Arizona Education News and Discussion Thread

[HooverDam]

^I think its a combination of a couple of things. Phoenix sadly lacks any wealthy philanthropists that would found such a school. The ones we've had historically did nice things like the Heards but even they were only part time residents. Theres no Vanderbuilt, Carnegie, etc. of Phoenix, thus no one to found a school.

Secondly since the Salt River Valley was so sparsely populated in the days (pre great depressing) when people were founding great universities, no one bothered to found one here. I imagine trying to start one now would have ridiculously prohibitive costs.

Also Im not sure if theres anyway to prove this but it seems like modern philanthropists just have different priorities. The industrialists era guys built universities, libraries and museums. Today billionaires give money to foundations, over seas aid, medical research, etc. Not that one is superior to the other, but the latter seems more in vogue today for whatever reason. Perhaps because people feel like the more infrastructure type things have already been covered.

[BTinSF]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

when people were founding great universities, no one bothered to found one here. I imagine trying to start one now would have ridiculously prohibitive costs.

Hardly prohibitive. CA recently founded UC Merced. In 2004 "the Arizona Board of Regents (ABOR) approved a memorandum of understanding between ASU and the University of Arizona (UA) to create the Phoenix Biomedical Campus of the Arizona University System" (Source: http://www.asu.edu/news/research/bio...onf_082704.htm ). This amounts to starting a new medical school even though they are apparently going to glom onto the existing one at U of AZ (saves having to try to get a new accreditation I imagine). And starting a new med school is a lot harder than starting a new law school because of the need to have clinical facilities (i.e. a teaching HOSPITAL).

[combusean]

This "Colleges at ASU" concept is so stupid and won't fly in today's economy if ASU expect cities to foot the bill. The 2006 bond passage that funded ASU downtown was a sheer product of the boom, one of the lasting impressions of such irrational exhuberance. To think Phoenix could pull off such a huge investment yet again to expand the campus beyond its current scope is all but out of the question. Goodyear is obviously in the same boat.

Just let the community colleges offer 4 year degrees already!

[TAZ4ate0]

Originally Posted by combusean

Just let the community colleges offer 4 year degrees already!

Yep. I agree. There was serious talk of that some time ago. Don't know what happened to that plan.

Although, I think not all of the community colleges in Maricopa county should be converted into 4 year schools. Just a few of them. Good candidates would be GCC, SCC, and MCC. Estrella Mountain CC might be a good choice too.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by combusean

This "Colleges at ASU" concept is so stupid and won't fly in today's economy if ASU expect cities to foot the bill. The 2006 bond passage that funded ASU downtown was a sheer product of the boom, one of the lasting impressions of such irrational exhuberance. To think Phoenix could pull off such a huge investment yet again to expand the campus beyond its current scope is all but out of the question. Goodyear is obviously in the same boat.

Just let the community colleges offer 4 year degrees already!

Im not against some of the CCs maybe offering 4 year degrees of graduating one or two of them (GCC and MCC probably) into 4 year state schools, but I think its silly to totally dismiss the Colleges at ASU plan.

Both the Goodyear Mayor and West Valley businessmen seem to think it can work, and I'd assume/hope they know more about the finances of Goodyear than you or I. Goodyears sales tax numbers are still pretty average compared to other Valley cities, they could perhaps do another slight raise there to help cover costs for the college (which would pay off in the long run) or find some other ways to cover the costs.

I find it interesting that Lake Havasu City and Snowflake have expressed interest. If it costs at least $35M to start a campus for 5K students I wonder how those smaller cities would be able to afford it. I guess Lake Havasu City is about the same size as Goodyear but I doubt its growing as fast, nor is it connected to a major metro like Goodyear. The Goodyear campus would obviously draw students from around the S.W. Valley. It seems like Yuma, Prescott, or suburban Valley cities would maybe be better fits than Snowflake.

Anyway, Ive got major respect for this Goodyear mayor. He seems to be working hard to make sure his city isn't just another forgettable blob like so many other Valley suburbs. Between their well thought out plans for their future Downtown, attracting the two Ohio teams for spring training and bringing in Higher Education with Franklin Pierce and ASU the guy at the very least seems to have a vision.

[trigirdbers]

Damn, I know that this thread has been dead for a while but I just want to say how much it PISSES THE FUCK out of me that I have to go to law school out of state in order to get a good job IN ARIZONA. Its like the state is doing everything it can to ensure that I end up elsewhere. This is just idiotic.

[combusean]

Since this is revived ... what is the problem with letting the CC's all offer four year degrees or at least having some arbitrary specialization almost like it exists now...eg, the EMT program at MCC is actually competitive. No love for my alma mater Phoenix College even?

There should be at least two places to get a 4 year degree in the Maricopa system alone in fields they currently offer.

[phxbyrd]

I'm not sure why you feel you HAVE to go to law school out of state. One of the few good things you can say about AZ higher ed is that is has 2 good law schools, 3 good business schools (Thunderbird rocks) and a good medical school (could one become 2). If what you are saying is that it would be nice to have some more less selective schools like California Western, then you are right.

[trigirdbers]

^ Lulz, I am saying quite the opposite. Its too easy to start a law school but very very difficult to acquire the faculty needed for a truely uselful one. Have you looked at the placement stats out of ASU Law, they are abysmal. I know several recent graduates who are funemployed and many more who are working for penuts. Basicaly, the good jobs go to the top 5% at ASU and the top 10% at U of A (I don't know anything about Phoenix College of Law but I immagine that things are even worse there). This was true even in a good economy. I wish U of A was more like Texas, Michigan, or Virginia and could provide a reasonable chance of employment upon graduation. This is why I am saying that I have to go to law school out of state in order to have a reasonable prospect of getting hired by a firm here.

