Atlantic Schooners

[bluenoser]

Halifax Mayor Mulls Wanderers Grounds As Home For CFL Team https://huddle.today/2023/02/16/hali...-for-cfl-team/

HALIFAX – Halifax Mayor Mike Savage has breathed new life into the decaying but persistent idea of bringing a professional football team to the city.

The mayor says plans are being floated to expand the Wanderers Ground into a multi-purpose stadium capable of hosting a CFL franchise.

Savage stressed that nothing is official yet but appeared bullish on the idea.

[dreamcamera]

Originally Posted by bluenoser

Halifax Mayor Mulls Wanderers Grounds As Home For CFL Team https://huddle.today/2023/02/16/hali...-for-cfl-team/

I really hate this idea. I'm probably biased because I'm not a CFL fan, but I don't want money spent on a temporary Frankenstein stadium. If you want a professional sports team, you should really have a professional facility to play in. St. Mary's should be tossed as a potential idea.

[JHikka]

The current Wanderers expansion plan is for 10K capacity. I'm not sure what incentive there is for Wanderers (the team) to have a larger stadium which isn't right-sized to the club as well as sharing the facility with another team, to say nothing of the assumed hurdles of dealing with the lack of space at site for an even larger expansion.

Savage is playing at something. There's no potential ownership group and nobody leading this push at this moment.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by dreamcamera

I really hate this idea. I'm probably biased because I'm not a CFL fan, but I don't want money spent on a temporary Frankenstein stadium. If you want a professional sports team, you should really have a professional facility to play in. St. Mary's should be tossed as a potential idea.

Maybe a 20,000 seat stadium could be shoehorned into the Trade Mart site if space were obtained from the Cogswell lands?

Trademart site - Google maps:

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6519.../data=!3m1!1e3

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6515...7i16384!8i8192

[fatscat]

The one ideal thing about CFL-level grounds existing in Downtown is exactly that, it'll be downtown. So many mistakes made in the past with stadiums being out in the burbs.

(Awaits the "but traffic will be even _worse_ downtown!" crowd)

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The current Wanderers expansion plan is for 10K capacity. I'm not sure what incentive there is for Wanderers (the team) to have a larger stadium which isn't right-sized to the club as well as sharing the facility with another team, to say nothing of the assumed hurdles of dealing with the lack of space at site for an even larger expansion.

Savage is playing at something. There's no potential ownership group and nobody leading this push at this moment.

I'm not a CFL fan either, but it seems the league is pushing hard for a team here, not sure if there is still an interested group behind the scenes.

As for the stadium, the Wanderers do not own it and have no intention of owning it. They have approached government to pay for the permanent expansion of the facility, stating that "as it's public land it's not our place to fund it" (aside from lease fees presumably). They've likened it to the Mooseheads and Scotiabank Centre.

Savage may see a tenant like CFL as a second revenue stream (leasing) from an underused facility, and a means to justify the upgrades.

[ILoveHalifax]

The late Fenwick, back before Savag,e actually superimposed all kinds/sizes of stadia on various sites in and around the city - one location was Wanderers Grounds and it will accommodate about 20,000 PLUS with a slight change in Bell Road on one corner (move to square off and into the garrison grounds) -

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

I'm not a CFL fan either, but it seems the league is pushing hard for a team here, not sure if there is still an interested group behind the scenes.

The CFL needs Halifax more than Halifax needs the CFL.

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

As for the stadium, the Wanderers do not own it and have no intention of owning it. They have approached government to pay for the permanent expansion of the facility, stating that "as it's public land it's not our place to fund it" (aside from lease fees presumably). They've likened it to the Mooseheads and Scotiabank Centre.

Yes, but right now they're the main tenant of the facility and presumably the expansion would be in their favour and with them in mind. I don't see a scenario where they would support a bid to make the stadium far larger than they otherwise need it to be. CPL has enough cavernous, too-large stadiums as is.

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

Savage may see a tenant like CFL as a second revenue stream (leasing) from an underused facility, and a means to justify the upgrades.

Sure, but there needs to not only be interest in both sides but also a viability in their plans. Savage is effectively saying 'wouldn't it be cool if we had X here' and then leaving the ball in their court. I don't see how it's very effective. I imagine he's doing this because they reached out to SSE and heard back nothing, as Huddle mentions, and so now he's gone public.

[Keith P.]

