Atlantic Canada Regional Transportation Thread

[mylesmalley]

Originally Posted by riverviewer

Why is it the government's responsibility to pay for water access to an obscure place that offers limited opportunities for economic activity and is already connected to the mainland by a bridge in the US?

Without a ferry to the mainland, someone denied access to cross the border, say for having a marijuana possession conviction, is basically trapped on the island.

Originally Posted by riverviewer

The argument that the island is part of Canada is not enough to justify $1.9 million for under 1000 people. Why don't the residents of the island pay taxes of $1900 a year to pay for their infrastructure if they want it?

Now I agree that there are situations where people's choice of lifestyle is heavily subsidized by their peers, but where do you draw the line? That's a slippery slope argument. Why do we plow rural roads?

Originally Posted by riverviewer

France doesn't have a direct ferry to Saint Pierre and Miquelon. Those forgotten French citizens have to travel through Newfoundland in Canada.

That's a straw man argument. Saint Pierre and Miquelon is thousands of km away from mainland France.

[MonctonRad]

I'm most concerned by the fact that islanders are denied basic services that any Canadian should be able to expect.

For example, tradespeople and contractors often refuse to service islanders because they have difficulty getting their tools and equipment across an international border (twice), and many don't have a passport. How would you feel if your pipe burst and you couldn't get a plumber (Canadian or American) to help you?

I'm a fiscal conservative, but there is such a thing as basic human decency and respect. Campobello islanders are Canadians and deserve all the rights and privileges thereof.

I agree with Myles that there is a "slippery slope", but the current plight of the islanders is not of their own doing. Everything was peachy-keen until 9/11. They are victims of the thickening of the border. Their situation is entirely different from somebody choosing to live 30 km down a woods road in central NB and then subsequently expecting the province to provide them with everything. Campobello islanders are clearly victims here........

[gehrhardt]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm most concerned by the fact that islanders are denied basic services that any Canadian should be able to expect.

For example, tradespeople and contractors often refuse to service islanders because they have difficulty getting their tools and equipment across an international border (twice), and many don't have a passport. How would you feel if your pipe burst and you couldn't get a plumber (Canadian or American) to help you?

I'm a fiscal conservative, but there is such a thing as basic human decency and respect. Campobello islanders are Canadians and deserve all the rights and privileges thereof.

I agree with Myles that there is a "slippery slope", but the current plight of the islanders is not of their own doing. Everything was peachy-keen until 9/11. They are victims of the thickening of the border. Their situation is entirely different from somebody choosing to live 30 km down a woods road in central NB and then subsequently expecting the province to provide them with everything. Campobello islanders are clearly victims here........

I agree. This isn't a situation where a few people recently decided to move to a remote island somewhere and are demanding the same services as everyone else at the taxpayers' expense. This is a community that has been around for over 200 years. There should be a reliable year-round transportation option that doesn't involve crossing an international border. Grand Manan and Deer Island get year round service. Why not Campobello?

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by Ross@YVR

There is also Point Roberts on the west coast whose residents must travel through Canada (including school buses) to reach mainland Washington. Don’t hear Washington residents suggesting a bridge or ferry for that Peninsula. But sell it, no way, instead they created an industry to attract Canadians, called cheap gas, booze and a marina. US delivers what Canadians want, we need to find what they want.

We are probably a lot more accommodating of the Point Roberts residents than the U.S. is of Campobello residents.

[riverviewer]

Originally Posted by OliverD

We are probably a lot more accommodating of the Point Roberts residents than the U.S. is of Campobello residents.

I guess $1900 dollars a year to subsidize the supplies to those hostages is a more economic option than funding their relocation to safer territories on this side of enemy lines.

[Taeolas]

Brought over from the Moncton thread since this is where this should be talked about I think.

Originally Posted by gehrhardt

I agree. This isn't a situation where a few people recently decided to move to a remote island somewhere and are demanding the same services as everyone else at the taxpayers' expense. This is a community that has been around for over 200 years. There should be a reliable year-round transportation option that doesn't involve crossing an international border. Grand Manan and Deer Island get year round service. Why not Campobello?

On top of that, Deer Island is right next to it, and Grand Manan is further away, so both are basically reasons why it should be serviced. This island is populated and it is close to the mainland, so it should be able to have mainland service at least as good as the other islands around it.

And the actual cost is a pittance compared to other transportation costs; there's no real reason NOT to be running the service. Maybe you could make an argument to charge a non-resident (non-NB-Plate) fee to use it, but that feels like more bother than it is worth. (and a hindrence on the tourism aspect)

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by OliverD

We are probably a lot more accommodating of the Point Roberts residents than the U.S. is of Campobello residents.

Point Roberts never should have been made part of the US though. It’s stupid.

[NB_ExistsToo]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Brought over from the Moncton thread since this is where this should be talked about I think.



On top of that, Deer Island is right next to it, and Grand Manan is further away, so both are basically reasons why it should be serviced. This island is populated and it is close to the mainland, so it should be able to have mainland service at least as good as the other islands around it.

And the actual cost is a pittance compared to other transportation costs; there's no real reason NOT to be running the service. Maybe you could make an argument to charge a non-resident (non-NB-Plate) fee to use it, but that feels like more bother than it is worth. (and a hindrence on the tourism aspect)

the entire project is difficult to justify especially since it only takes 1.5-2hrs to drive around. Given you have to go through the States, but that's not unheard of.

There's two spots that the US owns portions of land in a similar scenario at Campabello. One West of Winnipeg, and the Southern tip of Vancouver. Both of these locations only have access through Canadian roadways. I'm not sure how much desire there are in these locations for a full time ferry service.

