Winnipeg | Forks Redevelopment | Parcel 4 - Rail Side Initiative | Proposals

[biguc]

Yeah, active streetwalls all around the actual streets, let the parts at the south end lead into a sneaky little commercial plaza area, then hammer down on residential density going north. When it comes to phase two north of York, a second commercial platz or piaza or whatever up near Shaw Park would probably not go wrong. As it is, I fear all the commercial space will end up residential anyway, then they'll fence the whole thing off to keep thieves out and it'll be a suburb in the city. I hope I'm wrong.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by trueviking

The thing about railside is that it is an island. It isnt plugged in to the city the way an historic city centre like this would typically be.....it will house maybe a thousand people in phase 1, maybe 2500 in full build out. Even if the density was increased by 25%, those numbers are not enough to sustain retail. It will rely heavily on the 5 million people per year who visit the Forks. To me, that is why it is ok to take a risk and attempt to create something not seen before. It has a baked in support that a normal development doesn't have.

The 45 degrees things was a debated issue for sure, but with the rail line setback and uncertainty of the street narrowing, I'm not sure it really changes density all that much. About 100 units per acre is reasonably high density. It definitely changed the street frontage experience and put more focus on the courtyards.

At 2500 people that's about 10k per square kilometer. That's not bad, but half what a presentable European neighbourhood puts up. I have serious misgivings about the destination angle when it's displacing the parking for the existing (like it or not) drive-in destination.

You can't go wrong with self-sustaining.

[esquire]

^ There will still be a fair bit of parking in the area with the parkade. And if FNP builds another parkade like the existing one, it can pretty well offset the loss of spaces due to the Railside development.

[biguc]

That's true. I was thinking they could even dig up their existing lot in the middle of the Market area and build an underground parking level like you see under a lot of Spanish plazas. It's not an intractable problem, and the plan has time to change and adjust as it unfolds. I just worry they'll build a handful of buildings, it won't work, and they'll give up on the whole thing. Worst case scenario, it really harms The Forks Market and they need some bailout before they can adjust. We all know how well that kind of thing goes over.

[buzzg]

It’s important to remember the whole reason why they’re starting with the southern portion only, and drawn out over some time, is so that in case some of these values questions/challenges do come true, they could potentially change course (ie: go higher density) for Railside North.

I also don’t see parking as an issue whatsoever. Aside from NYE, Pride and Canada Day the lots are already half empty or more. There will still be parking and likely more integrated in some buildings. Plus, the plan is to build a large parkade owned by The Forks in the lot north of Union Station. Add in all the potential for new development on Main and general growth, I don’t see retail here being an issue at all.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by buzzg

It’s important to remember the whole reason why they’re starting with the southern portion only, and drawn out over some time, is so that in case some of these values questions/challenges do come true, they could potentially change course (ie: go higher density) for Railside North.

I also don’t see parking as an issue whatsoever. Aside from NYE, Pride and Canada Day the lots are already half empty or more. There will still be parking and likely more integrated in some buildings. Plus, the plan is to build a large parkade owned by The Forks in the lot north of Union Station. Add in all the potential for new development on Main and general growth, I don’t see retail here being an issue at all.

This is a big thing many people seem to either forget or ignore. Much like the dreaded loss of non-existent green space, the dreaded lack of parking will only exist on 2 or 3 days a year, the rest of the year the north lot will more than support the whole place. And the lot to the south right beside the market is apparently not going anywhere either.

In 2045 or whenever they get to the north lot they can look into expanding the parkade or something. A problem for the next generation to deal with.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

This is a big thing many people seem to either forget or ignore. Much like the dreaded loss of non-existent green space, the dreaded lack of parking will only exist on 2 or 3 days a year, the rest of the year the north lot will more than support the whole place. And the lot to the south right beside the market is apparently not going anywhere either.

In 2045 or whenever they get to the north lot they can look into expanding the parkade or something. A problem for the next generation to deal with.

Come on, no one goes to the Forks now because it’s too busy!

[zalf]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

This is a big thing many people seem to either forget or ignore. Much like the dreaded loss of non-existent green space, the dreaded lack of parking will only exist on 2 or 3 days a year, the rest of the year the north lot will more than support the whole place. And the lot to the south right beside the market is apparently not going anywhere either.

In 2045 or whenever they get to the north lot they can look into expanding the parkade or something. A problem for the next generation to deal with.

