Meet The New Miami: A Series Of Self-Sustaining, Interconnected Villages

[Ant131531]

Miami is not going underwater. They'll engineer and build the infrastructure to stop that from happening before it ever does. Same thing for cities like New York, Venice, etc.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Miami is not going underwater. They'll engineer and build the infrastructure to stop that from happening before it ever does. Same thing for cities like New York, Venice, etc.

Not so sure about Miami, which has much more urgent issues than New York, and may already be operating on borrowed time. In today's NY Times there's an article about the pushback to the solution proposed by the Army Corps of Engineers:

A 20-Foot Sea Wall? Miami Faces the Hard Choices of Climate Change.
A proposal to construct barriers for storm surge protection has forced South Floridians to reckon with the many environmental challenges they face.

MIAMI — Three years ago, not long after Hurricane Irma left parts of Miami underwater, the federal government embarked on a study to find a way to protect the vulnerable South Florida coast from deadly and destructive storm surge.

Already, no one likes the answer.

Build a wall, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed in its first draft of the study, now under review. Six miles of it, in fact, mostly inland, running parallel to the coast through neighborhoods — except for a one-mile stretch right on Biscayne Bay, past the gleaming sky-rises of Brickell, the city’s financial district.

The dramatic, $6 billion proposal remains tentative and at least five years off. But the startling suggestion of a massive sea wall up to 20 feet high cutting across beautiful Biscayne Bay was enough to jolt some Miamians to attention: The hard choices that will be necessary to deal with the city’s many environmental challenges are here, and few people want to face them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/02/u...urricanes.html

[dave8721]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Massive condo towers atop parking podiums =/= urbanizing better. The Mission in SF, despite being comprised of mainly 2-4 story buildings, absolutely crushes Miami in terms of urbanity.

Yes it often does. Its not urbanizing ideally but it is certainly urbanizing better when compared to the surface parking lots that the giant condo towers replace.

parking lot: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7635...7i13312!8i6656
became giant condo tower on parking podium: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7636...7i16384!8i8192

more urban before? https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7673...!7i3328!8i1664
or after? https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7673...7i16384!8i8192


Sometimes it goes the other way with neighborhoods of nice old apartments: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.8017...7i13312!8i6656
Being replaced by this: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.8017...7i16384!8i8192

[mhays]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

The reality is, you go to Miami for the beach and nightlife, not to do urban exploring. I just don't think there's a truly a will for Miami to become an urban purist's ideal environment like Seattle. Same thing with Las Vegas.


That being said, Miami to some extent will have to densify in order to keep growing because of the limited space due to the Everglades and Atlantic Ocean.

I like Seattle, but wow is it a long way from being an urban paradise.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by dave8721

Yes it often does. Its not urbanizing ideally but it is certainly urbanizing better when compared to the surface parking lots that the giant condo towers replace.

parking lot: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7635...7i13312!8i6656
became giant condo tower on parking podium: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7636...7i16384!8i8192

more urban before? https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7673...!7i3328!8i1664
or after? https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7673...7i16384!8i8192


Sometimes it goes the other way with neighborhoods of nice old apartments: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.8017...7i13312!8i6656
Being replaced by this: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.8017...7i16384!8i8192

Miami is certainly urbanizing better than what was there previously. But the original argument was that Miami is urbanizing better (or the best) compared to other cities in the US. Which I'm still not seeing the case for.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by mhays

I like Seattle, but wow is it a long way from being an urban paradise.

I meant by that statement that Seattle is trying to become an ideal urban environment and cities like Miami and Las Vegas may not have the same desire to do that. I don't think Seattle is the ideal urban environment for a purist at all....I just think Seattle wants to build an environment as close to one as possible.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Massive condo towers atop parking podiums =/= urbanizing better. The Mission in SF, despite being comprised of mainly 2-4 story buildings, absolutely crushes Miami in terms of urbanity.

Miami isn't trying to be the Mission District.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

I meant by that statement that Seattle is trying to become an ideal urban environment and cities like Miami and Las Vegas may not have the same desire to do that. I don't think Seattle is the ideal urban environment for a purist at all....I just think Seattle wants to build an environment as close to one as possible.

Yes, much like "A Series Of Self-Sustaining, Interconnected Villages" surorunded by SFRs peppered with ADUs.

[bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

the nice think about the podiums is that it's easy to move the street level up as Miami goes underwater.

People do not seem to know or understand that Miami's geology doesn't it allow it to build underground parking garages like many cities. If you dig a few feet down you hit the porous Oolite Limestone that most of the Miami metro sits on and hit water.

