PHILADELPHIA | 2222 Market Street| 282 FT | 20 FLOORS - Page 28

TK2001 · #**541** Posted **Feb 13, 2023, 4:11 PM**

I think we're only going to see lighting where the wooden panels are on the ceilings of the overhangs. You can see lights above the west terrace

summersm343 · #**542** Posted **Feb 18, 2023, 4:47 PM**

YIMBY Shares Additional Views Of 2222 Market Street

Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2023/02/yimb...city-west.html

thoughtcriminal · #**543** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 7:33 PM**

Meanwhile, the deal to sell and redevelop the building that formerly held Morgan Lewis Bockius firm has fallen through.
No bueno.
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s
Philadelphia-based Alterra went under contract on the Center City property in the fall, Alterra Managing Partner Leo Addimando said. The company terminated the contract three weeks ago, said Addimando, citing rising development costs.

The 305,170-square-foot, 18-story building has been the longtime Morgan Lewis & Bockius headquarters. The law firm is vacating the entire property and moving to a new 19-story building at 2222 Market St. in late summer or fall.

Addimando declined to say how much Alterra agreed to pay for the building. The deal fell through, Addimando said, because the cost of the property, cost of construction and projected apartment rents no longer added up to a financially viable project.

TempleGuy1000 · #**544** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 9:36 PM**

Sh%t, that's not good.

chimpskibot · #**545** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 9:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

Meanwhile, the deal to sell and redevelop the building that formerly held Morgan Lewis Bockius firm has fallen through.
No bueno.
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s
Philadelphia-based Alterra went under contract on the Center City property in the fall, Alterra Managing Partner Leo Addimando said. The company terminated the contract three weeks ago, said Addimando, citing rising development costs.

The 305,170-square-foot, 18-story building has been the longtime Morgan Lewis & Bockius headquarters. The law firm is vacating the entire property and moving to a new 19-story building at 2222 Market St. in late summer or fall.

Addimando declined to say how much Alterra agreed to pay for the building. The deal fell through, Addimando said, because the cost of the property, cost of construction and projected apartment rents no longer added up to a financially viable project.

Office Conversion to apt really only makes sense in places like LA, NYC, SF where Price per SQF is so high and demand way outstrips supply. Philly still has empty lots in CC. The cost of conversion is probably on-par with demolition and redevelopment of the lot. On top of that office floorplates end up with really odd floorplans and mainly larger units which are definitely not in-trend at the moment.

mcgrath618 · #**546** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 9:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

Office Conversion to apt really only makes sense in places like LA, NYC, SF where Price per SQF is so high and demand way outstrips supply. Philly still has empty lots in CC. The cost of conversion is probably on-par with demolition and redevelopment of the lot. On top of that office floorplates end up with really odd floorplans and mainly larger units which are definitely not in-trend at the moment.

Agreed.
I actually think this is a good thing. The building can be torn down, and the lot redeveloped into something much taller with enough units to offset the cost of construction.

PurpleWhiteOut · #**547** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 10:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

Office Conversion to apt really only makes sense in places like LA, NYC, SF where Price per SQF is so high and demand way outstrips supply. Philly still has empty lots in CC. The cost of conversion is probably on-par with demolition and redevelopment of the lot. On top of that office floorplates end up with really odd floorplans and mainly larger units which are definitely not in-trend at the moment.

I can't be the only one who also thinks it's a good thing for the city overall to continue to have office space too, right? Should the work from home trends continue to reverse, I'd like us to still have office space available to potentially reabsorb demand. We don't necessarily want a total bedroom community in place of our CBD because many people still need a place to work. We already have a large residential component compared to most downtowns so it's not necessarily needed.

I'd like to see more creative commercial uses. I'd like to see more targeting for jobs that need large spaces and in person environments. In Philly we have very few large lots and few buildings with large floor plates, so I think it wouldn't be wise to throw them away. Obviously we've seen the surge in life sciences, but not sure how much more is needed

DeltaNerd · #**548** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 10:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Agreed.
I actually think this is a good thing. The building can be torn down, and the lot redeveloped into something much taller with enough units to offset the cost of construction.

