[Halifax] QE II Health Sciences Centre | ? | ? | U/C

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Finally, I want to again strongly emphasize the importance of parking in any hospital facility. This is of immense concern to patients, visitors, staff and physicians. For the love of God, don't cut back on the planned parking in this building for any reason..........

I'm curious as to why you keep distinguishing between staff and physicians?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by OliverD

I'm curious as to why you keep distinguishing between staff and physicians?

Standard practice. Very few physicians are hospital employees. We function as independent contractors providing health care services and we act as patient advocates.

Same idea as lawyers and courthouses. Lawyers are not court employees (that would be a conflict of interest). Lawyers however use courthouse facilities during the course of their workdays. Bailiffs and stenographers are court employees. Lawyers are not.

[mleblanc]

Originally Posted by OliverD

I'm curious as to why you keep distinguishing between staff and physicians?

In my experience it's doctors being full of themselves Same reason residents aren't allowed in most doctors lounges perhaps lol.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

Oh My, I will tell you a little story about my younger years as I turn sixty this coming October. When I graduated from Dalhousie back in 83 my father asked me to sum up my experience in a paragraph. I told him I could do it in less than a sentence. "I know nothing" I replied. "You have learned well my son" was Dad's reply .

Think about that .

I actually agree with you here.

I think that if we really want to improve the hospital we should begin with questions on what its users actually want, instead of going full-blown technocrat.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I'm curious, since Citadel High School is just down the street from the proposed hospital complex (just across the street from one of the proposed parkades). Are we to assume that it's a failure because it doesn't have ground floor retail?

I mean, it's located on a prominent piece of land just down the road from the Quinpool shopping district, and also nearby to the Spring Garden Road area. When you walk by the school, it's not welcoming to the public, so it actually creates somewhat of a dead zone to pedestrians in a prime location.

Why didn't they build it taller and add pedestrian-friendly features, like shops and services, at ground floor level? To take it even further, they could have built residential units on top of the school, which would have been perfect for hospital staff (who could then just walk across the street to go to work, and not require parking) or teachers from the school, who then would not require cars... ever.

I'm thinking that the celebrated champions of virtuous planning may have missed an opportunity there.

To be honest, the idea would seem a bit ludicrous to me, but from the condescension received I feel that perhaps these thoughts are best left to the planning experts, those in the know... so what say you? From now on, should we build all government-funded institutions as such? Is this not the way of the future? Could the commercial aspects of such buildings take some of the burden from municipal and provincial budgets while helping to connect the Spring Garden and Quinpool districts? Enlighten me.

One thing more, I've noticed more and more these days that many parents drive their kids to school and then wait to pick them up at the end of the school day. This is obviously wasteful car-oriented behaviour that reinforces the belief that car use is good among our impressionable youth. Perhaps our planners who know more about what's good for us than we do should propose to convert all streets near schools into no-stopping zones with regular checks by police officers who could write tickets that would help deter the behaviour. This would force our car-oriented parents to think of other ways of escorting their children to school - perhaps incorporate dedicated bicycle paths to only be used by parents/children on their way to school, so they don't have to be late for school being caught up in bicycle traffic of the regular workday bicycle commuters.

See? There are lots of low hanging fruit ideas out there for the budding planner.

[Keith P.]

That's great, Mark. It seems that some of my way of thinking is starting to rub off on you.

The problem of having govt dip its toe into the market for leased commercial space is multi-faceted. It gets govt competing with the private sector, using taxpayer funds. It gets them into an area about which they know nothing. It would require them to build for a potential market which is totally foreign to them. They would need to build to a quality standard that they are unfamiliar with, and deliver that end product in a timely and cost-efficient manner, something also not in their world. And of course it presumes they would know what the market actually wants in the first place, which is a completely closed book to them. If this had happened a few years ago, govt would just be finishing up their build of a Blockbuster store about now.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The problem of having govt dip its toe into the market for leased commercial space is multi-faceted.

Don't they already have pharmacies, restaurants like Tim Horton's and Subway, maybe other businesses like gift shops in some of the health buildings? These could be put along the outer edge of the property and near to the Willow Tree corner so that there is a better street-level presence.

All of these changes are a question of balance. "If we do this, where do we stop?" is exactly the question being debated. It might be good to look at other countries or provinces too since Canada/NS are often extremely conservative.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

I think that if we really want to improve the hospital we should begin with questions on what its users actually want, instead of going full-blown technocrat.

I would extend the question possibly a bit beyond what you intended, or perhaps you implied this without coming out and stating it explicitly.

Govt would reply to you theat they did consider user needs, and point to the various consultation committees convened over the last few years. But those only heard opinions of those working in the system - hospital administrators, doctors, clinicians, and engineers. The voices of patients were not included anywhere as far as I could tell, and that is typical of govt. They have no concept of what is important to their "customers" for want of a better word, nor any idea of what that group would like to see. Perhaps they would like customer lounges scattered throughout instead of waiting rooms at the ends of long corridors, to use one example. Perhaps they would like services in distinct buildings or campuses instead of all in one massive complex. Who knows. All I do know is that they weren't asked in any meaningful way.

It is just something govt seems incapable of doing. We see it in most everything, from the various debacles recently around registering for vaccine shots, which meant using ill-designed and poorly implemented systems that were extremely frustrating for the public to navigate, or for that matter using almost any municipal, provincial or federal IT system that is public-facing. All of them seem to be designed by bureaucrats or technocrats for their convenience, but not for Joe Public to use easily. The same mindset holds true in designing facilities like these.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by mleblanc

In my experience it's doctors being full of themselves Same reason residents aren't allowed in most doctors lounges perhaps lol.

