Northern Ontario developments!

[TbayON]

Originally Posted by russman

Are they really putting that shitty black siding on that building? In 2013?

Don't act so surprised. Here in T-Bay, the owner of the former Colosimo's building on Algoma was going to clad the front of that building with steel siding. That plan didn't go through, at least as of yet. Cheaper steel sidings come in the $1.00-$2.00 a square foot range, much cheaper than stucco, brick and stone. And lots of building owners are cheap!

While on the topic, if anyone hasn't been inside The Foundry yet on Red River, I suggest you go. Unbelievable how the owner took the building right back in time with the finishes inside. One could be forgiven for thinking that building's interior dates from a by-gone era. I was impressed, and very happy to see someone bring a building back to life like that in T-Bay.

=======

I noticed that the Thunder Bay District Health Unit has put out a tender for architectural design services. I am not sure what exactly they are up to, but I would assume some sort of construction will be coming down the pipeline eventually (subject to the availability of dollars of course).

The people behind the proposed 'Dawson Heights' development want to expand their project. The new plan is for 15 single detached units, 20 townhouses and five six-plexes. City council will consider this at Monday's meeting, and administration is recommending it get the green light. No gov't agencies have any objections, but some neighbours are concerned about multi-unit residential development in the area. I don't think any multi-unit development doesn't earn this type of attention in a residential area in this city.

The new yet-to-be-opened Marriott Hotel may not be opening for some time. The city has ordered the developer to repair floors that are collapsing. The floor structure was not supposed to get wet, but was saturated during this spring's late snowfalls and thaws. Also, a rumour is out that the footings under one of the elevator shafts may have shifted already. No idea how this would be fixed if its true. If I was the engineer behind this building, I would be well on my way to Mexico by now. Light weight steel building obviously aren't worth the paper they are written on in this part of the country.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by russman

Are they really putting that shitty black siding on that building? In 2013?

You clearly haven't been to Ottawa. The silver version of that seems to be the siding of choice for every midrise and modern home built since 2005.

Now I have a question that probably seems totally out of left field, but why did they put Port Arthur where they did? Fort William is on the river so that makes sense, but if they wanted it to be a separate city why didn't they put Port Arthur the next bay over near where Shuniah and Dorion are?

[greyraven8]

This may answer some of your question about the location of Port Arthur. From a historic plaque site. It's plaque #48 on the site

http://www.waynecook.com/athunderbay.html

If not interested in the other plaques, here's the text copied:

PORT ARTHUR

On Thunder Bay just north of Fort William, engineer Simon Dawson established the eastern terminus of the Canadian government's proposed land and water route connecting Lake Superior and the Red River, for which construction began in 1869. The next year, when Colonel Garnet Wolseley led the Canadian Expeditionary Force over the Dawson Road to quell the Red River Resistance, he named his camp here Prince Arthur's Landing. It was renamed Port Arthur and chosen as the site of the Canadian Pacific Railway's first grain elevator in 1883, and then it became a central terminus of the Canadian Northern Railway in 1902.

and here's the Wikipedia entry on Port Arthur:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur,_Ontario

[vid]

It's just where they happened to make landfall when they were working on the Dawson Road. Port Arthur wouldn't have become anything more than a hamlet had CP not decided to build an elevator and railway station there.

The first town was started around the intersection of Brodie and Miles (right under the courthouse) in the late 1840s but didn't get much bigger than a handful of houses. In the 1870s, Westfort was developed. Port Arthur settlement began in the late 1870s/early 1880s and when it was chosen by CP as a terminus in 1883, it boomed and became a town. Fort William is the "youngest" city, it was first developed in the East End and Simpson Street area in the late 1880s and then spread south to the current downtown (and its original location) in the 1890s. All of the buildings in Fort William that were built before 1890 but are located outside of Westfort or the Simpson Street/East End areas were relocated to where they are now. The oldest building in the city (McIntyre House at the corner of Catherine and Isabella) was moved more than a mile from its original location right beside the Fort (in the East End). The longest standing building outside of the original settlements was demolished a few years ago for the DSSAB; it was originally built on Vickers and was moved at some point to Brodie and Arthur. It wasn't known that the house on that location was the house seen in historic photos until just before it was demolished.

