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  #41  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2020, 9:44 PM
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I have nothing against Moncton and I think it will continue to develop successfully but it is 1/3 the size of Halifax and growing much more slowly. Halifax added about 10,000 people last year and Moncton added about 3,000. Do people always bring up Regina when discussing Edmonton's future development? It always struck me as though the Maritimes are in denial about having a primate city. And don't even talk about Atlantic Canada as a whole because that's really triggering.
1/3rd the size and about the same growth rate. That's pretty good.

Atlantic Canada is much like Northern ON. Point out to a Northerner that Sudbury has the same land area as the GTA and they balk at it.

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I'm of a similar opinion, as I don't see unfettered growth for the sake of growth as a good thing. IMHO, growth should happen more organically, but to be honest I'm happy with the size that it is currently. If I wanted to live in a big city I would have moved to one already.

So some may say that 'Halifax's small town mentality' is holding it back, but to counter that there are many who think that bigger is not always better. Everybody has a right to their opinions, of course.

That said, I'm all for bolstering our infrastructure for the eventuality that Halifax will continue to grow - like others have said, we should be planning decades in advance, not playing catch-up after the fact. In the long run, planning for the future is much more efficient than trying to make something work when it's already too late.

Cities grow. All of the major cities are larger than they were 10 years ago. That will continue.

This isn't about bigger being better, but it is more about being bigger and better, because bigger will happen. Better might not. Just imagine if a low cost house were to cost $1 million? That could happen without planning the growth to be better.

At what point is a city a "big city"?

Toronto is only 2.5 million, but within 100km of the CN tower, it is about 10 million. Imagine somewhere out to Bridgewater, Truro and Sheet Harbour full of people. I doubt that will happen. However, getting all of that out to 1 million might happen within a few decades. This is where a smart plan to prevent sprawl happening like it has in the GTA is a good idea.

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There are different perspectives. One broad class of perspectives comes from those who've already settled, and another comes from those who are looking for new places to live and opportunity.

Halifax stands out nationally as an affordable yet urban relocation option. It's one of a small number of places in Canada where a new major metro could develop, and it is by far the closest thing to a major city in the region. It makes sense to lean into this role a bit and be ambitious.

If you yearn for the smaller cities and towns or remote wilderness there's plenty of that to be found in NS or around Atlantic Canada. Or even just the parts of metro Halifax that are not likely to grow as much.
This is what many seem to forget. Halifax is an up and coming major city. East of Montreal, it is a major city.

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I don't deny the need to plan for the future. Halifax is going to grow--no doubt about it--and we definitely need to plan for that and put the investments in place. But I read the initial post as being, "how do we make 1,000,000 happen?" I don't see any need to strive for a particular population number, as if that's somehow a measure of our "success" as a city. Halifax fills a really good niche as it is.
I used that number as it is quite high but is realistic in the next 50-100 years. We have seen in place like Vancouver and Toronto how stupid plans have caused their housing to skyrocket and there really seems no end in sight. The goal is to discuss things that are missing in the city for it to grow and not see skyrocketing housing. It is also a way to look at existing transportation infrastructure and discuss what is missing that should be built now.

So, let's measure the success of Halifax by the cost of housing, the number of homeless, the number of working poor, and the overall livability of the city.

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I used to hear the "Halifax is a good size, not too large, not too small" thing back when it had around 300,000 people. Now people are saying the same thing around 450,000. I suspect people will say the same thing when it has 600,000.

In the same way Halifax always seems to be talked about like a small town by people who have Toronto in mind. But both Toronto and Halifax have grown. In an objective absolute sense Halifax is much bigger than it was decades ago. I wonder how much of this is just post hoc reasoning or sliding scales and people getting accustomed to whatever the norms of the day are.

