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  #21  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 5:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kisai View Post
Global News had an news item on this.

My view on this, is that it's smoke and mirrors.

There is no over-supply. There is no shortage. All Condos and Apartments need at least 1 parking space. Retired seniors do not have, or need two vehicles, but families might. So it's not up to the city to decide how much parking is necessary, and I certainly would throw any developer out who proposes a building design with less than 1 parking spot per unit.

The ideal situation is that each unit in a tower would have "2 parking spaces" and if a parking space is not needed, they can convert that space into a parkade "storage unit", and the storage unit trailer must be movable.

As it is, you can not fit anything like an RV in a parking garage. The one time I parked a moving van (not a cube van) in the underground parking garage at the condo I rented, the van barely cleared the gate, and it struck something that was hanging from the underground garage's ceiling.

If anything, each parking space should have a 30A outlet to use the car's own charging equipment, and the building should have 6 DC fast-charger spaces that anyone in the building (guests, and delivery vehicles included) can use. That enables the option of ride-sharing vehicles to be shared or rented.
My preferred system is when the Strata rents out stalls to Owners. Then you have a shared supply where the price is raised/lowered so that limited supply is not an issue with the money going to benefit all Owners. That way if you suddenly go from 1 car to 2 or vice-versa your not needlessly inconvenienced.
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  #22  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 6:27 PM
TheTerminalCity TheTerminalCity is offline
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Originally Posted by EastVanMark View Post
Another BS agenda driven "study." All an agenda to further the war on car use.
The study has so many holes in it you can drive a truck through them. (but then sadly, no place left to park your truck)
Could you reference a hole or two? I'm curious to do some of my own reading
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  #23  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 8:02 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Except apartment owners have been jacking up prices for parking, as there is no government cap on the yearly increase on those rates, as opposed to the rate on the apartment.

This shouldn't be a surprise, people who buy condos probably have more access to fudns and can afford to keep a car. The average renter may not have that leverage, so if you live n the city the car goes.
Have they? I've been renting a parking spot in Yaletown in a residential condo for around 10 years. The price has hardly changed.
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  #24  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 8:03 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
My preferred system is when the Strata rents out stalls to Owners. Then you have a shared supply where the price is raised/lowered so that limited supply is not an issue with the money going to benefit all Owners. That way if you suddenly go from 1 car to 2 or vice-versa your not needlessly inconvenienced.
That would make a lot of sense. Particularly as we transition to EVs, the strata can install charging in certain stalls and rent those for more, managing that demand, etc.
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  #25  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 8:06 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Have they? I've been renting a parking spot in Yaletown in a residential condo for around 10 years. The price has hardly changed.
I was referring to purpose-built apartments that are professionally managed. I had a friend who had the bill go up by $100 a month for parking!
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  #26  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 8:29 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
I was referring to purpose-built apartments that are professionally managed. I had a friend who had the bill go up by $100 a month for parking!
In downtown thats pretty cheap. Even on Broadway I wouldn't blink. Downtown stalls can go for over $200/month depending on location.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 9:43 PM
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For condos, if you force rental of spaces, then you get into the Oakridge situation.
The whole reason people buy (vs rent) a condo is for the security of owning an asset and the flexibility that comes with it.
If you force people to rent a parking space you're removing that advantage and nickel and diming someone who would otherwise own a parking space as a sunk cost with the initial condo purchase).
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  #28  
Old Posted May 2, 2019, 10:44 PM
EastVanMark EastVanMark is offline
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Originally Posted by TheTerminalCity View Post
Could you reference a hole or two? I'm curious to do some of my own reading
How did you gather data? They claim to have come at night. How many times did you come? are you just observing randomly or are you coming back to each site on a nightly basis? And most importantly, how many of these condos are empty? Remember that little problem? I'm guessing if a condo is empty, they aint using their parking space either If it was a voluntary survey questioning your parking situation, a vacant condo is not going to respond to it.

And how about people who park on the street? Did it count those people, or does that still technically count as someone who doesn't use their assigned spot in a parkade?