The western terminus of the Dawson Road is in an industrial park in St. Boniface. It led to the vicinity of the mouth of the Seine River. A portion of it forms Lagiomodiere Boulevard.

[TbayON]

The discovery of silver at Silver Islet, and the subsequent mining operations, also helped establish Port Arthur. Many miners would pass through Port Arthur, both on their way to work at the mine, and also to frequent the town's many watering holes during time off work. Port Arthur also served as a service and supply hub for the mine.

======

I noticed the empty lot across Carrick from the Superstore has been cleared. It went up for sale and sold this summer and fall respectively. Several loads of fill have also been brought in, and two entrances to the lot with culverts have been installed. I haven't heard anything myself what may be coming to the lot, but it won't be anything major. It is a very small parcel of land.

The repairs to the floor structure of the Marriott are underway. There are dozens of locations on several floors that need fixing. Carpet is already down and furniture has been moved into the building, which will only complicate the job. There is also heavy condensation on the windows of the building. One even blew out on the back the other day. I wouldn't be surprised if this building has mould issues in the not to distant future. Don't expect an opening any time soon here. I would think late winter/early spring so much as no other issues with the building arise.

Apparently the Victoria Inn is on the cusp on doing quite a major renovation to a good portion of their building. So far, I think its just interior renos to guest rooms.

[tjernobyl]

I'm going from memory, so please correct me if you see anything that's off. I've heard that Port Arthur was sited where it was because that's "where the swamp ends". If you imagine the shoreline as it was, I find it believable. There was a sand bar at the mouth of the Kam that many believed would make building a port impractical. Looking northward, the McIntyre and Neebing were prone to flooding. At the foot of the present Red River Road, they'd have a mild rocky shore with access to fresh water from McVicar Creek and another since-disappeared creek that I believe ran down Pearl. From the hill, they'd have a better vantage point to see incoming marine traffic.

When the Dawson Trail was begun, they intended to go overland to Dog Lake and started building in that direction. Soon, a better route was found that went to Shebandowan, but the starting point was the same. Given that Black Bay was further away, and anything on the other side of the Kam would be hampered by the Nor'Westers, Prince Arthur's Landing was a pretty good spot.

[vid]

After that little bend in the road where Lydia Avenue is today, Dawson continued and connected to Dog Lake Road and then continued to the lake.

[TbayON]

According to the mayor's state of the city address, Thunder Bay will finish 2013 with about $210 million in construction. In other words, it was another good year and will rank as one of the best once again in city history. This year included a real mix of private and public investment.

My predictions for 2014 (all guesses and based only on my opinion, I may or may not be wrong):
-single detached housing starts will stay flat due to a lack of labour in town to get new homes up
-the TBRHSC will be looking to the province seriously for funding or have funding approved for an expansion of the hospital to solve long term gridlock (which will also require in increase in the number of provincially funded beds at the hospital). I'm going out there on this one and don't know of any specific rumours, I just know something needs to be done for acute care in this city
-the expansion of the Nor-west Health Clinic on Simpson will begin a slow revitalization of that corridor
-Innova Park will have at least a couple new tenants now that construction is complete on the adjacent portion of Golf Links
-the city will go ahead with the events centre officially subject to funding from higher levels of gov't
-downtown P.A. is going to change dramatically for the better
-"The Club" condos will be bankrupted, and a new project manager will carry on with the project. It may be scaled back a bit because of the delays.
-a resurgence of the solid wood products industry will take some of the spot light off of mining as a major job creator
-one more major hotelier will set up in the city

...I'll add to my list when I have more time to think about it.