I see a lot of neighbourhoods in Halifax as being underdeveloped with holes and low densities that don't allow for the level of amenities they had even in the 1950's, although a lot of that is reversing now. And there are a lot of things people want that the market size limits. Sports teams and big retailers being some examples. Meanwhile a lot of the residential areas are basically the same as they were decades ago; it's unclear how the quiet streets of houses will be ruined by growth.
When the city reaches 1 million residents, there will be those that feel it is a good size. When it hits 2 million, there will be some that think it is still a good size. Smart planning and smart construction of key infrastructure is what will keep it a "good size".

It is interesting, many that don't want the city to grow, likely still want things like a CFL team or an Ikea.

So, maybe the new thread name should become "what is needed so that an Ikea and a CFL team come to Halifax."
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  #42  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2020, 9:46 PM
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Halifax really is a great place to live and it seems more and more people are figuring this out and want to relocate here. It's also great to hear that this healthy growing city is holding the interest of and providing opportunity for our young people so that they no longer have to move on to establish their careers and lives elsewhere. Anyway, the consensus in this thread seems pretty strong on HRM not doing enough in regards to planning for future infrastructure needs. We all know that infrastructure costs $ so I suspect that the consensus would also be strong in terms of keeping our city fairly compact and economically serviceable. I suspect that it won't be too many more years in the future that the peninsula will be essentially full with little opportunity for new development...certainly much less opportunity than exists today. It's in the interest of minimizing infrastructure cost and in keeping our city's footprint reasonable in size that I want to toss out the idea of rezoning the lower portion of Burnside Industrial Park...above Windmill and well below Burnside Drive. I know that Burnside is a bit of a sacred cow and rightly so being that it is the largest employment centre east of Montreal and Boston. But ever since I first stood in the parking lot of the old Princess Auto some years back and took in the view of the basin, the bridges and the city's downtown beyond, I've thought it a shame that the area was not residential. There is perhaps an opportunity on the horizon with the completion of the Burnside Extension and the opening of new industrial lots to incent the relocation of just some of the existing businesses. The city did a good job of revamping Akerley Blvd. this past year but Wright Ave. is a right mess. Many of the older buildings in this area are little more than grossly inefficient tin builds of little substance and even less appeal. Perhaps rezoning is just not doable but in my mind it makes sense that the people should occupy the nice space and the industrial warehouses occupy the less desirable space. This area of Burnside, with some exceptions, seems to be mostly retail, restaurants and food stores along with innocuous small businesses already and would mix just fine with multi residential buildings. The street grid in this area may need to be tidied up but the road network is solid. The area is serviced.
Residential development in this area could also support LRT circling the basin and then crossing a twinned McKay or a newly built replacement for the existing McKay that would be built with LRT rails. And besides, I think it would look pretty awesome to see this hillside dotted with residential towers.
One thing people forget is that Halifax no longer is the peninsula. It is the entire area. That is part of the problem is the mindset.
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  #43  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2020, 9:47 PM
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Halifax has the port. Moncton has the railway.

In addition, Moncton is central to the Maritime region as a whole, and is located directly on the TCH next to the bottleneck of the Isthmus of Chignecto, and the narrowest part of the Northumberland Strait (where the ferries ran, and now where the Confederation Bridge is located).

In essence, it is location, location, location.

This has led Moncton to develop as a logistics, distribution and transportation centre for the region, as well as a retailing and commercial centre. It is also the primate Acadian city (which makes it the francophone version of Halifax).

The city has diversified recently into a banking and insurance centre and has strengths in education and healthcare with two tertiary care hospitals with affiliations to Dalhousie and the University of Sherbrooke.

Moncton is not really a rival to Halifax, but we will remain the yappy chihuahua nipping at the heels of the Great Dane of Halifax.
So, much like how Halifax was "just a port city" and has since grown from that, so too has Moncton grown from being "just a railway city"?
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  #44  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2020, 9:48 PM
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So, maybe the new thread name should become "what is needed so that an Ikea and a CFL team come to Halifax."
Halifax has an IKEA, and a provisional CFL franchise - just no stadium.
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  #45  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2020, 9:53 PM
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So, much like how Halifax was "just a port city" and has since grown from that, so too has Moncton grown from being "just a railway city"?
Indeed. In the late 1980s, there were over 7500 people in Moncton employed with CNR, mostly within the CNR shops (repair facility). The shops subsequently closed, giving the city a near death experience, but enlightened civic leaders backed by Premier Frank McKenna put the city on the road to diversification, and the city has not looked back.

