Roundabouts in HRM

[eastcoastal]

I can't, for the life of me, rationalize how these make sense in an urban situation. Sure, they're good for traffic flow... vehicular traffic. That's a goal that I believe is only worthy outside of the peninsula. Focus in almost all of these areas should be less on how to get people through in the fastest manner possible, and more on how to support bicycles, pedestrians, and transit. I just don't see how Ken Reashor's rationalization that they provide more "green space" really makes sense. Is he suggesting that a patch of grass surrounded by fast moving traffic adds to the quality of life? How about my ability to WALK to the North Common?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

There's three new ones I can think of in Nova Scotia; Exit 9 on Hwy 101, Alexandria St (Sydney), and Exit 5A on Hwy 101. All of those are generally on low volume roads.

As it happens, i had to use the thing at exit 5A in Windsor today. I am stumped as to why it needed to be built. There was no issue I can recall with that intersection. It seems a great waste of tax money.

If that is the design that is being touted by the geniuses at TIR, we are in a lot of trouble. It is very badly designed. The circle is far too small and as a result the steering angles are very acute. In addition, it seems that visibility for other vehicles is affected due to the location being next to an overpass of the 101. I had an 18-wheeler pull out in front of me after I presume he failed to see me exit the roundabout and head towards him. Just horrible.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

As it happens, i had to use the thing at exit 5A in Windsor today. I am stumped as to why it needed to be built. There was no issue I can recall with that intersection. It seems a great waste of tax money.

If that is the design that is being touted by the geniuses at TIR, we are in a lot of trouble. It is very badly designed. The circle is far too small and as a result the steering angles are very acute. In addition, it seems that visibility for other vehicles is affected due to the location being next to an overpass of the 101. I had an 18-wheeler pull out in front of me after I presume he failed to see me exit the roundabout and head towards him. Just horrible.

I've used it a few times now and never had a problem with it. The small radius is so the cars coming off of the 101 have to slow down going around the circle.

If you're talking about vehicles coming off of the 101 eastbound it may not have been the sight line that caused him to pull out. The wait to turn off of the ramp can be very lengthy so its possible he was cutting it closer than normal just to get out of the area in a reasonible amount of time.

[Dmajackson]

HRM To Hold Public Information Session on a Potential Roundabout within District 11

(Friday, May 28, 2010) - If you are interested in understanding why HRM staff is recommending a roundabout at the intersection of Devonshire/Duffus/Novalea, come to the public information session on June 2, 2010.


The public information session will be hosted by HRM’s Traffic Services at St. Stephen’s School (3669 Highland Avenue, Halifax) from 7 pm to 9 pm on Wednesday, June 2, 2010.


On May 11, 2010, Halifax Regional Council adopted in principle the use of modern roundabouts on municipal roads where appropriate design guidelines and standards can be met. A roundabout is a circular intersection where traffic goes one way, in a counter clock-wise direction, where vehicles yield upon entry. It provides another option for a controlled intersection, that is, instead of stop signs or traffic signals.


Staff will make a presentation on roundabouts, discuss why a roundabout is recommended at this location and be available to answer any questions.
To link to the staff report to HRM Council regarding roundabouts visit: http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...100511cow3.pdf

[Dmajackson]

North-enders reject roundabout
250 turn out to discuss installing traffic circle at Devonshire, Duffus and Novalea
By MICHAEL LIGHTSTONE City Hall Reporter
Thu. Jun 3 - 4:53 AM

It was pitched, then ditched, and now it’s been hoisted back to the starting line.

Lots of north-end Halifax residents still aren’t close to being comfortable with the prospect of a roundabout in their district.

In fact, they’re downright hostile to the idea.

Many folks at a packed public meeting Wednesday night told municipal staff a traffic circle is unnecessary for an intersection near the Devonshire Arena.

They were representative of a somewhat testy crowd of more than 250 people that gave municipal staff a rough ride over the concept.

The meeting was 14 minutes old before the audience let out its first collective groan mixed with laughs, directed at a city hall staffer.

Residents heard roundabouts are considerably safer than intersections with traffic lights.

Audience members didn’t buy it, though. And the visually impaired at the meeting said they fear for their well-being at roundabouts. One visually impaired man told the audience he tried a pedestrian crossing at the Armdale roundabout, "and it was a terrifying experience."