[Conker]

Originally Posted by TbayON

According to the mayor's state of the city address, Thunder Bay will finish 2013 with about $210 million in construction. In other words, it was another good year and will rank as one of the best once again in city history. This year included a real mix of private and public investment.

My predictions for 2014 (all guesses and based only on my opinion, I may or may not be wrong):
-single detached housing starts will stay flat due to a lack of labour in town to get new homes up
-the TBRHSC will be looking to the province seriously for funding or have funding approved for an expansion of the hospital to solve long term gridlock (which will also require in increase in the number of provincially funded beds at the hospital). I'm going out there on this one and don't know of any specific rumours, I just know something needs to be done for acute care in this city
-the expansion of the Nor-west Health Clinic on Simpson will begin a slow revitalization of that corridor
-Innova Park will have at least a couple new tenants now that construction is complete on the adjacent portion of Golf Links
-the city will go ahead with the events centre officially subject to funding from higher levels of gov't
-downtown P.A. is going to change dramatically for the better
-"The Club" condos will be bankrupted, and a new project manager will carry on with the project. It may be scaled back a bit because of the delays.
-a resurgence of the solid wood products industry will take some of the spot light off of mining as a major job creator
-one more major hotelier will set up in the city

...I'll add to my list when I have more time to think about it.

-I wouldn't leave the James street swing bridge off of your list. I expect that the bridge will be closed to vehicular traffic permanently since CN gains nothing by having cars run on their bridge. In addition I see no funding will come for a new bridge since the province will not fork up the cash, and it is city land on both sides of the river so no federal money. The only long term cost efficient solution is to upgrade the highway and intersection from Chippewa road to the Kam bridge.

[vid]

Unless the rail portion is heavily reinforced somehow, I don't see how they can open up the bridge to just rail and pedestrian traffic but not cars. Considering CN is the company that fails to maintain its right-of-ways and doesn't report derailments, I'd hardly be surprised if they're lying about the bridge.

I overheard in an all-white environment that a meeting is being held Thursday to oppose the relocation of the Indian Friendship Centre to the old PA Proz along with an expansion for a youth centre. While those opposing the expansion claim to not be racist, the conversation I overheard was very racially motivated. They're doing everything they can to downplay they opposition to First Nations. I have other plans for that evening but I am sure the meeting will be an entertaining shit show the likes of which we haven't seen since FOMP and NWMEPC were at their peak in 2010.

[newhere]

Just read in the Globe and Mail that the Terry Fox family is looking for an institution to take possession of tens of thousands of documents relating to Terry's run of courage. Although they state their wish that these documents remain in B.C., they might be swayed to consider Thunder Bay given its close connection with the run. Maybe a separate wing within the Art Gallery?

[tjernobyl]

Originally Posted by Conker

-I wouldn't leave the James street swing bridge off of your list. I expect that the bridge will be closed to vehicular traffic permanently since CN gains nothing by having cars run on their bridge. In addition I see no funding will come for a new bridge since the province will not fork up the cash, and it is city land on both sides of the river so no federal money. The only long term cost efficient solution is to upgrade the highway and intersection from Chippewa road to the Kam bridge.

The town of Fort William paid a portion of the costs for construction of the bridge, and in return got an agreement to allow vehicular traffic in perpetuity. CN can delay it with reason, but I don't think they permanently close it without a major court case.

When the GTP claim is settled, will City Road remain with the city, or will it revert to the reserve?

[TbayON]

Originally Posted by tjernobyl

The town of Fort William paid a portion of the costs for construction of the bridge, and in return got an agreement to allow vehicular traffic in perpetuity. CN can delay it with reason, but I don't think they permanently close it without a major court case.

What is driving me crazy about this whole thing is people don't understand the construction of that bridge. They think because trains are rolling again, cars should also be allowed. The train portion of the bridge is built like a brick shit-house, while the lanes for vehicular traffic are basically scabbed onto the sides (cantilever system). My biggest complaint about CN is the lack of specific info. and commitment. Tell us whether this is a priority to you or not and if, what and when you actually intend to do anything. Enough of the run-around.

