Robson Square Renovations

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

What about restaurants? High end retail?
I hate to be repetitive, but there would be so much more life down there if there were a connection to to the transit system (as was originally planned, 35 years ago)

All we need is to get the Robson Subway built as planned, and this area can be converted into the subway station entrance as Erickson originally envisioned.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by Hed Kandi

Great concept - Flawed execution.

That rink should have been built to a minimum of international ice hockey measurements - or not at all.

Even GM Place is not built to international ice hockey measurements, and will be the first Olympics in modern history where they have compromised and allowed NHL sized ice.

Arenas like the Saddledome (1988 Olympics, they had International ice) and ACC in Toronto are capable of having both, GM Place is not.

Do you have any idea just how BIG NHL ice is let alone international ice?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Even GM Place is not built to international ice hockey measurements, and will be the first Olympics in modern history where they have compromised and allowed NHL sized ice.

Arenas like the Saddledome (1988 Olympics, they had International ice) and ACC in Toronto are capable of having both, GM Place is not.

Do you have any idea just how BIG NHL ice is let alone international ice?

I'm not sure I agree with the decision not to go with the international ice size in 2010. And I call BS that it "wasn't possible" at GM Place. It takes away a lot of lower bowl ticket sales though...

Another ridiculous comment by Hed Kandi.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'm not sure I agree with the decision not to go with the international ice size in 2010. And I call BS that it "wasn't possible" at GM Place. It takes away a lot of lower bowl ticket sales though...

Another ridiculous comment by Hed Kandi.

The ice in the Saddledome actually extends under the players benches and first few rows all around so they could be taken away, and the boards moved back.

This is not possible in GM Place because the ice ends at the boards. It would have costs *millions* of dollars to make it compatible.

[johnjimbc]

We are still talking about Robson Square, aren't we? If so, neither the NHL or Olympic size ice rink was possible in that rather narrow passage under the street . . . a little thing called physical reality prevents it . I think that was the point of Yume-sama's comment (correct me if I'm mistaken . . . it wouldn't be the first time ).

[SpongeG]

its good to see it used agin - sat empty for too long

[officedweller]

There are still huge tarps up all over the complex.

Pic by me today - note that all of the bare concrete surfaces are being covered by wraps:

[vanman]

Originally Posted by Delirium

bitch bitch bitch. some people are never happy...
But thanks Raggedy13 for the great pics! you take night shots really well.

anyway, for something that's only open 3 months a year, this serves its purpose well and looks great. nice to see there's a cafe too.

oh wait. it's not international hockey sized and there's no Gucci store and no connection to Pacific Centre. Scratch what I said. This is a colossus failure

Hahaha. I was seriously toying with the idea of creating an all encompassing whine/bitch thread so that all the negative Nancys and Debbie Downers here could have a place to bemoan and loathe every concievable aspect of Vancouver.

Btw the renovation of Robson Square look great, much better than what I was expecting.

[rbostyle]

One thing about Robson Square that I'm occasionally asking myself, is why no one has proposed removing the "grassy knoll" on the southeast corner of Robson and Hornby (or at least I've not come across any such thing). There's never enough room on the sidewalk on that side, being elevated and dark at night it's not the most secure feeling area to walk past (let alone up into), and I honestly don't see much purpose in it except maybe for nearby office workers to eat lunch in a secluded spot. Or for workers of late night professions to do their business.

Now I'm all for nature, but if we're wanting to make Robson Square into a thriving city square, removing that mound of dirt and replacing it with some nice pavers, and a pile of chairs/some tables is perhaps one of the cheapest actions, with one of the most visible results... there'd no longer be such crowding on the sidewalk/no need to step in front of traffic, it'd be a place for people to hang out, people watch, AND small performances could be made even bigger, with spectators sitting on the steps of the annex. At the same time, it would make the entirety of Robson Square much more visible, approachable, and 'explorable'.

Just look at the photo posted above and see if you don't agree.

Makes sense, non?