The study is done by someone who operates a transit system.-No self-interest there or anything. In other news, foxes put out a study whereby they found they don't actually want to hurt chickens, rather it is all a big misunderstanding.

The "study" consisted of things like a a street parking survey, and 1,500 voluntary household surveys.-Where were these surveys taken? Downtown; where most people living without an automobile reside? That's hardly representative of the entire city or even worse, the region. How were the questions worded?

Is it the same how the did the even more laughable "mode share" survey when if a person takes their dog out for a poop 5 feet outside the front door they count that as a pedestrian trip on foot and therefore conclude that 75% of people walk instead of driving etc etc
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  #29  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 4:06 AM
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I knows what I knows! Don't need no stinkin' experts and their data, or facts, or all y'all from all over the city...

Seriously, a professional study like this is already adjusted for almost every possible sampling error. Unless you've seen an actual flaw in the text regarding their methodology or conclusions, kindly leave the truthiness to the MAGA crowd.
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  #30  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by EastVanMark View Post
How did you gather data? They claim to have come at night. How many times did you come? are you just observing randomly or are you coming back to each site on a nightly basis? And most importantly, how many of these condos are empty? Remember that little problem? I'm guessing if a condo is empty, they aint using their parking space either If it was a voluntary survey questioning your parking situation, a vacant condo is not going to respond to it.

And how about people who park on the street? Did it count those people, or does that still technically count as someone who doesn't use their assigned spot in a parkade?

The study is done by someone who operates a transit system.-No self-interest there or anything. In other news, foxes put out a study whereby they found they don't actually want to hurt chickens, rather it is all a big misunderstanding.

The "study" consisted of things like a a street parking survey, and 1,500 voluntary household surveys.-Where were these surveys taken? Downtown; where most people living without an automobile reside? That's hardly representative of the entire city or even worse, the region. How were the questions worded?

Is it the same how the did the even more laughable "mode share" survey when if a person takes their dog out for a poop 5 feet outside the front door they count that as a pedestrian trip on foot and therefore conclude that 75% of people walk instead of driving etc etc
You can actually go read the Technical Report yourself to answer these questions. Most of your questions are incredibly leading, and most of your statements are wrong.

Like this part:

Quote:
The "study" consisted of things like a a street parking survey, and 1,500 voluntary household surveys.-Where were these surveys taken? Downtown; where most people living without an automobile reside? That's hardly representative of the entire city or even worse, the region. How were the questions worded?
There were 1567 completed household survey results from around Metro Vancouver, of which only 368 were in Vancouver (Coquitlam, having about 20% of the population of Vancouver, had 147 responses, so you could argue it was overrepresented, for example). The report gives a good breakdown of vehicles per household; for example, in 1 person households there was an average of 0.88 vehicles per household, 2 persons was 1.36, 3 persons was 1.49, and 4+ persons was also 1.49.

The households to which the surveys were sent were the same ones that were in the buildings being studied, which were selected based on several criteria: representation from across the region, building age, building tenure (rental vs owner), and proximity to the FTN.

If you want to go to the report and come back with some better criticisms, feel free, but as it is your objections look like they're based on some extremely cursory summary presented in a news story instead of being based on the actual report and study methodologies.
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  #31  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 6:19 PM
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I have to call BS on that study, from direct experience. I live in a 5-10 year old condo building purposely-undersupplied with parking, and the number of "parking wanted" posters on the building billboard is significant. For certain market sectors, parking is an considered absolute necessity; this report is the result of total urbanist zealotry.
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  #32  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 6:28 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by s211 View Post
I have to call BS on that study, from direct experience. I live in a 5-10 year old condo building purposely-undersupplied with parking, and the number of "parking wanted" posters on the building billboard is significant. For certain market sectors, parking is an considered absolute necessity; this report is the result of total urbanist zealotry.
Your anecdotes aren't relevant to the overall situation.
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  #33  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 6:32 PM
EastVanMark EastVanMark is offline
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Originally Posted by CanSpice View Post
You can actually go read the Technical Report yourself to answer these questions. Most of your questions are incredibly leading, and most of your statements are wrong.