Originally Posted by tjernobyl

When the GTP claim is settled, will City Road remain with the city, or will it revert to the reserve?

I should know more about this claim, but I haven't really spent too much time looking into it. I have heard a rumour that FWFN is going after a portion of the Slate River Valley too. It wasn't from a really 'official' source, so I don't know if I should believe it. If true though, I would assume that City Road would be absorbed by FWFN.

One thing I did leave off my list of expectations is FWFN. I expect quite a bit of change to occur on reserve this year. More so that we have seen in quite some time.

===========

The developer of the Holiday Inn at Carrick is willing to develop a separate building on his property from what I have heard. He is willing to build a restaurant should and lease to a brand-name chain who will run the operation themselves. From what I have heard, it would have to be a well known restaurant chain.

I also heard a rumour today that the Marriott hotel building is for sale. I am not sure I believe this one just yet. There are a lot of problems with the building though, so anything is possible.

There is a post on the Opportunity T-Bay page showing pictures of a zoning application sign indicating a developer would like to construct a 24 metre (six-storey) mixed use building at 115 Cumberland St. (old cinema building). The building will be mixed use, with 71 residential units and 2 floors of underground parking spaces. My downtown P.A. prediction may be coming true before the year is even over!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by TbayON

According to the mayor's state of the city address, Thunder Bay will finish 2013 with about $210 million in construction. In other words, it was another good year and will rank as one of the best once again in city history. This year included a real mix of private and public investment.

My predictions for 2014 (all guesses and based only on my opinion, I may or may not be wrong):
-single detached housing starts will stay flat due to a lack of labour in town to get new homes up
-the TBRHSC will be looking to the province seriously for funding or have funding approved for an expansion of the hospital to solve long term gridlock (which will also require in increase in the number of provincially funded beds at the hospital). I'm going out there on this one and don't know of any specific rumours, I just know something needs to be done for acute care in this city
-the expansion of the Nor-west Health Clinic on Simpson will begin a slow revitalization of that corridor
-Innova Park will have at least a couple new tenants now that construction is complete on the adjacent portion of Golf Links
-the city will go ahead with the events centre officially subject to funding from higher levels of gov't
-downtown P.A. is going to change dramatically for the better
-"The Club" condos will be bankrupted, and a new project manager will carry on with the project. It may be scaled back a bit because of the delays.
-a resurgence of the solid wood products industry will take some of the spot light off of mining as a major job creator
-one more major hotelier will set up in the city

...I'll add to my list when I have more time to think about it.

I wish for 2014 that Costco announces its setting up shop in town !! Buils at corner of Oliver and Expressway and build a few more stores around it . A Lowes would be nice .

[TbayON]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I wish for 2014 that Costco announces its setting up shop in town !! Buils at corner of Oliver and Expressway and build a few more stores around it . A Lowes would be nice .

I wouldn't count too much on a Lowes yet. I think with Target's cold reception in Canada and the failure of Big Lots (at least according to company big wigs), American retailers are going to be a little more weary of jumping full on into the Canadian marketplace (I know Lowes is in Canada already, but not widespread). Canada was seen as a grand, unexploited market for many large American retailers without a presence here up until recently, I think that may be changing a bit. Thunder Bay contractors and many residents also tend to be very loyal to several local lumber yards. Home Depot locally has been a failure if one considers their original plans for Thunder Bay (which involved closing down pretty much every local lumber yard within a year of opening).

As for Costco, I would think they are one of the most likely big box stores to set up shop here. I am not sure the grocery marketplace in T.Bay has reached the saturation point yet, even with the arrival of No Frills. No matter the chain, grocery stores are always busy here. Costco would surely be an anchor tenant to get development going in adjacent lands if they permit development.

