CHICAGO | General Developments

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by Chicago Shawn

^How did a second canopy get approved? Must have been a compromise in the class L process, and a bad one too. They are messing with a signature Mies element that is highly visible to the passer-by. They lobby adjustments I don't mind as much as its an interior space, but the canopy under the canopy is absurd and pointless.

Certain functional elements can be rationalized and therefore approved regardless of landmark requirements. I can't speak as to how far they can go because a canopy would be significant. But things like security or ADA would be changes to a landmark building that can be tastefully done and receive approval. Maybe provide additional shelter? I don't know. It's kind of pushing it....

[BWChicago]

Dirk Lohan talked briefly about the canopy recently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...K2RYHsk#t=400s

[fimiak]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

WTF is up with the comments about crime in Boystown?

"Granted - new jobs generated is a good thing -- but the Hotel needs to know the violence rate the area they want to put their hotel."

"I left with the distinct feeling that this was the big cashing-out of Boystown businesses. Things must be really, really bad. Partly due to the criminal element, but mainly due to social change. Nobody needs a gay bar any more, so the bar owners are ready to get their $ and bail."

Are these people serious or are these ploys by NIMBYs to sow doubt in investors?

I don't understand what the warning is for. The hotel's presence will reduce crime in the area if the staff is on the watch. The entire purpose of gentrification is to reduce crime by putting more feet on the ground in areas that are considered blighted.

[Kenmore]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

WTF is up with the comments about crime in Boystown?

"Granted - new jobs generated is a good thing -- but the Hotel needs to know the violence rate the area they want to put their hotel."

"I left with the distinct feeling that this was the big cashing-out of Boystown businesses. Things must be really, really bad. Partly due to the criminal element, but mainly due to social change. Nobody needs a gay bar any more, so the bar owners are ready to get their $ and bail."

Are these people serious or are these ploys by NIMBYs to sow doubt in investors?

No, they're serious. Most of the drama started with the Center on Halsted and the whole thing has a really nasty racist overtone.

[marothisu]

Long time lurker here. Sorry if this has been already posted, but I haven't seen it discussed lately.

As we know, a new building for the Quinlan School of Business for Loyola is planned for Pearson & State. A little bit ago, the barbershop on State (Alfredo's) closed and reopened at 4 W Chicago. Chill Bar in the same building, and next door, also looks closed as it has paper covering all the windows now.

Does anybody know if this means the destruction of the existing building here is coming soon and the new business school building will be starting construction relatively soon?

Again, sorry if this has already been talked about. I have been out of the country for the last few weeks and couldn't find it talked about in this thread.

[HowardL]

This to me is a much, much better location than McCormick or United Center. Still not as good as the NW corner of Fullerton and Sheffield but still getting it back closer to the LP campus.

DePaul eyes Finkl property for new arena: report

[Andrew|W]

Originally Posted by BWChicago

Dirk Lohan talked briefly about the canopy recently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...K2RYHsk#t=400s

An earlier design for the canopy had it supported on it's own slender columns and floated completely free of the building. This design is more clearly Miesian, but also a lot more permanent.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by HowardL

This to me is a much, much better location than McCormick or United Center. Still not as good as the NW corner of Fullerton and Sheffield but still getting it back closer to the LP campus.

DePaul eyes Finkl property for new arena: report

Better for who/what? The Finkl site is far from rail transit, not conveniently sited on bus lines, and doesn't have great road access to deal with auto traffic.

It's really only better for DePaul students, but because of the aforementioned transportation issues, it won't be a good place to host events other than DePaul games, like concerts or shows. IMO the ideal urban arena is convenient to transportation and stacks lots of programming to avoid the waste of the arena sitting empty. Barclays Center, basically.

I mean, I can evision a future where Ashland has a BRT line, Metra runs frequent trains to Clybourn, the PMD around Ashland/Cortland is abolished and a pedestrian bridge at Armitage links this new DUMBO-esque area to the DePaul Arena and housing on the east bank. But that requires a lot of pieces falling into place. McCormick offers the same advantages, right now.