When I told my mother recently about the Railside plan, she was immediately concerned. "But where will we park?" She hasn't been to the Forks for Canada Day in >10 years.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Come on, no one goes to the Forks now because it’s too busy!

One of my fav Futurama quotes is pretty perfect for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIrl...rryAboutQuotes

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

This is a big thing many people seem to either forget or ignore. Much like the dreaded loss of non-existent green space, the dreaded lack of parking will only exist on 2 or 3 days a year, the rest of the year the north lot will more than support the whole place. And the lot to the south right beside the market is apparently not going anywhere either.

Excellent point. When there's a huge event at The Forks (like Canada Day) a lot of people park off-site anyway, to avoid traffic jams on the way out.

[Eric19]

Here is a picture of the work currently being done on Parcel 4.

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by biguc

I have serious misgivings about the destination angle when it's displacing the parking for the existing (like it or not) drive-in destination. .

If you've actually been to the Forks in the last few years, that's really not an accurate way to describe it outside of Canada Day or a handful of other event days. Those are the only times the parking is even half full. The Forks has managed to become sort of a regional hub for people within walking/biking/skating distance and keeps the Common bustling with them instead of families driving in from wherever to go to Pancake house.

[wags_in_the_peg]

i have a teen working at a Forks eatery this year & I can tell you over the past month, warm weather = packed till 9pm, bad weather = ghost town. I think adding a few hundred residential folks will aid in having more consistent crowds for the eateries.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

If you've actually been to the Forks in the last few years, that's really not an accurate way to describe it outside of Canada Day or a handful of other event days. Those are the only times the parking is even half full. The Forks has managed to become sort of a regional hub for people within walking/biking/skating distance and keeps the Common bustling with them instead of families driving in from wherever to go to Pancake house.

With three kids it's either bike along waterfront or drive for us. No good bus service into the Forks. The last time we went we took the bus and walked from Pioneer. Wasn't too bad, but it's tough to have a day there with young ones after walking a kilometer.

Hopefully this makes the gap feel smaller when walking, the blank walls and surface lot along east Main Street, then the underpass and more parking lots makes it feel a lot longer.

[bomberjet]

A couple points. The Forks is purposely discouraging driving. That is their intent. They will be reducing Izzy Asper from 4 lanes to 2 lanes.

They are relying on people travelling in via other means. Such as transit, with the updated master plan routing.

[1ajs]

forks sure did a nice job in building the demand over the years for it to function

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

With three kids it's either bike along waterfront or drive for us. No good bus service into the Forks. The last time we went we took the bus and walked from Pioneer. Wasn't too bad, but it's tough to have a day there with young ones after walking a kilometer.

Hopefully this makes the gap feel smaller when walking, the blank walls and surface lot along east Main Street, then the underpass and more parking lots makes it feel a lot longer.

Yeah I don't deny that if you live far from the core and have kids driving is by far the easiest way to go to the Forks. But the Forks has/is transitioning away from that model. Suburban families still think the Forks is supposed to revolve around them and their kids visiting twice a year and can't fathom that it's not all about them. Really the forks is pivoting to serve the neighbourhoods close by and is better for it.

[bomberjet]

If people need to drive there's still a parkade for them to use and the existing small lots right at the forks. I don't think I've ever parked out in those gravel lots in all my years of going there.

People can also park elsewhere. If you plan on driving in for Canada Day and need to park on site. That's a bad idea from the start. Park somewhere else, such as St. Boniface, and walk in. That's what people have been doing for decades anyways.

[Biff]

When we drive to the Forks we usually park on the Tache side and walk across the bridge and through the Forks grounds. Very enjoyable.

...in winter though, it's the parkade...we're not super hardy. I as well, have never, every parked in one of those gravel lots.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by Biff

When we drive to the Forks we usually park on the Tache side and walk across the bridge and through the Forks grounds. Very enjoyable.

...in winter though, it's the parkade...we're not super hardy. I as well, have never, every parked in one of those gravel lots.

I think I'll remember this -- sounds like a good idea.

We didn't own a car for the last 7 months, so our bus trip was in the winter... Not fun at all.

The worst part of all of it is the transfer from the bus from the Forks to other services. Navigo recommends getting off at Portage Avenue East and walking to Main and McDermot... Talk about no fun on a windy winter day.

I hope the new Transit Master Plan addresses how difficult The Forks is to get to by bus.