I think that the only law school started recently that was even OK was UC Irvine's and thats just because they have buckets and buckets of money to pay good students to attend and faculty to teach there.

[vertex]

^^^I'd love to see Don's take on this post.

[mwadswor]

Originally Posted by trigirdbers

^ Lulz, I am saying quite the opposite. Its too easy to start a law school but very very difficult to acquire the faculty needed for a truely uselful one. Have you looked at the placement stats out of ASU Law, they are abysmal. I know several recent graduates who are funemployed and many more who are working for penuts. Basicaly, the good jobs go to the top 5% at ASU and the top 10% at U of A (I don't know anything about Phoenix College of Law but I immagine that things are even worse there). This was true even in a good economy. I wish U of A was more like Texas, Michigan, or Virginia and could provide a reasonable chance of employment upon graduation. This is why I am saying that I have to go to law school out of state in order to have a reasonable prospect of getting hired by a firm here.

I think that the only law school started recently that was even OK was UC Irvine's and thats just because they have buckets and buckets of money to pay good students to attend and faculty to teach there.

Where are you getting this from? According to ASU's website:

99% placement rate nine months after graduation
Average starting salary:
Public sector: $54,000
Private sector: $100,000

source: http://www.law.asu.edu/?id=505

6 figure starting salary in Phoenix sounds pretty good to me... especially since it's relatively cheap and they offer incredible scholarships if you're half way qualified (no massive loans = no need to work 80 hours a week just to make loan payments). Forget law school, what career in Phoenix has a 6 figure average starting salary? Remember that stats at other schools will be inflated by the fact that average salaries are higher in general in most other big cities.

[mwadswor]

A more specific breakdown of ASU Law class of 2008, 12 months after graduation:

Type of Employment
Private Practice 53%
Government 17%
Judicial Clerkships 7%
Business 10%
Public Interest 9%
Academic 3%

Employment Location
Employed in state 73%
Employed out of state 27%


Average Salaries
All Graduates $77,500
Private Sector $100,000
Public Sector $54,000

[Festus]

Thanks for the info.

[phxSUNSfan]

Originally Posted by azcats

ASU is NOT building a med school in downtown Phoenix. The UofA is.

I don't think anyone on this site confused UA's new med school downtown for an ASU venture. However, there has been talk of a future ASU School of Medicine in partnership with Mayo; perhaps someone mentioned the downtown Bio Med Campus as an ideal location for it?

Thanks for taking the time to call RED and getting some answers; the apartment question has been brought before but no one was quite sure if it was more than a rumor. I think most on this site are cynical about the apartments atop Palomar due to numerous projects downtown that have been shelved or canceled over the years...not to mention the consistent scaling back of CityScape's footprint and height.

[Tempe_Duck]

Originally Posted by phxSUNSfan

I don't think anyone on this site confused UA's new med school downtown for an ASU venture. However, there has been talk of a future ASU School of Medicine in partnership with Mayo; perhaps someone mentioned the downtown Bio Med Campus as an ideal location for it?

What is this ASU/Mayo partnership you are talking about? This is the first I have heard about it.

[phxSUNSfan]

^
http://asunews.asu.edu/20110214_mayocollaboration

[westbev93]

Maybe I missed it, but what in that article leads you to believe that ASU is building a med school? Why would Mayo team up to build a med school at ASU? Unless something big happened that I completely missed, Mayo already has its own med school in Rochester. Further, that article talks about ASU moving departments to Mayo's facilities in Scottsdale. I'd imagine that if they did put a med school here that was a partnership between ASU and Mayo, it would be located at Mayo. They already have the hospital, space to build more facilities, and apparently Mayo is taking ASU's existing programs into its facilities up north.

[phxSUNSfan]

Originally Posted by westbev93

Maybe I missed it, but what in that article leads you to believe that ASU is building a med school? Why would Mayo team up to build a med school at ASU? Unless something big happened that I completely missed, Mayo already has its own med school in Rochester. Further, that article talks about ASU moving departments to Mayo's facilities in Scottsdale. I'd imagine that if they did put a med school here that was a partnership between ASU and Mayo, it would be located at Mayo. They already have the hospital, space to build more facilities, and apparently Mayo is taking ASU's existing programs into its facilities up north.

Never said they were building, but there has been talk of a future med school with Mayo as the teaching hospital; must I do the research for ya'll all the time?

“It was a choice that Dr. Crow and his administration regrettably had to make in order to provide its primary mission on the colleges and cut a number of investments,” he said. “With respect to the Mayo involvement, I think that’s why a medical school would be a decade away.”
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...07/story1.html

[Tempe_Duck]

Originally Posted by phxSUNSfan

Never said they were building, but there has been talk of a future med school with Mayo as the teaching hospital; must I do the research for ya'll all the time?

“It was a choice that Dr. Crow and his administration regrettably had to make in order to provide its primary mission on the colleges and cut a number of investments,” he said. “With respect to the Mayo involvement, I think that’s why a medical school would be a decade away.”
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...07/story1.html

Great news if it does happen. I need to improve my googleing skills, i looked for some stuff but missed those two article.s

[phxSUNSfan]

Originally Posted by Tempe_Duck

Great news if it does happen. I need to improve my googleing skills, i looked for some stuff but missed those two article.s

Here is more news about the talks that are ongoing concerning a new ASU Med School, this is from today:

"ASU and Mayo have worked on several projects together over the past eight years, and are in early talks about the possibility of developing a joint medical school, according to John Noseworthy, president and CEO of Mayo Clinic."
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...s-to-mayo.html

Despite this thread being for CityScape, this is important news and it will no doubt be aggressively pursued for the downtown campus which would be good for business at CityScape. As of now there isn't enough reason nor momentum to create a thread for "ASU Med School."