CNR is still in Moncton. The regional HQ is here, as well as a large marshalling yard, but employment is in the hundreds, not the thousands. Instead, Moncton has about 5,000 people employed in the banking and insurance sector, and a broadly diversified economy in general. We are far better off now than when we had all our eggs in the CNR basket.
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  #46  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2020, 10:42 PM
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There are different perspectives. One broad class of perspectives comes from those who've already settled, and another comes from those who are looking for new places to live and opportunity.

Halifax stands out nationally as an affordable yet urban relocation option. It's one of a small number of places in Canada where a new major metro could develop, and it is by far the closest thing to a major city in the region. It makes sense to lean into this role a bit and be ambitious.
Absolutely agree, although paradoxically your statement seems to infer that Halifax would be the perfect place to relocate to if it were a little more like those places that people want to leave.

My reaction to the OP's original post is somewhat due to the perceived notion that Halifax isn't somehow a "real" city, or great place to live, unless it has "X" population, or buildings of "Y" storeys, etc. etc.... as if Halifax will never be good enough to compare to larger cities unless it has some sort of desired characteristic that also seems to be a moving target. I just wanted to bolster the idea that for some it's already pretty good, just the way it is... and that there are options in other parts of Canada for those who desire bigger and better.

There's no disputing that Halifax is growing, and will continue to grow. And that it's a good idea to improve infrastructure before it's needed, but that's already been covered.

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If you yearn for the smaller cities and towns or remote wilderness there's plenty of that to be found in NS or around Atlantic Canada. Or even just the parts of metro Halifax that are not likely to grow as much.
One pleasing aspect of Halifax, to me, is that all of those things are available within an hour's drive, when you desire to experience them. Otherwise you can enjoy the urban aspects of the city without the traffic and logistical issues of, say, Toronto or Vancouver. But that's why I live here and not there.
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  #47  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2020, 10:52 PM
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Cities grow. All of the major cities are larger than they were 10 years ago. That will continue.

This isn't about bigger being better, but it is more about being bigger and better, because bigger will happen. Better might not. Just imagine if a low cost house were to cost $1 million? That could happen without planning the growth to be better.
Agree. As mentioned, improvements in infrastructure should be planned well in advance of critical need. However, the idea of building infrastructure to reach some sort of population target is the idea that I don't agree with so much. This has been covered in the thread already.

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At what point is a city a "big city"?

Toronto is only 2.5 million, but within 100km of the CN tower, it is about 10 million. Imagine somewhere out to Bridgewater, Truro and Sheet Harbour full of people. I doubt that will happen. However, getting all of that out to 1 million might happen within a few decades. This is where a smart plan to prevent sprawl happening like it has in the GTA is a good idea.
A "big city" can mean many things to many people. IMHO, the salient point is that Halifax is not a "big city", but there seems to be the idea that it will only be good when it is a "big city". And that's fine for those who think that way - I'm simply stating that I do not. And that's OK too.

For me, the idea of Halifax encompassing Bridgewater, Truro, and Sheet Harbour is not desirable. This would "spoil" the Nova Scotia that I know and love, but conversely it would be a mecca to some. I have no control over that, but at least I know that I won't live long enough to see it, so it's a moot point to me.
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  #48  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2020, 12:27 AM
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Absolutely agree, although paradoxically your statement seems to infer that Halifax would be the perfect place to relocate to if it were a little more like those places that people want to leave.

My reaction to the OP's original post is somewhat due to the perceived notion that Halifax isn't somehow a "real" city, or great place to live, unless it has "X" population, or buildings of "Y" storeys, etc. etc.... as if Halifax will never be good enough to compare to larger cities unless it has some sort of desired characteristic that also seems to be a moving target. I just wanted to bolster the idea that for some it's already pretty good, just the way it is... and that there are options in other parts of Canada for those who desire bigger and better.

