CHICAGO | Obama Presidential Library

[left of center]

^ I thought they had made efforts to save as many trees as possible? Did they end up just clearing everything?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by left of center

^ I thought they had made efforts to save as many trees as possible? Did they end up just clearing everything?

source: https://chicagoyimby.com/2021/09/pho...hyde-park.html

[woodrow]

The tree discussion is absurd. Yes, they removed trees, but they will be replacing them and more! For goodness sake, they are removing a 4 (or 6?) lane road! Michael Van Valkenburgh Associates is the landscape architect and I am hopeful it will be beautiful.

I would wager that there are already trees being grown for the project and specimen trees being selected. That's what you do with a high cost, high profile project.

Finally, I was walking through Millennium Park yesterday and enjoying the large trees found throughout the 17 year old park. I know 17 years is a long time (it isn't) but it certainly isn't 50 years.

[southoftheloop]

Originally Posted by woodrow

The tree discussion is absurd. Yes, they removed trees, but they will be replacing them and more! For goodness sake, they are removing a 4 (or 6?) lane road! Michael Van Valkenburgh Associates is the landscape architect and I am hopeful it will be beautiful.

I would wager that there are already trees being grown for the project and specimen trees being selected. That's what you do with a high cost, high profile project.

This....what we're getting here is world-class architecture and world-class landscaping to replace a loud road slicing through a worn-down section of the park....let's keep things in perspective

[left of center]

I'm all for the preservation of trees where possible, but I am not going to be a blind obstructionist about it. Unless a tree is significant historically (George Washington took a leak on it or something 250 years ago, etc.) or the development is some sort of ugly monstrosity, then its not that big a deal. This is going to be a massive cultural addition to the city. The benefits far far outweigh the cons. The trees will grow back.

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by southoftheloop

this....what we're getting here is world-class architecture and world-class landscaping to replace a loud road slicing through a worn-down section of the park....let's keep things in perspective

+1

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by sentinel

What's your point? Any new trees being planted won't grow anymore?

no.... my point is that a 50 year old tree does not equal a 5 year old tree in usefulness or economic or aesthetic value

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by CaptainJilliams

I've always thought the tree criticism was the weakest argument you could pick for opposing this project.

was that a reason to oppose?

news to me... I'm not opposed... I was just making a comment

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by left of center

^ I thought they had made efforts to save as many trees as possible? Did they end up just clearing everything?

they definitely did not. i think they saved a handful at most.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i've never been opposed to the project in general because of the trees, but i do wonder if it was really necessary to clear cut the whole damn site into a moonscape.

i understand that a cleared site makes it MUCH easier from a construction standpoint, but still, wouldn't have been nicer if they could've found a way to save at least save some of those existing mature trees?

I think yes because of the underground parking. The parts of the building you can see in renderings are just the tip of a large, parking garage iceberg that will cover most of the site. If you remember, the original plan had a half-buried 2-level parking deck structure in the Midway between 59th/60th/Stony/Metra tracks, where it would not have impacted very many trees, but people protested so they moved the parking to a single level with twice the footprint, fully buried beneath/around the OPC. The old Women's Garden between 59th/60th/Stony/Cornell is not part of the enlarged parking garage footprint, but I wonder if they are using the space below to build an underground stormwater basin...

Also, a lot of the trees in Jackson Park were intentionally planted to line the roadways (tree "allees") but if the roadways are getting widened then the trees have to go. As I mentioned upthread the tree removals associated with the roadway widenings are more than those for the OPC itself.

Originally Posted by woodrow

Finally, I was walking through Millennium Park yesterday and enjoying the large trees found throughout the 17 year old park. I know 17 years is a long time (it isn't) but it certainly isn't 50 years.

This is a good comparison as Millennium Park was also largely built on structure, with either parking garages or the Metra station below. I believe the limited soil does put a cap on the growth of trees, but I could be wrong.

Maggie Daley Park is similar as well, maybe even moreso since MVVA worked on that and it hasn't had as much tree-growing time as Millennium. Personally I don't feel like Maggie Daley is a moonscape, the trees are not enormous yet but the park does not feel barren. Soldier Field is about as old as Millennium Park and there too, much of what appears to be landscape actually conceals underground parking.

[Via Chicago]

wont they need to re-line the MP roof at some point? i dont know how long those are rated for, but thats a big reason maggie daley had to be re-done in the first place. unfortunately given that situation im not sure how long those trees will realistically last.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I think yes because of the underground parking.

ohhhhhhhhh, got it.

that makes a lot more sense now, thanks.

like i said earlier, i was never anti-OPC because of trees getting cut down, i was just surprised when i saw the site with my own eyes and saw the whole damn property 100% clear-cut.

i was just like "jesus, couldn't they have made some attempt to save at least a few clumps of mature trees here and there?"

but yeah, the underground garage situation would indeed make that impossible.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

that’s the fault of the mcmansion architecture and urban planning. Many of the world’s most beautiful neighborhoods have almost zero tree cover.

It’s the unused grass lawns and dead pedestrian streets that create those mcmansion wastelands.

Cutting down mature trees is almost always a good trade if grass lawns and roads go with them. City trees don’t have the longest lifespans anyway, and they’ll grow back soon enough.

The real environmental travesty is when good farmland or actual habitat gets bulldozed for a subdivision.

