concerns, like finding a place to live.

“It was nuts,” he recalls of his ordeal in the bone-chilling cold, rubbing his frostbitten fingers with his thumb.

Not too long ago, he couldn’t have imagined this, Reape says.

Before his life fell apart during a divorce, he worked in IT, had a house. He has kids.

“I ran out of money and I was on the street.”

Reape considers the idea of an entertainment district sweeping up the core, including where the shelter sits.

“We’re not a suit-and-tie town,” Reape offers. “We’re never going to be like that, so I don’t know what they’re expecting.”

But if the Salvation Army ever pulls up its York Boulevard stakes, something will have to replace it.

“Like you could add two more and ... they’re still going to have a homeless problem.”
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  #542  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 9:20 PM
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It's probably a fair bet that the Salvation Army's building/land will rise in value to a point they will WANT to move, presuming they can find a space in the central lower city that allows them to take the difference and invest it in their services.
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  #543  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 9:59 PM
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HUPEG shouldn't have said anything. Now they look like the bad guys. Everyone knows they'll move of their own volition, similar to the Philpott church. If they said nothing, they could have looked like goo guys. Hell, donate a bit to the salvation army and get on everyone's good side. Eventually the pressure to move will be too high. Both from a land value perspective, and because mixed use developments will have commercial tenants and residents that complain until they move the shelter. Let them exist until they want to move.
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  #544  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2022, 12:57 AM
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They can still do something like that.

#1 rule in a PR gaffe is to own up to your mistake. #2 is say what will be done to fix the issue. So basically, IMO, help them or another cause related to providing homes for the homeless now, and if/when Sally Ann decides to make a big move, assist them in an honest and open way.
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  #545  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2022, 3:21 PM
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Is there anywhere obvious it can go? Maybe making access to the shelter off of Vine would remove the main issue of shelter inhabitants congregating on York.
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  #546  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2022, 3:54 PM
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Does anyone know how many shelter beds Hamilton has per capita compared to other nearby municipalities like KW, Brantford, Burlington etc?
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  #547  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2022, 4:58 PM
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Hamilton numbers are known, but doubt surrounding areas have any meaningful beds to offer from a shelter perspective.

One thing to consider is during the pandemic the population in this group has increased because of other areas shutting down services that were offered (usually at a bare minimum), people losing housing due to job loss, etc., and that's attracted individuals looking for help and knowing Hamilton has the infrastructure to help, they come here. Even if those services have been minimized relative to pre-COVID, it's still more than other areas (only Toronto supports to the same degree).

Personally I think the province should be funding these services to a higher degree in Hamilton because homeless individuals are "directed here" basically by snooty municipalities, cities and towns in South Western Ontario who don't want such a blight on their accord. In no way am I insulting or marginalizing this situation. The reality is Hamilton/Toronto do the heavy lifting to help and it's still not enough. Housing helps, support systems help, and the infrastructure to help people move forward in society when they've for whatever reason (own volition, system, etc) have fallen into this way of unfortunate life and that's not a cost that's decreasing.
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  #548  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2022, 8:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craftbeerdad View Post
Personally I think the province should be funding these services to a higher degree in Hamilton because homeless individuals are "directed here" basically by snooty municipalities, cities and towns in South Western Ontario who don't want such a blight on their accord. In no way am I insulting or marginalizing this situation. The reality is Hamilton/Toronto do the heavy lifting to help and it's still not enough. Housing helps, support systems help, and the infrastructure to help people move forward in society when they've for whatever reason (own volition, system, etc) have fallen into this way of unfortunate life and that's not a cost that's decreasing.
Social assistance never should have been left to the municipalities to figure out. But it's interesting that no government since that downloading has taken them back -- there have been provincial handouts to assist cities hit harder with those costs, but that's only been a band-aid solution.
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  #549  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2022, 1:17 PM
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No ‘deep, dark secret’ in downtown Hamilton venues deal: Mayor Fred Eisenberger
(Hamilton Spectator, Teviah Moro, Mar 26 2022)

A private consortium the city has tapped to refurbish and operate Hamilton’s downtown entertainment venues will not pay property taxes.

That tax status is a term of the confidential master agreement the city struck with the group last year.

The exemption is allowed under provincial legislation, but the deal’s decades-long confidentiality provision invites suspicion, Coun. Brad Clark says.