[vid]

Large-format stores we don't yet have, in no particular order: Rona; Princess Auto; BestBuy; London Drugs; Giant Tiger; Indigo; Visions; Fields; MEC

[greyraven8]

Regarding the James Street bridge.

Found a an interesting 'Canadian Rail' publication pdf online with an article on The Grand Trunk Pacific's Lake Superior Branch. Here's one relevant section:

In choosing a site for the terminal at the lakehead, the GTP civil engineers examined several sites and land was optioned to take the line to Bare Point, north of the harbour at Port Arthur. The site selected was a 1,600-acre tract obtained from an Indian reserve, fronting on both the Kaministiquia and Mission Rivers at Fort William.

The latter stream required considerable dredging. Fort William paid handsomely for the privilege of welcoming the Grand Trunk Pacific, with $200,000 cash and a $50,000 subsidy to build a combination rail and road bridge to gain access to the land on the south side of the Kaministiquia River. There were also tax exemptions, land grants and street closings. The enabling by-law was ratified by the Fort William ratepayers in the ratio of 100 to 1.

Here's the whole pdf
http://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Can...no296_1976.pdf

Found this while failing to find info. online on the exact agreement between the city and CN on the bridge (specifically exact wording on CN's obligation to vehicular traffic).

If I get ambitious might get around going to City Archives or the Museum to get a look at the 1905 agreement between the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway and the City of Fort William. I suspect the same agreement would hold when the government took over the Grand Trunk, formed CN, and CN became private, but if get really ambitious I might try checking that.
http://www.thunderbay.ca/Assets/City...+File+List.pdf
4139-008 and even 4139-005 look promising.

If someone at the city hasn't checking into this they should. Maybe there will be something there to force CN to get their ass in gear (i.e. hits them hard in the pocketbook) either on moving quickly on fixing the bridge for vehicle traffic, or if that isn't a viable option ponying up some major bucks towards a new bridge. Five months plus of just "studies" doesn't come close to cutting it.

[TbayON]

Originally Posted by vid

Large-format stores we don't yet have, in no particular order: Rona; Princess Auto; BestBuy; London Drugs; Giant Tiger; Indigo; Visions; Fields; MEC

Rona and Best Buy are hurting. Best Buy is actually closing large format stores and moving more towards an on-line store. I don't see either coming to town in the near future until they get their financial houses in order. On the other hand, Princess Auto is a likely one. Having their headquarters in Winnipeg will help. We have seen quite a bit of investment come in from Winnipeg that past few years. I think Tractor Supply Co. is another likely candidate. They have made it up to Sault Ste. Marie now, so Thunder Bay is a logical next step. Canadian Tire needs some competition here, and TSC would do just that. Giant Tiger has missed out on their opportunity with Dollarama's basically covering the whole city now. The demise of Big Lots at the Northwood Mall does present a real good opportunity though. I think a small format Golf Town (or some kind of golf store) is also likely.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by TbayON

Rona and Best Buy are hurting. Best Buy is actually closing large format stores and moving more towards an on-line store. I don't see either coming to town in the near future until they get their financial houses in order. On the other hand, Princess Auto is a likely one. Having their headquarters in Winnipeg will help. We have seen quite a bit of investment come in from Winnipeg that past few years. I think Tractor Supply Co. is another likely candidate. They have made it up to Sault Ste. Marie now, so Thunder Bay is a logical next step. Canadian Tire needs some competition here, and TSC would do just that. Giant Tiger has missed out on their opportunity with Dollarama's basically covering the whole city now. The demise of Big Lots at the Northwood Mall does present a real good opportunity though. I think a small format Golf Town (or some kind of golf store) is also likely.

Also Best Buy and Future Shop are owned by same people , so not sure if they would even want to set up here in a smaller market ?
I agree with Rona getting their house in order because thats been going on for a long time , to bad because i think it might of done well here as it offers stuff that Home Depot doesnt have.

[super39]

Saw zoning signs up at the corner of Mapleward and Arthur. I believe a lot more lots will be added here soon