Like this part:



There were 1567 completed household survey results from around Metro Vancouver, of which only 368 were in Vancouver (Coquitlam, having about 20% of the population of Vancouver, had 147 responses, so you could argue it was overrepresented, for example). The report gives a good breakdown of vehicles per household; for example, in 1 person households there was an average of 0.88 vehicles per household, 2 persons was 1.36, 3 persons was 1.49, and 4+ persons was also 1.49.

The households to which the surveys were sent were the same ones that were in the buildings being studied, which were selected based on several criteria: representation from across the region, building age, building tenure (rental vs owner), and proximity to the FTN.

If you want to go to the report and come back with some better criticisms, feel free, but as it is your objections look like they're based on some extremely cursory summary presented in a news story instead of being based on the actual report and study methodologies.
Thanks for including the report. Was definitely better than just grabbing tidbits from news reports (which you are correct, is exactly what I did).

Don't really see how my questions are "leading". They are just questions that should be addressed if you want what you are claiming to be taken at face value. And what statements are wrong? Please clarify and avoid blanket, vague statements.

Concerns right off the bat is the study is being conducted (at least in part) by a group that has a rooting interest in its findings. That's a concern right off the hop. The "partner" in this initiative is is also troubling. Their is no reason why you couldn't use a more non-partisan survey partner, not one who has a potential financial stake in its this sector. Big no-no.

Secondly, as pointed out previously, the respondents of these types of surveys usually skew in one direction. Just like some of the city surveys regarding development applications, the vast majority that actually take the time to participate, have a negative view of the proposal. This situation only begins to straighten out when you knock on each persons door individually. That way a person almost has to go out of their way not to participate, and the feedback is usually quite different than what you would find in an opt-in format.

For the question "where do your visitors park," the sub points are silly. Do they park close to the building in a paid spot or not? Seriously? Who keeps accurate parking logs for each person who visits their condo. What do you do when you have a party? Have a sign in sheet where everyone can provide details on where they parked? Secondly, there is no option for "I don't know where my visitors park"

The parking survey also has issues as there is no way to accurately measure occupancy. Something as simple as working the afternoon shift at a job could potentially trigger an "unoccupied" designation. Conversely, a resident who knows a stall next to them is unoccupied for a long time can use it for visitor parking and it would appear the stall is being used even if it really isn't.
Anyone who has lived in an apartment building will know that stall use can fluctuate wildly from week to week and even day to day.

On the bright side, I do see they accounted for empty suites using sound parameters to identify them, so the criticism of them not accounting for those is unfounded.

Finally, they use one solitary guy from UCLA who wrote a book once saying that street parking utilization was considered ‘high’ when utilization is at least 85 percent.

So less than 85% of usage is considered, "low?" So if 8 out of 10 parking spots are occupied, that is considered underused? Wow. So in other words, unless the area has Manhattanesque street parking occupancy, its low.
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  #34  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 7:13 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Your anecdotes aren't relevant to the overall situation.
Do tell, otherwise cherry-picking data to support a predetermined survey result is suggested.
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  #35  
Old Posted May 3, 2019, 7:55 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by s211 View Post
Do tell, otherwise cherry-picking data to support a predetermined survey result is suggested.
Tell what? I own in a 20 year old building and there's always a spot or two for rent, the parkade looks half empty, and rates (I rent out a spot) haven't changed in 10+ years.

I own in another newer building and there's the odd person looking for a spot, or renting one, but that's it. The parkade looks more full, but I wouldn't say we have any kind of shortage.

Since my sample size is twice yours, I'm sure it's more accurate.
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  #36  
Old Posted May 4, 2019, 5:37 PM
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Originally Posted by EastVanMark View Post
Thanks for including the report. Was definitely better than just grabbing tidbits from news reports (which you are correct, is exactly what I did).