“We’re wide open to accusations from the public that these are sweetheart deals and all of the other allegations.”

Last July, council approved a lease agreement — for a guaranteed 30 years and as long as 49 — with the Hamilton Urban Precinct Entertainment Group (HUPEG) to renovate and operate the arena, convention centre and concert hall.

City officials celebrated the deal as a way to save taxpayers $155 million in operating and capital costs over 30 years.

In exchange for investing tens of millions into revamping the city-owned venues, the consortium also picks up three municipal properties.

They include the York Boulevard parkade, a parking lot behind it on Vine Street and another parcel at York and Caroline Street North. A long-term, incremental tax break is also tied to the development of those parcels.

HUPEG — which includes the Carmen’s Group, labour union LIUNA, Meridian Credit Union and Paletta Group — aims to build mixed-use residential highrises and spur the creation of shops and eateries in a rejuvenated corridor.

On Wednesday, city staff told councillors the deal’s master agreement would remain confidential for the life of the lease.

“So theoretically, this could be an existing relationship forever and the public never gets to see what the agreement is,” Clark said.


Read it in full here.
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  #550  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2022, 8:19 PM
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The lack of transparency is unfortunate, but getting the city out is for the best.
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  #551  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2022, 5:05 PM
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U.S. venue group OVG heads up Hamilton arena renovation in first Canadian project

ANGELA KRYHUL GLOBE AND MAIL PUBLISHED JUNE 14, 2022

When Los Angeles-based Oak View Group (OVG), a global sports and entertainment company, went looking for its first arena project north of the border, it found its sweet spot in Hamilton.

FirstOntario Centre (formerly Copps Coliseum) may have witnessed Canada’s 1987 Canada Cup victory against the Soviet Union, but the aging venue will soon be torn back to the studs and brought up to 21st-century standards as part of the City of Hamilton’s vision for a new multimillion-dollar sports, entertainment and cultural district.

The privately funded downtown project is driven by the Hamilton Urban Precinct Entertainment Group LP (HUPEG), a regional consortium led by Carmen’s Group and the Mercanti Family and Associates working in collaboration with venue operators, industry consultants and development partners, including Laborers’ International Union of North America (LIUNA), Meridian Credit Union and Paletta International.
OVG, which recently launched its Canadian division in Toronto, was brought in for its sports venue expertise and entertainment industry connections; the renovated building will serve Hamilton’s hometown teams as well as visiting big-name acts.

OVG is making headlines for its arena projects in the U.S. and Europe. Founded in 2015 by Tim Leiweke, former president and chief executive officer of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, and entertainment industry trailblazer Irving Azoff, the company just announced a new US$3-billion arena-casino-hotel-amphitheatre development in Las Vegas; it recently completed the Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle and the UBS Arena in Belmont, N.Y.; and Manchester’s Co-op Live, at 23,500 seats, will become the largest indoor arena and live-music venue in Britain.

Stephen Collins, OVG’s president, global venue development and special projects, says some of the innovations built into the company’s other arena projects will be tailored to FirstOntario Centre. “None [of our projects] looks like they were produced by the same developer,” he says. “They all have unique elements that are appropriate for their markets.”

With construction work set to begin in late spring 2023, FirstOntario Centre will get a new exterior façade and video board and will better integrate at street level, along York Boulevard and Bay Street, with a year-round sports lounge, e-sports zone and local restaurants.

The overall redevelopment plan aims for a live-work-play experience similar to Toronto’s Distillery District and Maple Leaf Square (aka Jurassic Park), Edmonton’s Ice District and L.A. Live in Los Angeles, says Jasper Kujavsky, director of the arena renovation project and a HUPEG founding partner.

The arena has “good bones,” Mr. Kujavsky says, and is situated close to downtown hotels, restaurants, shops and public transit, including the future Light Rail Transit system. While the venue is currently home to the Hamilton Bulldogs (Ontario Hockey League), Hamilton Honey Badgers (Canadian Elite Basketball League) and the Toronto Rock (National Lacrosse League), the renovation will give it a better shot at hosting additional sporting events such as the Canadian Hockey League’s Memorial Cup, he says.

The three teams have not yet announced where they will temporarily relocate to during the renovation, Mr. Kujavsky says.