The Atlantic Coastal Ridge of southeastern Florida, the islands of the Lower Florida Keys, and much of the Everglades, are underlain by Miami Oolite.[2] This limestone was formed by deposition when shallow seas covered the area between periods of glaciation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolite

You have to dig several hundred feet before you hit solid bedrock. The Port of Miami tunnel which is only 1 Mile long cost $1 Billion dollars because they had to dig down to a depth of 120+ feet to construct it.
The only way to build underground garages like the WTC had is to build a bathtub and that is just way too expensive for developers to do in Miami.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by bobdreamz

People do not seem to know or understand that Miami's geology doesn't it allow it to build underground parking garages like many cities. If you dig a few feet down you hit the porous Oolite Limestone that most of the Miami metro sits on and hit water.

The Atlantic Coastal Ridge of southeastern Florida, the islands of the Lower Florida Keys, and much of the Everglades, are underlain by Miami Oolite.[2] This limestone was formed by deposition when shallow seas covered the area between periods of glaciation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolite

You have to dig several hundred feet before you hit solid bedrock. The Port of Miami tunnel which is only 1 Mile long cost $1 Billion dollars because they had to dig down to a depth of 120+ feet to construct it.
The only way to build underground garages like the WTC had is to build a bathtub and that is just way too expensive for developers to do in Miami.

Isn't this also why a sea wall won't really help?

I've been in Miami Beach for a King Tide before. Clear skies, no rain...and flooded streets.

The water came up through the ground.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by bobdreamz

People do not seem to know or understand that Miami's geology doesn't it allow it to build underground parking garages like many cities. If you dig a few feet down you hit the porous Oolite Limestone that most of the Miami metro sits on and hit water.

The Atlantic Coastal Ridge of southeastern Florida, the islands of the Lower Florida Keys, and much of the Everglades, are underlain by Miami Oolite.[2] This limestone was formed by deposition when shallow seas covered the area between periods of glaciation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolite

You have to dig several hundred feet before you hit solid bedrock. The Port of Miami tunnel which is only 1 Mile long cost $1 Billion dollars because they had to dig down to a depth of 120+ feet to construct it.
The only way to build underground garages like the WTC had is to build a bathtub and that is just way too expensive for developers to do in Miami.

Most of us are aware of that by now. Knowing the cause of above-grade garages doesn't help their impact on urbanity.

Also, the issue isn't just the location of the parking. It's the quantity of parking and orientation toward driving.

[UrbanImpact]

New proposal in downtown Miami with no parking podium (not the first one):

https://www.thenextmiami.com/40-stor...th-no-parking/

[mhays]

Progress, yes. But they're going for offsite parking. I don't see whether that's buying something existing or building new.

[UrbanImpact]

Originally Posted by mhays

Progress, yes. But they're going for offsite parking. I don't see whether that's buying something existing or building new.

The adjacent under construction Miami World Center will have parking in the retail and hotel portions.

[dave8721]

Originally Posted by mhays

Progress, yes. But they're going for offsite parking. I don't see whether that's buying something existing or building new.

Its the 2nd 40+ story tower announced in the last week with no parking. Utilizing an existing nearby parking garage is certainly better than building your own. You can see in the rendering this is going up next door to an existing parking garage. This 100 year old building would be demolished for the new building though: https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7790...7i16384!8i8192

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by UrbanImpact

New proposal in downtown Miami with no parking podium (not the first one):

https://www.thenextmiami.com/40-stor...th-no-parking/

Not bad. Has some potential.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Miami is not going underwater. They'll engineer and build the infrastructure to stop that from happening before it ever does. Same thing for cities like New York, Venice, etc.

They cannot build infrastructure to stop it (which even if they could would take a miracle), the limestone the city sits on makes that impossible.

[brian_b]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Miami is not going underwater. They'll engineer and build the infrastructure to stop that from happening before it ever does. Same thing for cities like New York, Venice, etc.

The future is embracing nature, not fighting it. Turn the worst of the flooded roads into canals. And if Seattle can have a floating interstate highway, Miami can have floating city streets.

[10023]

Originally Posted by mhays

You can do the same thing with a podium full of housing.

Well, no you can’t, because that would mean huge interior spaces and windowless rooms or units.

If you want to have a big swimming pool surrounded by lounge chairs and things, you need a lot of surface area, and that’s going to need to be above either big commercial floor plates (which there might not be demand to fill, especially if commercial tenants also want to be in high rise floors with views) or parking.

[mhays]

Depends how big you're talking, and the sort of units. It can make sense with a smaller podium and the shoebox-shaped unenclosed-one-bedroom type common in some cities, where two units and a hall can span in excess of 100'.

For larger podiums, you can also do a light well and still put amenities on some or all of the roof.

And then there's the office option which likes bigger floorplates.