[Taeolas]

Well, for Campabello's sake, there are two other factors to consider as well:

1. Islands around them have year round ferry service (including the next nearest island to them). The proposed ferry would actually just be a hop over to Deer Island where passengers would have to catch the next island.

2. They have had year round ferry service in the past; so they have expected this service in the past, and there's a desire to keep it for the future (especially with the thickened border).

The two US exclaves are their own thing and up to them to sort out and not really relevant to this discussion.

Given the direction the US has gone in the past years, heading more towards isolation; there is a slight (but not impossible) chance that they may decide that smaller crossings are unsustainable, and they decide to close that bridge. The island is at the mercy of the States keeping that crossing open as is; when instead for a drop of infrastructure money, we could keep them connected without worrying what the US does.

[riverviewer]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Point Roberts never should have been made part of the US though. It’s stupid.

Silly border decisions abound. Like the northwest angle in Manitoba. There was actually a petition to get the US to just give that piece of land back to Canada.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...rt-of-manitoba But that failed after only getting 5,554 signatures.

The Angle doesn't have ferry to connect it to Minnesota. In fact "Angle kids have one of the longest school bus rides in North America – nearly three hours roundtrip – leaving at 5am and going through border control four times a day." The high school is in Warroad, Minnesota

http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/2017...lost-in-canada

Maybe we can do a land swap. To sweeten the deal they can throw in upper Maine.

[David_99]

Originally Posted by riverviewer

Maybe we can do a land swap. To sweeten the deal they can throw in upper Maine.

We had it but the British gave it back after the War of 1812! This always irked me.

[MonctonRad]

Indeed.



Perhaps this is the solution to the Campobello problem - Canadian military reoccupation of northern and eastern Maine. Lubec would then be Canadian territory and the island would no longer be isolated.

Trump wouldn't mind, would he???

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Indeed.



Perhaps this is the solution to the Campobello problem - Canadian military reoccupation of northern and eastern Maine. Lubec would then be Canadian territory and the island would no longer be isolated.

Trump wouldn't mind, would he???

And we'd have a much more direct route to Montreal.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Indeed.



Perhaps this is the solution to the Campobello problem - Canadian military reoccupation of northern and eastern Maine. Lubec would then be Canadian territory and the island would no longer be isolated.

Trump wouldn't mind, would he???

MonctonRad, your best idea yet! I am still trying to determine who decided Canada kept Campobello Island. I know it was a treaty agreement, but I cannot find anything that says we received Campobello island because.....

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by PEI highway guy

MonctonRad, your best idea yet! I am still trying to determine who decided Canada kept Campobello Island. I know it was a treaty agreement, but I cannot find anything that says we received Campobello island because.....

The legend is that at the end of the Revolutionary War, the British and the Americans decided to let "natural water flow" delineate the boundary. To that end, they placed a barrel in the water at the mouth of the St. Croix River, and followed it out to sea on the receding tide. The barrel generously decided to follow the western shoreline of Passamaquoddy Bay, thus gifting Britain (and Canada) all the islands in the bay.

[MonctonRad]

(NB) Government surveys opinions on covered bridges, ferries
https://www.telegraphjournal.com/tim...ory/100851252/ (paywall)

The provincial government wants your thoughts on New Brunswick's covered bridges and river ferries.

Two public surveys were recently released as part of a "long-term management strategy" being developed by the provincial departments of Tourism, Culture and Heritage and Transportation and Infrastructure that will help define "the optimization and conservation" of 54 covered bridges and six river ferry crossings in the province.

They follow news of a detailed $400,000-$500,000 review of five covered bridges, announced last month by Premier Blaine Higgs, by Albert County's Timber Restoration Services.

"We are trying to develop a tourism strategy where we bring people into our province, and give them routes through our province on the formula of not bypassing New Brunswick," Higgs explained at the time.

The survey closes on March 8, and can be accessed by visiting gnb.ca and clicking on the 'Citizen Engagement and Consultations' link on the right-hand side of the page.

My opinion is that the remaining covered bridges in NB are cultural treasures, that should be maintained and repaired as necessary (wherever practical) in order to preserve the rural landscape of our province. The government should even consider replacing existing covered bridges with new covered replacements if the existing structure is beyond repair. Tourism routes should be created in the province so that visitors can be encouraged to visit these cultural treasures.

As for ferries, I believe the existing cable ferries on the Saint John River system serve a purpose and should be maintained. They are an enjoyable part of the journey in getting from point A to point B. I occasionally take drives in the summertime in the triangle between the lower Saint John and Kennebecasis rivers specifically to get a chance to use these ferry crossings. Again, they are a part of the cultural heritage of this province.

Finally, the province of NB must create a new year round ferry service for Campobello Island. At present, islanders are being denied basic rights of Canadian citizenship by being cut off from the Canadian mainland by a greater than one hour drive through the state of Maine. This just isn't acceptable.

[DoctorNick]

As a bit of a slap in the face, after an entire year of no ferry. The Ferry that could have been used on the route to Campobello over the summer (instead is contracted out by the government on the St. John River) is tied up on Campobello daily as they use it to help dismantle a wharf that the government decided to stop putting money into......

[MonctonRad]

Might as well give Campobello the old Newfoundland outport treatment and relocate everyone to the mainland. They could then give the island to the US.......

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Might as well give Campobello the old Newfoundland outport treatment and relocate everyone to the mainland. They could then give the island to the US.......

Relocation: Yes.
Selling to U.S.: No need. Just convert it into a natural reserve.

[MonctonRad]

CTV News Atlantic story on Campobello Island - the forgotten island:

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1614696