There's no disputing that Halifax is growing, and will continue to grow. And that it's a good idea to improve infrastructure before it's needed, but that's already been covered.
Perception is everything. I would like to apologize if you think that I was saying that Halifax isn't a real city. I am talking about how to build and plan so that the city can continue to grow and not feel like Toronto. Toronto is what happens when planning is done in a patchwork style. When the City of Toronto has a plan and North York does something different, and Scarborough has a totally different plan, and Etobicoke doesn't even want to consider any of them, you end up with the mess now. Prior to the RM of Halifax, and now the city of Halifax being formed, that is what you had. Fortunately, the population is low enough that now, as it grows, it can be in a good way and not just sprawl as far as the eye can see.

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One pleasing aspect of Halifax, to me, is that all of those things are available within an hour's drive, when you desire to experience them. Otherwise you can enjoy the urban aspects of the city without the traffic and logistical issues of, say, Toronto or Vancouver. But that's why I live here and not there.
Vancouver is a horrible example. Toronto, I agree, not too much within an hour drive. Vancouver and Halifax are closer to each other in recreation being close by. For example, the Grouse Grind is a well know hiking trail and it can be reached on a city bus. Same for skiing and diving. Toronto isn't horrible, but is is definitely a good example of what to plan Not to do.


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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Agree. As mentioned, improvements in infrastructure should be planned well in advance of critical need. However, the idea of building infrastructure to reach some sort of population target is the idea that I don't agree with so much. This has been covered in the thread already.
It is not to reach it. It is more of what is needed to support it. What key infrastructure is 'missing' that already causes problems that if it were added, or done differently, could improve the known choke points?

So, looking at the OP, would you agree those are needed now? That those things are causing unnecessary traffic congestion?

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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
A "big city" can mean many things to many people. IMHO, the salient point is that Halifax is not a "big city", but there seems to be the idea that it will only be good when it is a "big city". And that's fine for those who think that way - I'm simply stating that I do not. And that's OK too.

For me, the idea of Halifax encompassing Bridgewater, Truro, and Sheet Harbour is not desirable. This would "spoil" the Nova Scotia that I know and love, but conversely it would be a mecca to some. I have no control over that, but at least I know that I won't live long enough to see it, so it's a moot point to me.
Halifax is a great city. The one bad thing about it is the crazy amount of congestion for a city of it's size. Do you love the congestion that Halifax has?
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  #49  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2020, 1:50 AM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
A "big city" can mean many things to many people. IMHO, the salient point is that Halifax is not a "big city", but there seems to be the idea that it will only be good when it is a "big city". And that's fine for those who think that way - I'm simply stating that I do not. And that's OK too.

For me, the idea of Halifax encompassing Bridgewater, Truro, and Sheet Harbour is not desirable. This would "spoil" the Nova Scotia that I know and love, but conversely it would be a mecca to some. I have no control over that, but at least I know that I won't live long enough to see it, so it's a moot point to me.
Being a Skyscraper forum, I think many in the crowd naturally gravitate towards anything "Bigger": Bigger buildings, bigger roads, bigger transit & bike lane networks, bigger populations, bigger urban areas and so on...I agree that bigger can be better, but I find there's too much focus on the "biggest" and a lack of discussion on finding the happy medium. Perhaps some of these areas would improve the city's standing, but there are plenty of cities in the world of over a million people no one bats an eye to. The real question should be: What could make Halifax a desireable place for 1 million people, and what would actually improve the quality of life?