Staff late last year sought to build a single-lane roundabout at Devonshire Avenue, Duffus Street and Novalea Drive. Coun. Jerry Blumenthal (Halifax North End) said at the time he had no clue a plan was in the works to potentially convert the intersection. He expressed shock over the initial plan for a traffic circle, which was in a request for proposals on the city’s website, when contacted by The Chronicle Herald in December.

Blumenthal later asked staff to yank the tender call so a community meeting could be held. That session happened Wednesday in a gym at a local school.

Residents heard a presentation from Halifax Regional Municipality staff, and then let them have it.

A woman challenged staff to produce data on the need for a roundabout in Halifax’s north end. Another resident shouted a question from the back of the room: "Are you asking us or telling us" about the need for a roundabout?

Staff responded that their recommendation to Halifax regional council is for a traffic circle, but a decision will be up to the politicians.

An elderly man who lives at the north end of Novalea Drive said he goes through the intersection up to six times daily. He said Canadian benchmarks shouldn’t necessarily be associated with the proposed north-end project.

"It appears to me . . . that you’re applying national standards to an intersection in which they do not apply," he said, prompting spontaneous applause.

The city is also looking at building a roundabout at the Willow Tree intersection at Quinpool Road, Robie Street, Bell Road and Cogswell Street. As well, intersections at Cunard, North Park and Agricola streets, and at Ahern Avenue, Rainnie Drive and North Park, Cogswell and Trollope streets are being discussed.

Regional council last month agreed to push ahead with converting old intersections into modern roundabouts. Blumenthal is opposed to a traffic circle for his area. He said the planned roundabout will cost a minimum of $1 million.

Staff said the north-end intersection needs to be upgraded because the signals, installed in 1966, are approaching the end of their life span.

According to Transport Canada, "modern well-designed roundabouts have been shown to significantly improve the safety of the intersections when compared with the previous traffic control condition."

( mlightstone@herald.ca)

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Staff said the north-end intersection needs to be upgraded because the signals, installed in 1966, are approaching the end of their life span.

So replace the signals.
They've replaced traffic signals at a lot of intersections in HRM, without having to install circles. I still think this is a complete waste of money for this intersection.

[Haliguy]

I can't understand people.... just more nimby's who don't want change. There is nothing wrong with roundabouts and this would be a perfect place to put one.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

I can't understand people.... just more nimby's who don't want change. There is nothing wrong with roundabouts and this would be a perfect place to put one.

I disagree. I think that roundabouts are probably good solutions for many situations, but I do not believe they belong anywhere on the peninsula. To me, this smacks of trying to get more traffic in and out - and I have to say, I don't believe that's the right thing to do. Increasing traffic flow will only increase traffic...

... maybe you think more traffic is OK. I don't. I think that for too long the focus has been on cars (and here's where I probably start to sound like a NIMBY). I might be happier if cars were DISCOURAGED from entering the peninsula. If I were to describe what the transportation network of this city should be designed to do, it would be to encourage active transportation (bikes and walking) and public transit, while decreasing the reliance on automobiles and imported gas.

I would say that roundabouts discourage active transportation, neither discourage nor encourage public transit (though maybe they eat up potential funding sources), and potentially increase vehicular traffic (by increasing the capacity) and increase reliance on automobiles and fossil fuels.

So... to quote some of our favourite NIMBYs, this is fine, just not in this location (the number of times that sentiment expressed over "tall" buildings has made me want to scream makes it difficult for me to type it myself!). Now if you excuse me, I have some hail marys or something to say...

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

I disagree. I think that roundabouts are probably good solutions for many situations, but I do not believe they belong anywhere on the peninsula. To me, this smacks of trying to get more traffic in and out - and I have to say, I don't believe that's the right thing to do. Increasing traffic flow will only increase traffic...

... maybe you think more traffic is OK. I don't. I think that for too long the focus has been on cars (and here's where I probably start to sound like a NIMBY). I might be happier if cars were DISCOURAGED from entering the peninsula. If I were to describe what the transportation network of this city should be designed to do, it would be to encourage active transportation (bikes and walking) and public transit, while decreasing the reliance on automobiles and imported gas.

I would say that roundabouts discourage active transportation, neither discourage nor encourage public transit (though maybe they eat up potential funding sources), and potentially increase vehicular traffic (by increasing the capacity) and increase reliance on automobiles and fossil fuels.