Comcast Tower #3 or some company from the suburbs who wants to locate in Center City. Mix use tower

TempleGuy1000 · #**549** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 10:03 PM**

That building isn't going to be tore down. It's going to sit vacate for who knows how long.

iheartphilly · #**550** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 10:32 PM**

Not sure if Comcast tower #3 will come to fruition for the foreseeable future. They just put up as a sublease on 140k square foot in Three Logan Square.

PHLtoNYC · #**551** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 10:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Agreed.
I actually think this is a good thing. The building can be torn down, and the lot redeveloped into something much taller with enough units to offset the cost of construction.

Dismantling a high-rise and constructing a new one is extremely expensive. And unfortunately, I don't see the numbers working in Philadelphia, that is more of a Manhattan practice.

I was hoping Alterra would re-skin and add 10-20 floors. Maybe they would rather focus their efforts on more lucrative projects?

But I am still hopeful another entity will transform the building into lab space or a residential conversion similar to 2040 Market.

PHLtoNYC · #**552** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 11:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

Office Conversion to apt really only makes sense in places like LA, NYC, SF where Price per SQF is so high and demand way outstrips supply. Philly still has empty lots in CC. The cost of conversion is probably on-par with demolition and redevelopment of the lot. On top of that office floorplates end up with really odd floorplans and mainly larger units which are definitely not in-trend at the moment.

I agree about the issue of nearby lots and large floorplates, but doesn't Philadelphia lead the nation in residential conversions of office, warehouse, worship spaces? I know Chicago and DC are up there.

Maybe in 2023 dollars it's not as feasible?

skyhigh07 · #**553** Posted **Feb 22, 2023, 11:17 PM**

I don’t know if this means much for the broader local market going forward. The Philly residential bottomed out late last year but activity is picking up and normalizing. Alterra just might have felt the timing and deal weren’t making sense.

McBane · #**554** Posted **Feb 23, 2023, 2:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I agree about the issue of nearby lots and large floorplates, but doesn't Philadelphia lead the nation in residential conversions of office, warehouse, worship spaces? I know Chicago and DC are up there.

Maybe in 2023 dollars it's not as feasible?

Yes and I feel those conversions were more successful with those beautiful older buildings than newer ones but that could just be perception. I'm not sure how well 2 Liberty has done. And this building in particular is boring af. But hey look at what they did to that boring box on Vine, they made it work and 17th and Market is a much better location.

chimpskibot · #**555** Posted **Feb 23, 2023, 1:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I agree about the issue of nearby lots and large floorplates, but doesn't Philadelphia lead the nation in residential conversions of office, warehouse, worship spaces? I know Chicago and DC are up there.

Maybe in 2023 dollars it's not as feasible?

I think Philly leads the nation in adaptive re-use and maybe some conversion (warehouse/churches/Industrial space), but NYC, CHI, DC definitely have way more office to residential conversion.

SEFTA · #**556** Posted **Feb 24, 2023, 4:40 AM**

reminder;
200 North 16th Street -Franklin Tower Conversion

and aren't they planning another on Market at PENN SQUARE?

200 North 16th Street -Franklin Tower Conversion

TempleGuy1000 · #**557** Posted **Feb 24, 2023, 3:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEFTA

reminder;
200 North 16th Street -Franklin Tower Conversion

and aren't they planning another on Market at PENN SQUARE?

Is there a different one? The building we were talking about is 1701 Market or otherwise known as Six Penn Center

SEFTA · #**558** Posted **Feb 24, 2023, 7:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Is there a different one? The building we were talking about is 1701 Market or otherwise known as Six Penn Center

Just an example of office tower conversions here.
I think it turned out pretty well.

McBane · #**559** Posted **Feb 24, 2023, 7:35 PM**

Yes, the Franklin or whatever is the best comp to this project. A boring glass 80's office bo that lacks the grandeur of older office building conversions.

3rd&Brown · #**560** Posted **Feb 24, 2023, 7:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Sh%t, that's not good.

I think it's great.

If ever there were a location where we demo an entire existing office building which has outlived it's useful life to put something up bigger and better, this is the spot.

It's not a big complicated or historic building. It's an A+ location.

It should be a 50 story mixed use office, hotel, residential building.