A lot of this discussion is based on speculation, but I suppose it's healthy and fun to let the imagination run wild. This thread is like a christmas wishlist in my eyes.
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  #50  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2020, 1:58 AM
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Halifax is a great city. The one bad thing about it is the crazy amount of congestion for a city of it's size. Do you love the congestion that Halifax has?
No one loves traffic congestion. What I do love is to think about whether the solutions presented would be the best options for solving the problem.
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  #51  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2020, 2:01 AM
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Absolutely agree, although paradoxically your statement seems to infer that Halifax would be the perfect place to relocate to if it were a little more like those places that people want to leave.
I would not frame this as people fleeing other places and getting pushed to relocate to Halifax as a kind of backup. What's best for individuals depends on a bunch of preferences and even aesthetic concerns. In the overall mix of Canadian cities, Halifax adds something different; no other city is really all that similar.

When people are frustrated with Toronto or Vancouver it's usually because of problems like bad traffic and affordability (both related; people who can't afford housing get pushed farther out). I don't see this as strictly a question of city size but rather size relative to infrastructure and land supply. The US is full of large, affordable cities like Atlanta or Dallas, and there are small cities like Victoria that are much more expensive than Halifax.

Halifax is really quite well-positioned for potential development. It has plentiful land that is not used for agriculture, it has good infrastructure like a major airport and highways, it has tons of waterfront. Very different from say here in Vancouver where the choices of where to build are either ocean, mountain, or scarce farmland.
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  #52  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2020, 2:55 AM
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Being a Skyscraper forum, I think many in the crowd naturally gravitate towards anything "Bigger": Bigger buildings, bigger roads, bigger transit & bike lane networks, bigger populations, bigger urban areas and so on...I agree that bigger can be better, but I find there's too much focus on the "biggest" and a lack of discussion on finding the happy medium. Perhaps some of these areas would improve the city's standing, but there are plenty of cities in the world of over a million people no one bats an eye to. The real question should be: What could make Halifax a desireable place for 1 million people, and what would actually improve the quality of life?

A lot of this discussion is based on speculation, but I suppose it's healthy and fun to let the imagination run wild. This thread is like a christmas wishlist in my eyes.
Well, when I was a kid, I had lots on my list, and got some of it. What would be on your Halifax wish list? What could improve the city now, and be great as it grows?

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No one loves traffic congestion. What I do love is to think about whether the solutions presented would be the best options for solving the problem.
Would they?

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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I would not frame this as people fleeing other places and getting pushed to relocate to Halifax as a kind of backup. What's best for individuals depends on a bunch of preferences and even aesthetic concerns. In the overall mix of Canadian cities, Halifax adds something different; no other city is really all that similar.

When people are frustrated with Toronto or Vancouver it's usually because of problems like bad traffic and affordability (both related; people who can't afford housing get pushed farther out). I don't see this as strictly a question of city size but rather size relative to infrastructure and land supply. The US is full of large, affordable cities like Atlanta or Dallas, and there are small cities like Victoria that are much more expensive than Halifax.

Halifax is really quite well-positioned for potential development. It has plentiful land that is not used for agriculture, it has good infrastructure like a major airport and highways, it has tons of waterfront. Very different from say here in Vancouver where the choices of where to build are either ocean, mountain, or scarce farmland.
When you look at all the other major cities, Halifax is an interesting oddity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ions_in_Canada

Lets look at some that are close to the same population:
1) K/W - Surrounded by farmland and basically a suburb of Toronto.
2) Hamilton - A lake, a mountain and farmland constraints its growth.
3) London - Surrounded by farmland.
4) St Catherines and Niagara - Prime fruit farm in Canada.
5) Oshawa - Major employer has shut down.
6) Victoria - Ocean and mountains make it horrendously expensive to live there.
7) Windsor - The lake on one side, prime farmland surround it.
8) Saskatoon - Surrounded by prime farmland.

The things that seem to slow growth are farmland, mountains, and water . Halifax is free from farmland near it's core. Halifax's terrain isn't overly challenging to build on. The ocean will prevent growth in that direction, but there is enough land to have growth fan out and have the ocean as a anchor for the city.

Halifax is ideal to grow compared with other cities of the same current size. The key is to do it in such a way that it is done smartly.
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  #53  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2020, 12:29 PM
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Whaat I would like to see is not so much satellite downtowns, but moreso density in the suburbs that allows for residents to do the things they would want to do in a day or week within their neighbourhood, on foot. This, instead of driving into the peninsula or all over their suburb.