So... to quote some of our favourite NIMBYs, this is fine, just not in this location (the number of times that sentiment expressed over "tall" buildings has made me want to scream makes it difficult for me to type it myself!). Now if you excuse me, I have some hail marys or something to say...

don't think so...roundabouts make perfect sense for the peninsula with its screwed up intersections like this one with five streets coming into it.

Roundabouts are safer and more efficient and guess what without imporved transit the cars are going to come anyway with the growth of the city.

They have to replace the signals anyway so why not make things better.

One of the worst intersections in the city where there should definitely be a roundabout is Cogswells and North Park I have seen a few bad collisions there.

[Keith P.]

People oppose these things for many reasons:
- they do not like change
- there are issues with pedestrian crossings
- they take up much space
- they are too European
- people don't understand the need for them and the huge expense
- and the #1 reason: people have long memories of the gawdawful Armdale and Micmac rotaries and want to never see them again.

Now, one can argue that roundabouts are not rotaries and that may be so in theory -- but Halifax drivers are terrible on their best days, and you know there will be some bozos who do not follow the rules and try to do the dreaded one-on-one routine, which spreads like a virus. Once that happens, it's game over.

Today I was witness to some of the worst, most boorish and rude displays of road manners I have ever seen, all caused by road construction. I find it hard to believe these idiots will suddenly play nice when they get into roundabouts.

[someone123]

People don't like change, but it will happen whether or not there are new roundabouts. There is going to be increased traffic. The only question is how to deal with it, and doing nothing is one of the worst possible answers.

Halifax is currently headed for a train wreck. Give it another decade and there will be 50,000 more people trying to use the same 1970s transportation system built for a city half the size. The longer the city waits to deal with the problem, the higher the costs will be, both in terms of lost quality of life and in terms of construction.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

They have to replace the signals anyway so why not make things better.

So replace the signals! Why replace the intersection?
It's like saying the wiring in my house is old and needs to be replaced; why not build a new house while I'm at it?

Anyway, you still haven't convinced me that a roundabout is appropriate for this intersection. Saying that it's a five-way intersection doesn't cut it, there's nothing wrong with a five-way intersection as long as people follow the traffic signals.
But as Keith said, drivers in Halifax are idiots at the best of times, I can pretty much guarantee they're going to treat this (if built) as a high-speed rotary.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I think a nice bronze statue or a fountain would look amazing in the middle of the armdale rotary:

http://www.halifaxwebcam.ca/live/ind...ET_CAM=armdale

What do you guys think?

[someone123]

Yep, I've always thought that would be a good place for some public art.

Same thing goes for intersections like North Park and Cogswell.

[Dmajackson]

I posted this on one of the articles comment boards but if Blumenthal doesn't want up to $1 million spent to improve traffic flow and the beauty of his district Bedford will gladly take the money and build a roundabout at the Bedford Highway and Rocky Lake Rd.

Normally councillors have to convince the city to finance projects but in this case the city is offering to spend money in his district

[Dmajackson]

Middle Sackville to get traffic roundabout
Halifax News Net
By Yvette d’Entremont-The Weekly News