Don't really see how my questions are "leading". They are just questions that should be addressed if you want what you are claiming to be taken at face value. And what statements are wrong? Please clarify and avoid blanket, vague statements.

Concerns right off the bat is the study is being conducted (at least in part) by a group that has a rooting interest in its findings. That's a concern right off the hop. The "partner" in this initiative is is also troubling. Their is no reason why you couldn't use a more non-partisan survey partner, not one who has a potential financial stake in its this sector. Big no-no.


Secondly, as pointed out previously, the respondents of these types of surveys usually skew in one direction. Just like some of the city surveys regarding development applications, the vast majority that actually take the time to participate, have a negative view of the proposal. This situation only begins to straighten out when you knock on each persons door individually. That way a person almost has to go out of their way not to participate, and the feedback is usually quite different than what you would find in an opt-in format.

For the question "where do your visitors park," the sub points are silly. Do they park close to the building in a paid spot or not? Seriously? Who keeps accurate parking logs for each person who visits their condo. What do you do when you have a party? Have a sign in sheet where everyone can provide details on where they parked? Secondly, there is no option for "I don't know where my visitors park"

The parking survey also has issues as there is no way to accurately measure occupancy. Something as simple as working the afternoon shift at a job could potentially trigger an "unoccupied" designation. Conversely, a resident who knows a stall next to them is unoccupied for a long time can use it for visitor parking and it would appear the stall is being used even if it really isn't.
Anyone who has lived in an apartment building will know that stall use can fluctuate wildly from week to week and even day to day.

On the bright side, I do see they accounted for empty suites using sound parameters to identify them, so the criticism of them not accounting for those is unfounded.

Finally, they use one solitary guy from UCLA who wrote a book once saying that street parking utilization was considered ‘high’ when utilization is at least 85 percent.

So less than 85% of usage is considered, "low?" So if 8 out of 10 parking spots are occupied, that is considered underused? Wow. So in other words, unless the area has Manhattanesque street parking occupancy, its low.
Translink and Metro Van also operate the road network...
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  #37  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2023, 12:35 AM
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City staff are asking city council to get rid of the minimum parking requirements developers need to build into their projects.

“The elimination of minimum parking requirements recommended in this report is limited to general purpose vehicle parking only. This report does not recommend any changes to the number of required accessible parking, visitor parking, or bicycle parking spaces,” the report reads.

Historically, staff say, minimum off-street parking requirements were designed to ensure all vehicles associated with a building can park on the property without having to rely on street parking. The requirements were lifted in the downtown area in 2019, however, staff note “there are 28 residential and 35 non-residential minimum parking rates remaining in the by-law.”

“While the most commonly used rates reflect vehicle ownership levels fairly well, others have not been reviewed in decades,” staff explain.

The report, set to go before councillors on Wednesday, Nov. 15, says “there are likely to be positive impacts of the regulation change,” based on an evaluation of data since the elimination of parking minimums downtown since 2019.
https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2023/1...ents-proposal/
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  #38  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2023, 1:48 AM
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Moment of truth ABC - are you really pro-deregulation, or just NIMBYs?
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  #39  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2023, 2:50 AM
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The new Provincial Housing zoning changes will make Council's decision irrelevent for many developments Those regulations specify that municipalities across BC can't require parking for additional infill units (suites or infill), or for the 4-plex and 6-plex projects that will be required to be developable once the municipalities have drawn up their new OCP plans (and the Vancouver Plan in that city), or for the higher density developments within 800m of transit stations.

The provincial guidelines still allow municipalities to require accessible parking. I'm not sure it requires any visitor parking.
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  #40  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2023, 3:55 AM
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Recognizing that parking is needed in areas farther from frequent transit, the Province will be putting forward direction around parking, dependent on lot size and proximity to transit. For SSMU projects closer to transit stops with frequent
service, parking minimums will decrease. For projects that are within 400M of these transit stops there will be no minimum parking requirements and parking will be determined by home builders.
https://news.gov.bc.ca/files/Housing...ov_01_2023.pdf
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