Just one more thing for HRM to spend their endless supply of tax dollars on.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Just one more thing for HRM to spend their endless supply of tax dollars on.

Apparently the supply of tax dollars is not endless (see rapidly ballooning municipal deficit).

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Apparently the supply of tax dollars is not endless (see rapidly ballooning municipal deficit).

There is no "rapidly ballooning municipal deficit". Municipalities in NS cannot carry deficits. Any shortfall in a given year becomes a budget item which is addressed first in the succeeding year.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

There is no "rapidly ballooning municipal deficit". Municipalities in NS cannot carry deficits. Any shortfall in a given year becomes a budget item which is addressed first in the succeeding year.

Deficit is annual. Debt is cumulative, but point taken, I was loose with my wording. I should have said something along the lines of "increasing unexpected deficit"

[OldDartmouthMark]

Frankly, I'm surprised that the commons hasn't been discussed as a stadium site. Mind you, the "friends of" people would be all over that...

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Empire

Maybe a 20,000 seat stadium could be shoehorned into the Trade Mart site if space were obtained from the Cogswell lands?

I like the idea of putting a Metro Centre replacement in that location much better.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Apparently the supply of tax dollars is not endless (see rapidly ballooning municipal deficit).

The most galling thing is the way some of these clueless councillors suddenly become experts on a subject once HRM decides to spend money on it. This week both Mason and Austin are suddenly instant experts on electric vehicles, both having long threads on FB about how HRM's upcoming $60 million purchase of new electric buses at $1 million each plus associated new infrastructure to keep them running (so far not costed) is the only one true way of providing Transit despite the many organizational and operational problems with the agency. It is mind-boggling how dismissive they are of citizens questioning the move. The arrogance is unreal.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Deficit is annual. Debt is cumulative, but point taken, I was loose with my wording. I should have said something along the lines of "increasing unexpected deficit"

Gee, thanks so much for 'splaining debt vs deficit...

My point was that anything that could be conventionally described as a deficit only exists for a matter of months, as it's immediately addressed in the next annual budget. In a real sense it amounts to nothing.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

My point was that anything that could be conventionally described as a deficit only exists for a matter of months, as it's immediately addressed in the next annual budget. In a real sense it amounts to nothing.

It only amounts to nothing if city council learns its lesson and becomes more fiscally responsible the next time round. If however the councillors remain inconsiderate of the taxpayers, continue to promote their pet projects and continue to spend like wastrels, then the same mistakes will be repeated over and over again, with the ongoing temptation to increase the property tax rate.

Sooner or later the ratepayers will get pissed off and throw the bums out.

[teddifax]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I like the idea of putting a Metro Centre replacement in that location much better.

That would be fantastic... have the stadium built with Towers over and all around it, roadways could be still there but underground. ....Also, just wondering, what is the view plane restriction over the Scotiabank Centre???

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The most galling thing is the way some of these clueless councillors suddenly become experts on a subject once HRM decides to spend money on it. This week both Mason and Austin are suddenly instant experts on electric vehicles, both having long threads on FB about how HRM's upcoming $60 million purchase of new electric buses at $1 million each plus associated new infrastructure to keep them running (so far not costed) is the only one true way of providing Transit despite the many organizational and operational problems with the agency. It is mind-boggling how dismissive they are of citizens questioning the move. The arrogance is unreal.

Going to electric and hydrogen buses is a no brainer!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by fatscat

The one ideal thing about CFL-level grounds existing in Downtown is exactly that, it'll be downtown. So many mistakes made in the past with stadiums being out in the burbs.

FWIW I think expanding the Wanderers site makes a lot of sense and there is room for a decent-sized stadium there in the long run (if it really becomes a medium size stadium that's packed regularly then there will be willingness to make more adjustments). 15,000 is quite reasonable and would be no less affordable than some past HRM plans that were funded. It could be used by both the soccer team and CFL. It makes sense for the municipality to take the lead in developing the infrastructure on this public land. Even if the CFL never uses it, it would be worthwhile for special events. Halifax has 0 good outdoor event spaces with seating, permanent washrooms, etc.

I think the old plan for a Grey Cup scale stadium with a lot of amenities in Shannon Park was a bit of an albatross that actually made it less likely the city would get a stadium at all or that the stadium would work out if built. It introduced a bunch of extraneous dependencies and made it harder to see what the public sector funding role could be in the project.