Inside the venue, with seating remaining at about 17,500, there will be expanded concourses, comprehensive transformation of the lower bowl, more comfortable seating and better sightlines. A flexible curtaining system will block off the upper-bowl balcony when not in use to help create a more intimate attendee experience in the lower bowl.

The venue’s locker rooms will be modernized with on-site training facilities and social spaces where athletes can unwind, and the roof structure will be reinforced to handle a modern scoreboard as well as rigging for concerts and shows.

The renovation will convert about 80,000 square feet of storage space to restaurants, suites and club areas. “That will change the dynamic of the building,” Mr. Kujavsky says.

“We can open up that space and provide a greater experience and help drive more revenue for the building and the community,” Mr. Collins adds.

Part of the plan is a sort of democratization of the venue’s social spaces, he says: “We come from the mindset that we need to provide something for everyone so there aren’t the haves and the have-nots. There are different opportunities for different areas of the building.”

OVG-designed venues offer traditional executive suites as well as theatre-style seating adjacent to club spaces for those who require only a few seats to entertain clients.

The luxury box as a driver of revenue is a significant development in modern sport venue design, notes Peter Sealy, assistant professor at University of Toronto’s John H. Daniels Faculty of Architecture, Landscape and Design – fast WiFi, the latest big-screen technology, sophisticated sound and light equipment, and streetscape integration are all must-haves these days.

“Revenue from luxury boxes plays a huge role in the overall financial picture,” he says.

OVG’s arena projects have veered away from traditional food and beverage concession stands toward innovations such as Amazon’s Just Walk Out technology, which is in Seattle’s Climate Pledge Arena and New York’s UBS Arena.

A customer’s scanned credit card is automatically charged when they take food and beverages off the shelves, eliminating checkout lineups. OVG is also looking at a marketplace concept for FirstOntario Centre that’s similar to the grocery store self-checkout experience, Mr. Collins adds.

With Hamilton as its Canadian entry point, OVG is interested in communities that wish to revitalize their sports and entertainment offerings or are underserved by their current venues, Mr. Collins says.

As for size, OVG’s sweet spot is typically just over 20,000 seats. “We try to stay in that ballpark because that’s what we feel we do best,” Mr. Collins says. “Our strategic relationships with content providers scale to that size and the economics work better for us.”

Hamilton’s new sports, entertainment and cultural district by the numbers
  • The $500-million residential-office-retail development will include 5 per cent affordable housing.
  • HUPEG is responsible for the operation and maintenance of FirstOntario Centre, the FirstOntario Concert Hall and the Hamilton Convention Centre for 49 years, with no monetary contribution from the city and with the city retaining ownership of the lands and facilities.
  • $12.5-million-plus in upgrades will be applied to the existing Hamilton Convention Centre and Concert Hall.
  • A one-time contribution of $2-million will be made to the Art Gallery of Hamilton.
  • Savings to taxpayers: $155-million over 30 years, according to a 2019 study by Ernst and Young.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...eid=914e0b1e91
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  #552  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2022, 5:32 PM
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Great news!

Has Michael Andlauer ever confirmed he supports FirstOntario renovation? With the Bulldogs at the Memorial Cup, you'd think he would say something about the future of the Bulldogs.
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  #553  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2022, 1:18 PM
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More expensive reno? Who could have figured.

It is troubling that this group has not kept its tenants informed. Is this the way they will handle their other operations and plans?


FirstOntario Centre renos now expected to begin next summer
But main users say they haven’t heard from Hamilton Urban Precinct Entertainment Group, the group in charge, in months


https://www.thespec.com/sports/opini...mmer-2023.html

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%...mmer-2023.html

When the city agreed to let the Hamilton Urban Precinct Entertainment Group renovate FirstOntario Centre just over a year ago — as part of a larger downtown facilities rehabilitation project — it said work on the building was to begin in the fall of 2022. As in a couple months from now.

Is that still happening?

“It’s going to be after the end of this coming sports season,” says HUPEG partner and director of the arena project Jasper Kujavsky.

In other words, no. The new plan would push the start of construction to next June or July after the Hamilton Bulldogs and Toronto Rock finish their seasons. Less disruption to them, that way.