[LotusLand]

^ makes sense to me as I think it takes away from that side of the square as people are naturally gravitated to the VAG steps. I say take that down and have that be a place to sit, play chess in the summers and for street entertainers etc.. I don't know but that is a great point you brought up. They also need to do something about the grass on the Georgia street side of the square *yuck* either lose it or maintain it!

[Hed Kandi]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Do you have any idea just how BIG NHL ice is let alone international ice?

NHL : 26 m (85 ft) x 60 m (200 ft)
International: 30 m (98 ft) x 60 m (200 ft)

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

All we need is to get the Robson Subway built as planned, and this area can be converted into the subway station entrance as Erickson originally envisioned.

The Robson Subway? May I ask if you're being facetious, or serious? With the Canada line now built, the Robson Subway is the stuff of past dreams (unless you mean something other than a line parallel to the Canada Line; if you're serious, I'd like to know what you mean) But theoretically, you have a great point. It would be a focal point of downtown.

Originally Posted by LotusLand

^ makes sense to me as I think it takes away from that side of the square as people are naturally gravitated to the VAG steps. I say take that down and have that be a place to sit, play chess in the summers and for street entertainers etc.. I don't know but that is a great point you brought up. They also need to do something about the grass on the Georgia street side of the square *yuck* either lose it or maintain it!

The Georgia Street side is *yucko*, and all the worse, as Georgia is the main downtown drag. I wish they'd refurbish that whole side of the square with lighting, stone paving, possible a different fountain more in keeping with the classical bulding style, a classier more inviting "front door," an outdoor capuccino bar in summer .....

But yes! Please, City Hall, cut the grass and fix up your front yard, so to speak !!

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by rbostyle

One thing about Robson Square that I'm occasionally asking myself, is why no one has proposed removing the "grassy knoll" on the southeast corner of Robson and Hornby (or at least I've not come across any such thing).

Because Arthur Erickson designed it like that.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

The Georgia Street side is *yucko*, and all the worse, as Georgia is the main downtown drag. I wish they'd refurbish that whole side of the square with lighting, stone paving, possible a different fountain more in keeping with the classical bulding style, a classier more inviting "front door," an outdoor capuccino bar in summer .....

The VAG is in a Francis Rattenbury building (built 1906) that used to be the Old Law Courts, it doesn't need to be "classier and inviting", it needs to be historic. The fountain is the Centennial Fountain, laid in 1966 to commemorate the centennial of the union of the colonies of Vancouver Island and British Columbia (not of Canada or Confederation, it represents a BC moment); it's not going anywhere. Have you ever even seen the mosaic at the bottom of the fountain?

"He re-introduced a spiritual dimension to architecture," says architectural historian, curator and author of Arthur Erickson: Critical Works, Nicholas Olsberg of Erickson's landmark Robson Square development. "Before the NDP came to power in 1972, the Social Credit government was going to build a huge tower. Arthur came in and said 'This won't be a corporate monument. Let's turn it on its side and let people walk all over it.' And he anchored it in such a way with the courts — the law — at one end and the museum — the arts — at the other. The foundations of society. And underneath it all, the government offices quietly supporting their people. It's an almost a spiritual progression."

Sometimes you just have to leave things the way they were designed and built, or else you lose a little bit of history... and we have already lost A LOT of history, and amazing buildings, in this city.

[EdinVan]

The mosaic tile at the base of the fountain is, indeed, beautiful. Looks even better when the water is running.

I've since learned that the reason the fountain has been shut down is because it was vandalized. Apparently it won't be up and running again until next March. So now the entire plaza is completely bereft of life. No water, no lighting, no nice landscaping, not even decent signage.

[Delirium]

i think the north lawn of the VAG has been left bare intentionally because the area has become a regular gathering spot for protests and demonstrations. everything from the monthly meeting spot of Vancouver's Critical Mass, as well as flash mob demonstrations, the Zombie Walk, Pro-Marijuana rallies, and numerous environmental demonstrations.

so doesn't make much sense to have pretty landscaping everywhere to get trampled on.

i remember seeing renderings long time ago that showed the north lawn covered in granite and small fountains (akin to dundas square in TO).
what ever happened to that proposal?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Delirium

i think the north lawn of the VAG has been left bare intentionally because the area has become a regular gathering spot for protests and demonstrations. everything from the monthly meeting spot of Vancouver's Critical Mass, as well as flash mob demonstrations, the Zombie Walk, Pro-Marijuana rallies, and numerous environmental demonstrations.

so doesn't make much sense to have pretty landscaping everywhere to get trampled on.

i remember seeing renderings long time ago that showed the north lawn covered in granite and small fountains (akin to dundas square in TO).
what ever happened to that proposal?