I've lived in a city like this - I was very near the edge of the built-up city, but I had two grocery stores, dozens of restaurants and more services than I personally needed within a 15-minute walk. Anywhere else in down was at most a 30-minute bus or subway ride.

While Halifax isn't Korea, I think lots of people, myself included, would be fine living further out if it meant we could more or less keep our 'on foot' lifestyle and have that urban neighbourhood feel.
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  #54  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2020, 1:05 PM
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Moncton is not really a rival to Halifax, but we will remain the yappy chihuahua nipping at the heels of the Great Dane of Halifax.

I used to regard Moncton as a competitor, but now I really believe that Moncton complements Halifax. It contributes to the growth of the region and what should be considered a growth corridor.

I’m willing to bet that it played an important reason as to why we got an Ikea as well as other large city stores.
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  #55  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2020, 1:23 PM
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No one loves traffic congestion. What I do love is to think about whether the solutions presented would be the best options for solving the problem.
Your comment "What I do love is to think about whether the solutions presented would be the best options for solving the problem" is intriguing. Well, let me tell you my story of visiting DT Halifax on Friday morning.

I avoid DT at all costs these days. It is helpful that I usually no longer have any need to go there most of the time. But on Friday I had some business that meant I had to go DT for the first time in months.

It was the morning after our first significant snowfall of the season, mid-morning on the last full week of business before Christmas, so I expected potential pandemonium. What I saw was very interesting. Traffic was virtually nil in most places mid-morning. Downtown seemed, if not quite dead, at least on life support. The only congestion I saw was on Hollis St where the interchange transitions into the old street. That part seemed unchanged as it has always been so there. Container trucks in stop and crawl mode, grappling with the narrow street. Vehicles trying to squeeze past other vehicles. The usual situation that has been the norm for decades. But this time was different.

It has been changed recently, and the overnight snow highlighted it starkly. Now, the 3-lane Hollis St is supposedly 2 travel lanes, one rightmost bike lane, and zero in the way of parking or turning lanes. In yesterday's case the two vehicle lanes to the left and in the center were damp but clear blacktop. The rightmost lane was the bike lane and was filled with untouched snow. Of course there was nary a bicycle in sight.

No doubt the planners will be thinking, "we need to fix that so the bike lane gets cleared". What they really need to think about though is the reality of what they created. Because despite their best efforts, Hollis St is still very much a business street, with office buildings and commercial tenants trying to go about their day. And this is where the arse comes out of the planning theory.

With the "protected" but otherwise unusable and useless bike lane completely out of the equation, those trying to go about their business are forced to resort to the left-most lane. Trying to drop off or pick up a passenger? You have to stop in that lane. Making a delivery or picking up up a parcel? Same. A courier delivering important papers? You know the drill. This time it had the extra added attraction of those people who stopped in the left lane to do their business having to run across the street, hopefully avoiding the container trucks, hurdle the bike lane protective curbing buried under the snow, and then wade though 8 inches of uncleared frozen precip if they needed to enter a building on the west side of the street. All the way down Hollis was a constant series of interruptions to the movement of vehicles because of normal obstacle-creating activities one expects to find in a city's downtown, but now with no way for traffic to get around them easily and quickly. Meanwhile the abandoned and neglected bike lane sits there in its white coat of snow sticking out like a very sore thumb. Only 2/3rds of an already too-narrow ROW is being used.

Now you are no doubt thinking "Oh, there's Keith ranting about bike lanes again" but this really isn't that. The bike lane argument is settled based on what I saw yesterday. It is sheer and utter folly. Nobody can deny that. Perhaps on a nice day in September when it is not too hot and not too cold and not too wet and not too snowy there might be a few bikes using it. But the operative word here is "few". Compared to the other demands being placed on a street like Hollis it is well, well down the list of priorities. It is the only way southbound truck traffic can reach the container pier. It is the street upon which the seat of govt and many office buildings are found. It is the main southbound corridor for the entire downtown. And our city leaders have kneecapped it for what can only be seen as a philosophical statement instead of what is a good and practical solution that serves the broader needs of the city.