The community of Middle Sackville will be home to a provincial traffic roundabout by the end of this year.
During a Northwest Community Council meeting in April, the province’s senior highway design engineer Keith Boddy shared plans for the Margeson Drive Interchange and Connector with a packed audience gathered at Millwood High School.
“Our plans are coming to fruition. Ramps and the connection to the highway will be done this season,” Boddy told the crowd. “The Interchange to Trunk 1 has to be completed by November. Asphalt has to be down. The (entire) project has to be done before March 31 or we don’t get federal funding.”
Boddy was quick to assure everyone the proposed roundabout bore absolutely no resemblance to the Mic Mac Rotary, but pointed instead to successful and similar models in Avonport and Windsor.
He shared a series of projected images and explained the differences between rotaries and roundabouts. He also noted that statistics demonstrate these kinds of installations are significantly safer than traditional intersection/interchange systems.
“There are seven of these style interchanges going forward (in Nova Scotia) this year,” Boddy explained. “It is seen as one of the safest types of intersections/interchanges in the world.”
The roundabout plan presented to the community is designed so vehicles must yield on entry and proceed when there’s a safe gap.
“If someone blows through a yield, you have a sideswipe or rear end collision. At a slower operating speed, collisions are a lot less severe than getting hit head-on or t-boned at a traditional intersection,” Boddy said.
Vehicles on the Middle Sackville roundabout could expect an estimated delay time of between six and 12 seconds. Boddy suggested that might be welcome in a growing area where traffic delays are notorious.
In addition, the roundabout’s proposed design ensures that it will function for about 20 years. Boddy said the roadway would remain open while under construction, but he didn’t expect traffic delays would be significant.
The roundabout will be located on a Middle Sackville portion of Sackville Drive at Margeson Drive, not far from the Atlantic Gardens property.
Local MLA Mat Whynott said when he first learned about the planned roundabout, he was worried. But he quickly came onboard and believes the majority of local residents also support the project.
“I’ve been out canvassing and informing people on the Sackville side of the riding, and so far 99 per cent have no problems with it as long as the project gets done,” Whynott said last week. “Education around how to use roundabouts is important and is really the key here.”
The vast majority of public speakers with questions after Boddy’s April 22 presentation were in favour of the idea, although some expressed their concerns about getting used to a roundabout.
Whynott said he’s focusing on public awareness and is anxious to see the federal/provincial cost-shared project move ahead.
“The project has to be done by March, and it doesn’t make sense to be putting pavement down in mid January,” he said. “The whole project will be done by December, 2010.”
The Sackville Drive roundabout is a provincial project cost shared with the federal government. However, HRM is also considering the installation of roundabouts at four downtown Halifax sites.
Residents were unhappy with municipal officials who tried last week to explain the rationale behind one proposed roundabout at the corner of Novalea, Duffus and Devonshire streets.
Last month municipal councillors unanimously supported, in principle, the idea of roundabouts in HRM. Regional council will determine whether such projects proceed.

ydentremont@hfxnews.ca

[Keith P.]

Flavor of the month idiocy. Why are all traffic bureaucrats such absolute morons?

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Flavor of the month idiocy. Why are all traffic bureaucrats such absolute morons?

Why are people so quick to dismiss a new approach before it's even tried in Halifax?

[alps]

Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly

Why are people so quick to dismiss a new approach before it's even tried in Halifax?

It has been tried, and it's probably a bad idea . I don't mind the Armdale circle (or those out by highway interchanges) because it doesn't have much pedestrian traffic, but I know how hard it is to cross. It seems contradictory to decry the Cogswell interchange as having cut off one part of the city from another while essentially doing the same thing at the Willow Tree by sticking a massive roundabout in there.

[tribeachpunk]

Council votes down circle, decides to upgrade traffic signals
By MICHAEL LIGHTSTONE City Hall Reporter
Wed. Jun 16 - 4:53 AM

A proposed roundabout for north-end Halifax is dead.

Regional council Tuesday killed the planned project, which had been destined for an intersection near the Devonshire Arena.

Council made the move after Coun. Jerry Blumenthal (Halifax North End) presented a motion to have city staff abandon the idea in favour of upgrading or replacing aging signal lights there.

The north-end traffic circle idea was ditched despite council’s approval in principle weeks ago of roundabouts in Halifax. Blumenthal has said building such a traffic-control structure in his area would have cost a minimum of $1 million.

Though councillors still support the construction of roundabouts, they recognized the strong opposition in the city’s north end to having one at the intersection of Novalea Drive, Duffus Street and Devonshire Avenue. Blumenthal presented council with a petition of more than 360 names signed by people who attended a heated public meeting on the issue earlier this month.

In a letter to Mayor Peter Kelly and council dated Monday, a Novalea Drive resident said municipal staff were off course regarding the need for a roundabout in her district.

"The recommendation of a roundabout at this location is overkill for a problem that doesn’t exist," Michelle Margolian said in her letter.

Blumenthal said public opinion in his area is firmly against a roundabout being built.

Tuesday’s sudden stop by council followed remarks by Coun. Linda Mosher (Purcells Cove-Armdale), who said city hall entered into the north-end roundabout controversy without properly consulting the public.

Staff initially proposed six months ago that a traffic circle be built at the intersection. The plan was part of a formal proposal request from Halifax Regional Municipality that neither the residents nor their councillor, Blumenthal, knew about.

In other business, council honoured dozens of young people at a city hall ceremony Tuesday evening. According to a city release, 48 "outstanding youth" were presented with 2010 citi)zenship awards for their commitment to their communities and school work.

"The recipients are chosen by teachers and principals based on demonstrated qualities of good citizenship," the release says. "Those chosen have shown that they not only excel academically but are also committed to giving back to their school and their community at large."

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1187503.html