[BWChicago]

Originally Posted by ardecila

It's really only better for DePaul students, but because of the aforementioned transportation issues, it won't be a good place to host events other than DePaul games, like concerts or shows.

Is there an untapped demand for arena shows in a venue the size of Sears Centre? Bigger than UIC Pavilion but smaller than Allstate or United Center? I'm skeptical.

[ardecila]

Untapped? Probably not. I think a properly-sited urban arena could easily steal business from all of those venues, though. Who wants to go to Hoffman Estates to see a concert? Maybe afterward, you can go get Chipotle... no, wait - Chipotle would probably be closed.

To be fair, UIC and United offer better scenarios, but United Center is still only awkwardly connected to CTA and UIC is too small.

I get your point; too many venues in the metro area means not enough business at any of them. Still, I think Chicago focuses way too much on how to split up the pie, and not on making the pie bigger (this applies to many facets of city leadership). The Chicago area should be competing for more national events than we currently do. How come we haven't hosted the Latin Grammys, or any other award show, when we have just as many Hispanic residents (proportionally) as LA, NY, or Houston?

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Better for who/what? The Finkl site is far from rail transit, not conveniently sited on bus lines, and doesn't have great road access to deal with auto traffic.

It's really only better for DePaul students, but because of the aforementioned transportation issues, it won't be a good place to host events other than DePaul games, like concerts or shows. IMO the ideal urban arena is convenient to transportation and stacks lots of programming to avoid the waste of the arena sitting empty. Barclays Center, basically.

I mean, I can evision a future where Ashland has a BRT line, Metra runs frequent trains to Clybourn, the PMD around Ashland/Cortland is abolished and a pedestrian bridge at Armitage links this new DUMBO-esque area to the DePaul Arena and housing on the east bank. But that requires a lot of pieces falling into place. McCormick offers the same advantages, right now.

I agree. This thing really needs to be heavy on transit to get a ton of other events hosted there. If it was for Depaul's exclusive use only it would make perfect sense. (Maybe to me since I went to University of Michigan where town-gown campus is shown at its finest )

[nomarandlee]

http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.co...0701/130419879

Developers propose 40 condos in West Loop

By: David Lee MatthewsApril 16, 2013

A pair of developers plans to build 40 condominiums in the West Loop, where new projects keep sprouting up amid strong demand and limited supply.

A joint venture led by Patrick O'Flaherty of Foxford Construction and George Nugent of Kilkee Builders acquired the development site last week at Green Street and Jackson Boulevard, where it has proposed five buildings of eight units each. The condos would be a mix of three- and four-bedroom units, Mr. O'Flaherty said........

..

[brian_b]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Developers propose 40 condos in West Loop

The pricing is a little bit high but not completely out of reach. All 3BR and 4BR units... This is what is very hot in the West Loop right now. Now that Skinner West is open to kids in the neighborhood it is really hard to find family-friendly housing under a million dollars and/or without huge monthly assessments.

The article mentions that there isn't enough demand for condo towers, but I think that's really only because condo towers skew heavily toward 1BR and 2BR units. A condo tower of 3BR+ units would work. Seriously. A walk-to-work location, an excellent public school, and above average green space. The West Loop is HOT for families right now.

[Swicago Swi Sox]

Originally Posted by ardecila

It's really only better for DePaul students...

In my opinion I think that is really what matters the most so I really hope this project ends up within walking distance of the LP campus. My wife went to DePaul and compared to other NCAA Division 1 basketball experiences, DePaul's is pretty bad. The student get a free shuttle bus out to Rosemont, but there were still not a ton of interest. The arena is typically very empty. This has to impact recruiting when players come for campus visit. A better basketball program can probably bring in more money than a few additional concerts stolen from other venues.

McCormick place would be better than Allstate or United Center, but a slightly smaller arena close to campus that they could fill makes more sense to me.

[brian_b]

Originally Posted by Swicago Swi Sox

but a slightly smaller arena close to campus that they could fill makes more sense to me.