My brother works at the Halifax Hospital complex and I tease him by calling him Darth Vader. I have witnessed folks he works with literally stop breathing when he strides onto a floor. He is merciless when doing rounds with his students and makes no apologies as lives are at stake. He knows people think he is a prick but he is also the Doctor his students would want to take care of their Family. He usually parks in the Hospital underground when he does not walk to work.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That's great, Mark. It seems that some of my way of thinking is starting to rub off on you.

Uuhhhh... I don't know what to say....

I can see it becoming my destiny, though, if I continue to choose to spend time here... Might have to go full

The more nonsensical it gets, the more it all makes sense.

[Corker]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The problem of having govt dip its toe into the market for leased commercial space is multi-faceted. It gets govt competing with the private sector, using taxpayer funds. It gets them into an area about which they know nothing. It would require them to build for a potential market which is totally foreign to them. They would need to build to a quality standard that they are unfamiliar with, and deliver that end product in a timely and cost-efficient manner, something also not in their world. And of course it presumes they would know what the market actually wants in the first place, which is a completely closed book to them. If this had happened a few years ago, govt would just be finishing up their build of a Blockbuster store about now.

Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but isn't this project to be a public private partnership? Though perhaps that is just for construction and maintenance. But if the private sector involvement allows it to operate or lease out space then that should enable it to optimize any commercial spaces.

The hospital restaurant service is already contracted out. I suspect that agreement would limit who or what could go into any new restaurant spaces. I believe the current hospital restaurants are mandated to be health food focused which may limit the market somewhat.

As for the parking issue, is it known how much, if any underground parking is being built? Though it costs more to go down than up, if every other major development on the peninsula is putting in two levels of underground parking then this one should as well. Though I suppose that goes back to the choice between spending more for a well designed facility vs actual health infrastructure.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I would extend the question possibly a bit beyond what you intended, or perhaps you implied this without coming out and stating it explicitly.

Govt would reply to you theat they did consider user needs, and point to the various consultation committees convened over the last few years. But those only heard opinions of those working in the system - hospital administrators, doctors, clinicians, and engineers. The voices of patients were not included anywhere as far as I could tell, and that is typical of govt. They have no concept of what is important to their "customers" for want of a better word, nor any idea of what that group would like to see. Perhaps they would like customer lounges scattered throughout instead of waiting rooms at the ends of long corridors, to use one example. Perhaps they would like services in distinct buildings or campuses instead of all in one massive complex. Who knows. All I do know is that they weren't asked in any meaningful way.

It is just something govt seems incapable of doing. We see it in most everything, from the various debacles recently around registering for vaccine shots, which meant using ill-designed and poorly implemented systems that were extremely frustrating for the public to navigate, or for that matter using almost any municipal, provincial or federal IT system that is public-facing. All of them seem to be designed by bureaucrats or technocrats for their convenience, but not for Joe Public to use easily. The same mindset holds true in designing facilities like these.

More often than not consultations are just another step in the process. I’ve not been acquainted with how consultations work at the provincial level, but I picture them being of limited detail compared to a municipal development application. In my limited experience compiling public comments for the federal government, we were receiving thousands of comments from individuals, businesses and lower levels of government. We may have received some very detailed justifications, but in the end we’re compressing them all into a short description for an elected official.

[ScovaNotian]

There is lots of information regarding the entire planning process at https://healthredevelopment.novascot...on-master-plan . Whether this is still up to date I don't know.

[Colin May]

[QUOTE=Corker;9222734

As for the parking issue, is it known how much, if any underground parking is being built? Though it costs more to go down than up, if every other major development on the peninsula is putting in two levels of underground parking then this one should as well. Though I suppose that goes back to the choice between spending more for a well designed facility vs actual health infrastructure.[/QUOTE]
Blasting rock for underground parking next to a 24/7/365 hospital would be out of the question.

[OldDartmouthMark]

You guys will be pleased to know that Peggy Cameron is in lock-step with you regarding the hospital parkades: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...mmon-1.5954476

Cameron said she's more concerned about toxins that will be emitted from the parking garages slated to be built nearby. The province plans to build a 500-space garage next to the Museum of Natural History, as well as a 1,000-space garage on the site of the former CBC building next to the Halifax Infirmary.

"Directly across the street, there's going to be a thousand-car parking garage, so there's all those emissions just across the street," she said. "I don't think they've done a full analysis of what the implications of that are."

Because, you know, parked cars emit a lot of toxins...

It's a good thing it hasn't occurred to her that the constant traffic driving by the commons actually does continually emit exhaust gases...

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

It's a good thing it hasn't occurred to her that the constant traffic driving by the commons actually does continually emit exhaust gases...

Especially cars driving around and around looking for parking spaces.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

It's a good thing it hasn't occurred to her that the constant traffic driving by the commons actually does continually emit exhaust gases...

I hope she keeps speaking out. The more she talks, the less credible she and her disciples become.

[Good Baklava]

If there’s one thing that unites nearly all Halifax SSP users, it’s our shared distain for Peggy Cameron.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

If there’s one thing that unites nearly all Halifax SSP users, it’s our shared distain for Peggy Cameron.

So true.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

I hope she keeps speaking out. The more she talks, the less credible she and her disciples become.

Agreed. Though it hasn't seemed to matter so far as the local media people still seem more than happy to quote her in their articles.