Years back, as a an independent civic activist, I approached Joyce Catliff of the Vancouver Planning Commission, Anthony Norfolk of the Arts Council, and the then-curator of the VAG, Willard Homes.

There was a seminar held at the VAG, with interest groups from different backrounds expressing what they would like to see done with the plaza.

There were differing concepts, of course, but several points were consistent with ALL groups involved. Everybody's opinion converged in
certain areas.

1: Light up the front of the building in an elegant way, focussing on the
colums, and in particular the sentinel lions.

2: Make the square more "pedestrian friendly" with stone paving areas
and possibly a small outdooor restaurant / capuccino bar for warm
weather.

3: Regarding the fountain, as historic as it is, EVERYBODY agreed that
the stone sculptures were not in keeping (that is, they clashed) with
the 18th century, neo-classical design of the building, and,
furthermore, looked out of place in the Palladian fountain pond.

It was suggested that the sculpture be relocated to another location
- and there ARE other locations to be had - and that a more classical
fountain be built, same pool, same beautiful tiles, but different lighting
- soft white or pastels, and not the harsh red, yellow and blue primary
colours used now.

4: That trees be planted around the edge of the square and that they be
lit up from below using spotlights embedded in the pavement. This not
only enhances the beauty of the trees, but is a subtle yet effective
way of keeping the square accessible and lit up, to discourage people
from sleeping on it or riding their skateboards across it, etc.

5: That the square be "levelled out." That is, remove the small up-and
-down surfaces and trip-up steps of the plaza, remove the railings,
which are only an
impediment, and make the square level.

6: When repaving the square, use granite or some other stone, and NOT
concrete, in order to complement the elegance of the building, and to
remain in keeping with the classical aspect of it.

7: To encourage that the square not be used for demonstrations and rallies,
but that it be an inviting place, enjoyable for the citizens, attractive to
tourists, and a magent for photographers.

8: The Arts Council, the city planners, and the Art Gallery Director all
wanted to take action as soon as possible, but it was held up, and is still
hed up, by the fact that the square is leased from the BCBC (British
Columbia Buildings Corporation) who would not make a move on the issue.

As such, Georgia Square (the working title given to the unrealized project), remains a dream, and nothing has changed in twenty years, wheres we were all hoping for something within three years from the date of the seminar. It has been disappointing. Perhaps if the legal obstacles can be overcome, Georgia Square will become a reality; the jewel, the "heart" of downtown Vancouver.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by rbostyle

One thing about Robson Square that I'm occasionally asking myself, is why no one has proposed removing the "grassy knoll" on the southeast corner of Robson and Hornby (or at least I've not come across any such thing). There's never enough room on the sidewalk on that side, being elevated and dark at night it's not the most secure feeling area to walk past (let alone up into), and I honestly don't see much purpose in it except maybe for nearby office workers to eat lunch in a secluded spot. Or for workers of late night professions to do their business.

Now I'm all for nature, but if we're wanting to make Robson Square into a thriving city square, removing that mound of dirt and replacing it with some nice pavers, and a pile of chairs/some tables is perhaps one of the cheapest actions, with one of the most visible results... there'd no longer be such crowding on the sidewalk/no need to step in front of traffic, it'd be a place for people to hang out, people watch, AND small performances could be made even bigger, with spectators sitting on the steps of the annex. At the same time, it would make the entirety of Robson Square much more visible, approachable, and 'explorable'.

Just look at the photo posted above and see if you don't agree.

Makes sense, non?

i would love to see it gone - i always see rats in there or people doing naughty things

[officedweller]

I see rats running in and out of that grassy knoll all the time.