There are a number of other reasons for the later time frame, too. A big one is the scale of what they’re planning to do has double or tripled in size since former Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment boss Tim Leiweke and his Oak View Group got involved. Instead of $50 million or so, it’s now going to be somewhere between $100 million and $200 million. A bigger project takes more time to arrange. The promise is that this will be spectacular.

Just one small problem. The main users of the building don’t seem to know what’s going on.

Bulldogs owner Michael Andlauer says he hasn’t heard from the consortium with an update for nine months. Which leaves him uncertain about the future of the arena or what he should be doing to prepare for a temporary relocation.

“It’s pretty hard to plan when you have no idea what’s going on,” he says. “And I don’t think anybody does, for that matter.”

He says he doesn’t even know if the city has signed off on the plans yet (They haven’t. Kujavsky says HUPEG will likely be going for approvals sometime around February).

Mike Morreale is commissioner of the Canadian Elite Basketball League whose Hamilton Honey Badgers play at FirstOntario Centre. When was he last time he had a conversation with HUPEG?

“It’s got to be at least a year ago,” he says.

And the owner of the Rock? He says he gets some information but does he know what’s going on with the renovations and plans and timing of stuff?

“Not exactly,” Jamie Dawick says.

...
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  #554  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2022, 6:36 PM
interr0bangr interr0bangr is offline
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I know the owners are planning some new initiatives (website, etc) that will help provide a more reliable source of news and updates. That said, they still have to keep their tenants in the loop better.

The intention is there, but there's too many cooks in the kitchen and too many big picture ideas without a solid plan to execute, which is likely why it's so hard to solidify and communicate them.
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  #555  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 12:35 AM
mikevbar1 mikevbar1 is offline
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I mean, it is a hodgepodge of developer landowners, a venue builder and who knows who else behind the scenes. Do we even know how large the “entertainment precinct” is? The city was hush-hush about it, which is basically unheard of anywhere but I digress. What we’re all interested in is the scope of the project, and frankly I don’t feel like we know it- $500 million is just a price tag, not a product. The stadium alone is like 1/5 of that cost. Not to get into fantasy territory, but whatever is going on here must be truly massive to be covered up all the way to the point of financing and approval. I would like to at least know the blocks the various developments will occupy, since clearly a proper site plan or even a digital brochure is too much to ask for.
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  #556  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 12:49 PM
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Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is offline
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The discussion right now seems to be mostly focused on the Arena renovation for now, I don't think they've fleshed out the actual development plans too much.

The company handling the arena renovation, OVG, is quite reputable, so I'm confident the renovation will likely be quite well done.

Paletta and LiUNA will likely lead the development portion, but unfortunately Paletta doesn't seem to move quickly on their other projects. Hopefully LiUNA leads the project instead, but they typically pair with Fengate, so we'll have to see how the development works out.
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  #557  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2022, 4:32 PM
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As mentioned before OVG is quite reputable (see my post a few pages back). Whether or not this becomes a clusterfudge and OVG walks away would be my only concern. Their work on Climate Pledge and UBS Arena is very impressive and would make Copps state of the art. Just hope this happens. This is a game changer for the city.
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  #558  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2022, 5:57 PM
BCTed BCTed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craftbeerdad View Post
As mentioned before OVG is quite reputable (see my post a few pages back). Whether or not this becomes a clusterfudge and OVG walks away would be my only concern. Their work on Climate Pledge and UBS Arena is very impressive and would make Copps state of the art. Just hope this happens. This is a game changer for the city.
Both of those projects were over $1.1 billion US. I am actually happy to hear that the FirstOntario renovations will be more than $50 million, but I am wondering if they will be limited in what they can do and/or if they will be able to find the money to do the project justice.
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  #559  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2022, 6:09 PM
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Obviously OVG isn't sinking the kind of money into Copps that they spent on Climate Pledge and UBS, but it's a much smaller arena with a smaller market to serve, so it shouldn't be a surprise.

That said, I fully expect the arena to be pretty extensively renovated.
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  #560  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2022, 7:06 PM
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Yes those are state of the art arenas and serving a larger demographic than Hamilton but I could see the all in number for the arena between $200-400M (high end estimate) by the time the renovations are completed. Luckily Copps was designed with the idea of future upgrades/renovations in mind, so hopefully that will keep a lid on costs. There's not a chance this costs less $100M to execute.
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