100%

[rlw777]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

That’s the fault of the McMansion architecture and urban planning. Many of the world’s most beautiful neighborhoods have almost zero tree cover.

It’s the unused grass lawns and dead pedestrian streets that create those McMansion wastelands.

Cutting down mature trees is almost always a good trade if grass lawns and roads go with them. City trees don’t have the longest lifespans anyway, and they’ll grow back soon enough.

The real environmental travesty is when good farmland or actual habitat gets bulldozed for a subdivision.

I wasn't suggesting that there weren't beautiful places without tree cover. I was talking about the value of mature trees.

Originally Posted by sentinel

This is really a stretch right here, trying to conflate mcmansion subdivisions with a park, where as mentioned before, the trees removed are planned to be replaced. Fine, it may take 20 years for many of them to mature, but as far as I know, this is a permanent structure, so it's not like the newly planted trees are going to be cut down again. I still don't understand why the trees are such a sticking point for some reason

Originally Posted by sentinel

What's your point? Any new trees being planted won't grow anymore?

My comment was simply about the value of mature trees. I can understand why the fact that trees grow does nothing for people who value those mature trees right now and why they might want to keep as many as possible. I've never been against the Obama center being developed. It's not a sticking point for me at all.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

wont they need to re-line the MP roof at some point? i dont know how long those are rated for, but thats a big reason maggie daley had to be re-done in the first place. unfortunately given that situation im not sure how long those trees will realistically last.

Possibly, but remember the roof system at Daley Bi was state-of-the-art for the mid 1970s only. Roofing technology has come a long way and I hope the membrane at Millennium (or OPC) will last longer than 35 years...

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by rlw777

My comment was simply about the value of mature trees. I can understand why the fact that trees grow does nothing for people who value those mature trees right now and why they might want to keep as many as possible. I've never been against the Obama center being developed. It's not a sticking point for me at all.

yeah this argument is like saying "who cares if we cut down redwoods for lumber, we can just plant new ones".

theres a big difference in the value of an oak sapling vs the value of a 120 year old oak in an urban environment that shades multiple homes or a large section of a park. you can buy a new sapling for relaitvely little money. even if youre Bezos, you cant magically create a new 100 year old tree in a dense urban environment...theyre literally priceless and increasingly rare. trees like that can create their own microclimates and even bring down the temperature of a block vs the next one over (not to mention increase property values). given climate concerns and our already rapid loss of tree canopy due to invasives/insects/pollution/rising temps (and the headwinds any new sapling has in surviving to be 80+ in the first place), its just sad that so many people still dont seem to get it.

its the same nonsense with the city dragging its feet on implementing minimally invasive liner technology to repair water mains, and instead continuing to clear cut entire blocks

https://blockclubchicago.org/2019/07...k-critics-say/

[VKChaz]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

yeah this argument is like saying "who cares if we cut down redwoods for lumber, we can just plant new ones".

....

its the same nonsense with the city dragging its feet on implementing minimally invasive liner technology to repair water mains, and instead continuing to clear cut entire blocks

https://blockclubchicago.org/2019/07...k-critics-say/

Somewhat related topic: less intrusive methods are available to replace lead service lines, at least in some instances, that cities have used. Besides possibly saving a tree, they can be less expensive. I recall a Tribune article questioning why that wasn't tried in Chicago as a way to reduce costs (per various sources online, Chicago estimates $27K per line but other cities come in lower; Denver and Detroit have costs more like $5 to $10K per line) but haven't followed the topic so don't know the latest or if different methods are being tried or proposed

A technique that relies more on pulling — and less on digging up lawns — promises to save time and money as the Pittsburgh Water and Sewer Authority removes thousands of lead service lines.

“We don’t want to disrupt people’s yards. We don’t want to disrupt trees that have been there for probably 50, 60 [or] more years,” said Robert Weimar, PWSA’s interim executive director, at a demonstration Friday in Squirrel
Hill.
.....
A full-length trench excavation and replacement for each service line can take a crew more than a day, cost PWSA several thousand dollars and bust up sidewalks and landscaping in the process. But with the pulling method on display Friday, contractors said they can limit digging to a single hole in the ground and complete a few replacements a day. The approach may cut costs as much as 50 percent, Mr. Weimar said.
.....
In addition to complete excavation and the pulling method, a third option involves burrowing a brand-new tunnel for a replacement line — without digging a trench.

https://www.post-gazette.com/local/c...s/201805040159

[harryc]

Originally Posted by southoftheloop

This....what we're getting here is world-class architecture and world-class landscaping to replace a loud road slicing through a worn-down section of the park....let's keep things in perspective

This should be repeated - comparing these trees to redwoods must come from somebody who never visited the site before construction started.

( does seem they could have left some trees up - at least until the end - the optics _are_ horrible ).

[Chi-Sky21]

Don't anger the Ents!

[Gedung Tinngi]

Originally Posted by harryc

This should be repeated - comparing these trees to redwoods must come from somebody who never visited the site before construction started.

( does seem they could have left some trees up - at least until the end - the optics _are_ horrible ).

Yep. I live a couple blocks from the site. Every morning it presents a "Scorched Earth" appearance.

Trees will return to the site.
It will be different.
But, that's the cycle: Things change in a city.
Give it time...Like we did with Millennium Park.