If they want a small arena, it needs to be on campus.

[Swicago Swi Sox]

Originally Posted by brian_b

If they want a small arena, it needs to be on campus.

I agree that Fullerton and Sheffield would be awesome, but would be a traffic nightmare. It would also take up a big lot that DePaul could use for an educational building that probably wants to be closer to campus center than the arena. Plus Depaul's campus is not huge, so being "on campus" means that it would have to be in a pretty tight radius.

Finkel would be a little less than a mile from the DePaul "Quad", about 1 mile from the Fullerton Red Line Stop, less than a 1/2 mile from the Armitage Brown Line stop. Plus it would be right off of the expressway.

Compare that to the Welsh-Ryan Arena in Evanston which is a little more than a mile from Northwestern's Quad, about a 1/2 mile from the Purple line, and nowhere near an expressway.

Compare even further to Assembly Hall in Champaign, which is "on campus", but is also over a mile walk from the Quad.

[brian_b]

Originally Posted by Swicago Swi Sox

Compare that to the Welsh-Ryan Arena in Evanston which is a little more than a mile from Northwestern's Quad, about a 1/2 mile from the Purple line, and nowhere near an expressway.

Compare even further to Assembly Hall in Champaign, which is "on campus", but is also over a mile walk from the Quad.

Welsh-Ryan is a serious impediment to recruiting top talent to Northwestern.

Assembly Hall is big.

If you want to look at a small and successful arena, look at Cameron Indoor Stadium at Duke. It is only about a block from the end of the student housing quads.

[Rizzo]

I don't think arenas need to be directly on campus. There's something special about a procession to a sporting event through the neighborhood and past businesses. It gives campus some breathing room for future academic buildings as well as expansion by the arena for an "athletic campus."

The thing I don't like is this super block mentality where there is this notion that a campus must be completely contiguous. That's why I like DePaul and Loyola as opposed to UIC or IIT. The northside campuses blend with the neighborhoods. I worry that the arena right on the current DePaul campus will lead to more demos or possibly street closures.

[jdcpamba]

If you build the DePaul arena away from the campus you are continue to have situations where a team like Louisville comes in and the visiting crowd outnumbers the home crowd 4 to 1. I saw Louisville and Indiana play DePaul and the entire Allstate Arena was a sea of red. A college stadium needs to be by the campus so college kids can walk to the stadium. If they are going to build the stadium away from campus and away from public transportation it is a waste of public money. The fact that the university and the athletic director would even consider having a new stadium away from the campus further highlights one the reasons that team has been a joke for a number of years.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by jdcpamba

If you build the DePaul arena away from the campus you are continue to have situations where a team like Louisville comes in and the visiting crowd outnumbers the home crowd 4 to 1. I saw Louisville and Indiana play DePaul and the entire Allstate Arena was a sea of red. A college stadium needs to be by the campus so college kids can walk to the stadium. If they are going to build the stadium away from campus and away from public transportation it is a waste of public money. The fact that the university and the athletic director would even consider having a new stadium away from the campus further highlights one the reasons that team has been a joke for a number of years.

The transit distance argument against the Finkl site makes sense. It's not directly served with direct "main street" access to the site from a rail station. But the argument that the stadium is too remote for DePaul students to walk to is a bit ridiculous. There's some Big Ten schools where athletic facilities might be right on campus, but it's twice the distance to walk from a residence hall. The expectation for any urban campus to cram all its facilities into one insular compact area seems irrational to me. As I mentioned, the town-gown relationship of passing by local businesses for just a few blocks on the way to a game could be beneficial for increased pedestrian activity but reduced vehicular traffic shifted to higher capacity streets near the Finkl site.

As for transit, I think it's only important to be near a station if this venue will be large and cater to many other events for the public that will attract alot of out-towners vs neighborhood savvy locals. Let's not forget alot of DePaul student take transit anyways to campus. Here in Chicago we are all about walking to places. It need not be right by Sheffield or Fullerton.