Incidentally when I had to leave I needed to use Water St for that and that experience was almost as bad. There were a series of new-to-me green and white striped posts along the right side which I assume are also a bike lane of a different type, although again it was mostly snow-covered and bereft of activity. The street itself is now mostly a single lane northbound. You can imagine how it would be on a typical day. Because of the pandemic I presume, traffic was at least manageable and I was able to get out without dealing with the typical gridlock. But the same argument would apply if it was a normal day.

So if Council and HRM bureaucrats are truly interested in answering the question of "whether the solutions presented would be the best options for solving the problem", the first answer should be "I have seen the enemy, and it is us".
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  #56  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2020, 1:32 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Whaat I would like to see is not so much satellite downtowns, but moreso density in the suburbs that allows for residents to do the things they would want to do in a day or week within their neighbourhood, on foot. This, instead of driving into the peninsula or all over their suburb.
Absolutely. There’s no reason at all why Bedford shouldn’t be able to easily develop more of a “downtown” type main drag along the waterfront/Bedford Highway. The fact that it hasn’t kind of seems like a testament to a lack of vision.

The Dutch Village Road area also has potential to develop in this direction—I don’t know if there’s any intentional planning at the municipal level to accomplish this, but the organic growth is going that way (albeit in a mish-mashy way that could use more direction). It’s a little unfortunate that the street isn’t a bit farther out and more central within Fairview/Clayton Park.

Less obviously, the gridded, easily intensified nature of the eastern Dartmouth/Cole Harbour suburbs means there’s lots of potential there, especially adjacent to Main Street between NSCC Akerley and the 111, and maybe out on Cole Harbour Road. But that would also require a shift to more mass transit, etc., since any changes that reduce traffic flow would be challenging, given how the streets functions as traffic sewers. Would require some pretty significant zoning changes, as well, to transform them from a stroad into real city streets. Still, it’s doable with the existing street layouts, which is the biggest hurdle.
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  #57  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2020, 3:06 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Perception is everything. I would like to apologize if you think that I was saying that Halifax isn't a real city. I am talking about how to build and plan so that the city can continue to grow and not feel like Toronto. Toronto is what happens when planning is done in a patchwork style. When the City of Toronto has a plan and North York does something different, and Scarborough has a totally different plan, and Etobicoke doesn't even want to consider any of them, you end up with the mess now. Prior to the RM of Halifax, and now the city of Halifax being formed, that is what you had. Fortunately, the population is low enough that now, as it grows, it can be in a good way and not just sprawl as far as the eye can see.
Actually, no need to apologize. If anything I should apologize to you for going off on one of my usual tangents. I agree, and have stated that, Halifax planning should be much better than it has been. If you look back at some of the old Halifax photo threads in this forum, you will see that there was a point where Halifax had no problem taking on some very large infrastructure projects (like the rail cut, for example) that have paid off time and time again over the decades. Halifax planning lost its mojo somewhere along the line and it needs to get it back.

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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
Vancouver is a horrible example. Toronto, I agree, not too much within an hour drive. Vancouver and Halifax are closer to each other in recreation being close by. For example, the Grouse Grind is a well know hiking trail and it can be reached on a city bus. Same for skiing and diving. Toronto isn't horrible, but is is definitely a good example of what to plan Not to do.
I have to admit that I don't know Vancouver very well. When I was there I found the traffic situation to be not very good, such as the congestion for the Lion's Gate Bridge, and the ferry situation to get to Vancouver Island. So it may not be such a great example, but I didn't find myself wishing that I lived there.


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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
It is not to reach it. It is more of what is needed to support it. What key infrastructure is 'missing' that already causes problems that if it were added, or done differently, could improve the known choke points?