There was a proposal a fews years back to build glass box retail pavillions on Robson - one on the site of the grassy know, and another on the site of... the pagoda ... on the north side of the street at Howe.

Anyone still have copies of those renders?

I think it is alluded to in the MOU mentioned here (dating back to the year 2000):
http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/001205/A5.htm

****

Shame about the grass on the north lawn being allowed to go brown and die. I remember years ago there was a small plastic chain fence that used to blcok pedestrians from cutting diagnally across it - that's when it was healthy grass and on summer days people would lie out on the grass. A couple of years ago, they gave in and installed paving stones to form a diagonal path across the lawn. That was the death knell for it, I guess.

[itinerant]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i would love to see it gone - i always see rats in there or people doing naughty things

The grassy knoll is a key element to the landscape vision of the Robson Square as an urban park, and would truly suck if it were ever considered expendable. Isn't it bad enough that the buildings are now encircled by new barred fences and superfluous glass railings? The knoll is in need of minor maintenance, but otherwise the plantings are mature and generally in good health. I think Cornelia Hahn Oberlander would have a thing or two to say about modifications if you dare ask her. Although Arthur is gone, she is still very actively looking after one of her creations.

[itinerant]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Years back, as a an independent civic activist, I approached Joyce Catliff of the Vancouver Planning Commission, Anthony Norfolk of the Arts Council, and the then-curator of the VAG, Willard Homes.

There was a seminar held at the VAG, with interest groups from different backrounds expressing what they would like to see done with the plaza.

There were differing concepts, of course, but several points were consistent with ALL groups involved. Everybody's opinion converged in
certain areas.

1: Light up the front of the building in an elegant way, focussing on the
colums, and in particular the sentinel lions.

2: Make the square more "pedestrian friendly" with stone paving areas
and possibly a small outdooor restaurant / capuccino bar for warm
weather.

3: Regarding the fountain, as historic as it is, EVERYBODY agreed that
the stone sculptures were not in keeping (that is, they clashed) with
the 18th century, neo-classical design of the building, and,
furthermore, looked out of place in the Palladian fountain pond.

It was suggested that the sculpture be relocated to another location
- and there ARE other locations to be had - and that a more classical
fountain be built, same pool, same beautiful tiles, but different lighting
- soft white or pastels, and not the harsh red, yellow and blue primary
colours used now.

4: That trees be planted around the edge of the square and that they be
lit up from below using spotlights embedded in the pavement. This not
only enhances the beauty of the trees, but is a subtle yet effective
way of keeping the square accessible and lit up, to discourage people
from sleeping on it or riding their skateboards across it, etc.

5: That the square be "levelled out." That is, remove the small up-and
-down surfaces and trip-up steps of the plaza, remove the railings,
which are only an
impediment, and make the square level.

6: When repaving the square, use granite or some other stone, and NOT
concrete, in order to complement the elegance of the building, and to
remain in keeping with the classical aspect of it.

7: To encourage that the square not be used for demonstrations and rallies,
but that it be an inviting place, enjoyable for the citizens, attractive to
tourists, and a magent for photographers.

8: The Arts Council, the city planners, and the Art Gallery Director all
wanted to take action as soon as possible, but it was held up, and is still
hed up, by the fact that the square is leased from the BCBC (British
Columbia Buildings Corporation) who would not make a move on the issue.

As such, Georgia Square (the working title given to the unrealized project), remains a dream, and nothing has changed in twenty years, wheres we were all hoping for something within three years from the date of the seminar. It has been disappointing. Perhaps if the legal obstacles can be overcome, Georgia Square will become a reality; the jewel, the "heart" of downtown Vancouver.

I've had similar desires to see the plaza at the Georgia Street side remodeled, and hadn't realized BCBC was the holdup. Not sure I'd agree the fountain (so not entirely unanimous) is so drastically inappropriate, but a leveling of the square surrounding plantings, removal of grass in the centre in favour of a stone surface would be great!

Relocation of the flagpole to front and centre on Georgia (as it once was, when it was much much bigger) would be good. Maybe someone can find a photo that shows this older version of the square?