So, looking at the OP, would you agree those are needed now? That those things are causing unnecessary traffic congestion?
I've agreed all along with this.

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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
Halifax is a great city. The one bad thing about it is the crazy amount of congestion for a city of it's size. Do you love the congestion that Halifax has?
I don't love any traffic congestion, but compared to other cities I've visited, Halifax isn't really bad. There's always room for improvement, and as I've stated we should be planning decades in advance to accommodate future population growth.

My first response was to the idea that 1 million people living in Halifax was some sort of optimal goal that we should strive for, but I realize that wasn't the intent of your original post.
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  #58  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2020, 3:09 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Being a Skyscraper forum, I think many in the crowd naturally gravitate towards anything "Bigger": Bigger buildings, bigger roads, bigger transit & bike lane networks, bigger populations, bigger urban areas and so on...I agree that bigger can be better, but I find there's too much focus on the "biggest" and a lack of discussion on finding the happy medium. Perhaps some of these areas would improve the city's standing, but there are plenty of cities in the world of over a million people no one bats an eye to. The real question should be: What could make Halifax a desireable place for 1 million people, and what would actually improve the quality of life?

A lot of this discussion is based on speculation, but I suppose it's healthy and fun to let the imagination run wild. This thread is like a christmas wishlist in my eyes.
I agree, and just felt like pointing out that nuances are important as well. Being bigger has its advantages, but also its sacrifices. I don't find that people focus much on what can be lost in our efforts to become 'bigger and better'.

I've enjoyed the discussion in this thread - the exchange of ideas has been fun to read.
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  #59  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2020, 3:11 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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I would not frame this as people fleeing other places and getting pushed to relocate to Halifax as a kind of backup. What's best for individuals depends on a bunch of preferences and even aesthetic concerns. In the overall mix of Canadian cities, Halifax adds something different; no other city is really all that similar.

When people are frustrated with Toronto or Vancouver it's usually because of problems like bad traffic and affordability (both related; people who can't afford housing get pushed farther out). I don't see this as strictly a question of city size but rather size relative to infrastructure and land supply. The US is full of large, affordable cities like Atlanta or Dallas, and there are small cities like Victoria that are much more expensive than Halifax.

Halifax is really quite well-positioned for potential development. It has plentiful land that is not used for agriculture, it has good infrastructure like a major airport and highways, it has tons of waterfront. Very different from say here in Vancouver where the choices of where to build are either ocean, mountain, or scarce farmland.
Good points. You know I was playing devil's advocate with that statement...
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  #60  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2020, 3:24 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Drybrain View Post
Absolutely. There’s no reason at all why Bedford shouldn’t be able to easily develop more of a “downtown” type main drag along the waterfront/Bedford Highway. The fact that it hasn’t kind of seems like a testament to a lack of vision.

The Dutch Village Road area also has potential to develop in this direction—I don’t know if there’s any intentional planning at the municipal level to accomplish this, but the organic growth is going that way (albeit in a mish-mashy way that could use more direction). It’s a little unfortunate that the street isn’t a bit farther out and more central within Fairview/Clayton Park.

Less obviously, the gridded, easily intensified nature of the eastern Dartmouth/Cole Harbour suburbs means there’s lots of potential there, especially adjacent to Main Street between NSCC Akerley and the 111, and maybe out on Cole Harbour Road. But that would also require a shift to more mass transit, etc., since any changes that reduce traffic flow would be challenging, given how the streets functions as traffic sewers. Would require some pretty significant zoning changes, as well, to transform them from a stroad into real city streets. Still, it’s doable with the existing street layouts, which is the biggest hurdle.
Agree with your points, but I will say that Bedford currently is always busy traffic-wise - I suspect mostly because of people commuting between Halifax and Sackville/Dartmouth/points north and west. If you look at traffic on Google maps throughout any weekday, you will see that Bedford is always slow, which will probably be worse once the new bus-only lanes are added.

So, in the spirit of this thread, if Bedford is developed to be a 'downtown-ish' area, there will need to be some infrastructure planning in advance.
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