The Great SSP Canada Cancel Culture & Wokeism Thread

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by vid

I'd give my take on this but it's not politically correct to say it. I can't take this place very seriously anymore though, some people are putting way, way, way too much brainpower into this discussion. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. I'd rather do chores (such as cleaning dishes) than try to discuss "wokeism" on this site. But I do enjoy making fun of the stupidity! When you're waging a war against straw men, a lot of the moves you make are pretty comical.

I’ve seen accusations of being “woke” predictably thrown around about an art gallery, or discussions on gentrification. It just seems like a very out-of-principle way to counter another’s point. For that reason I sometimes feel “anti-wokeism” has the same effects on the development discussion as extreme political correctness; just another crowd filled with anger.

I’ve witnessed these kinds of discussions disrupting family get-togethers, so I guess for some any forum is sadly better than the dinner table.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

I’ve seen accusations of being “woke” predictably thrown around about an art gallery, or discussions on gentrification. It just seems like a very out-of-principle way to counter another’s point. For that reason I sometimes feel “anti-wokeism” has the same effects on the development discussion as extreme political correctness; just another crowd filled with anger.

You could say the same thing about "alt-right". Both terms have some cultural connotations and can be wielded as slurs that are meant to disparage a person or policy without much nuance. But then again there are extremist far-right and white nationalist leaning folks out there, as there are left-leaning people who promote extreme policies.

If you dig deeper there are cultural undercurrents here that can be analyzed like anything else. Helen Pluckrose is an example of somebody who provides calm analysis of stuff that fits under the "woke" umbrella. One example of how somebody might talk about so-called wokeness and not be a crazy uncle at the family dinner table.

My political leanings are more in the centrist to left-leaning area I'd say but I don't think we should shut our brains off whenever policies are proposed that have a social justice angle to them. They should be analyzed objectively and with nuance, and they can be flawed. Unfortunately the cost of that seems often seems to be personal attacks and smearing. It's no mystery why this has caused so much division and animus.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by vid

I'd rather do chores (such as cleaning dishes) than try to discuss "wokeism" on this site.

I think we got that by about the twentieth time you appeared in this thread to denounce all and sundry and declare it beneath you.

But by all means, keep on reminding us.

[lio45]

That would be one of the enjoyable aspects of being in a relationship with vid: the fair division of labor in the couple (he always does all the dishes, I handle all the replying in the SSP Woketarianism thread.)

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by dleung

Perhaps it's cathartic for incels enduring a lonely Christmas to rant about "woketarians" ruining their lives

It's funny how this thread has the same players from the "racism in Canada" thread. I guess it was getting weird for them to be constantly going "yes i know this thread is about racism but I'm more worried about the bigger problem of ANTI-racism" lol

I'm glad you wrote this. I've hoped (and asked once before) that since this is meant primarily as a forum for skyscrapers and infrastructure, and not as a political subreddit, that we tone down the number of these threads.

Every couple of weeks it seems there's always another Acajack post that's like "Why can't Anglo Canadian popular culture stop espousing the view that we shouldn't be mean to certain groups of people?"
It's honestly embarrassing, and I don't understand why these forumers don't just discuss these questions on political forums.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

Every couple of weeks it seems there's always another Acajack post that's like "Why can't Anglo Canadian popular culture .

Funny you should support the personal witch hunting and name calling with this example, as I am quite infamous on here for denying that Anglo Canadian popular culture even exists.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I think we got that by about the twentieth time you appeared in this thread to denounce all and sundry and declare it beneath you.

But by all means, keep on reminding us.

Though if he wanted to put forth more actual arguments instead of just doing drive-by shootings... that would be great.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Lol. dleung's level of debate doesn't even belong in the same sentence as barrels, it's that far from "just" scraping the bottom. There's nothing left to lower at this point.

BTW, you're the only one whose relationship status I don't know; I wouldn't be surprised if dleung was the most incel of all of us who were mentioned by name. I've been with my significant other for 7 years and counting and I'm pretty sure that's the lowest figure among the other three of us (Acajack, rousseau, me).

Not sure how anyone's relationship status is relevant, anyway.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

the view that we shouldn't be mean to certain groups of people?".

I believe what is being discussed is what constitutes being mean to people, and also how the definition of that has a lot of changeability these days (often weekly or even daily).

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Funny you should support the personal witch hunting and name calling with this example, as I am quite infamous on here for denying that Anglo Canadian popular culture even exists.

That was funny.

[Acajack]

I thought this was interesting in the context of this thread.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mos...ential-values/

[esquire]

Originally Posted by lio45

That's Coldrsx? That sucks for him. I'm 100% on his side. (And I agree with Acajack on doxxing him, not sure about that.)

On a related note, I'm grateful that I'm independently wealthy and my own boss: All Lives Matter

I get that it's been coopted by "bad guys" and all that, but it will never stop being weird to me that this seemingly innocuous sentiment, which appears about as inclusive as you can get, is considered edgy or even outright hateful. That will be a tough one to explain to the grandchildren someday.

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by vid

Case in point: Coldrsx actually got cancelled and he has posted exactly... not once in this discussion.

Why would he resign? Did someone put a gun to his head? Was he going to get beaten up?

The point of threads like this is show how silly it all is yet the only way it goes away is if people mock and ridicule these clowns who bully and dox people and use their tactics against them. Just literally say 'no' and get on with your life. If they persist then throw their garbage right back at them and stand your ground.

[Acajack]

Sometimes the choice is between resigning and getting fired.

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sometimes the choice is between resigning and getting fired.

Precisely. So what could he have been 'fired' for? Some nobodies being offended on twitter? Did he break any laws? Did he steal public money? If not stand your ground. If you are fired without cause it is grounds for a lawsuit. I'm sure the board would have found it easier to practice radio silence for 2 days until everybody forgot about the whole thing in the first place and moved on.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Antigonish

Precisely. So what could he have been 'fired' for? Some nobodies being offended on twitter? Did he break any laws? Did he steal public money? If not stand your ground. If you are fired without cause it is grounds for a lawsuit. I'm sure the board would have found it easier to practice radio silence for 2 days until everybody forgot about the whole thing in the first place and moved on.

Unless you are a union member (less and less common in Canada), wrongful dismissal cases typically go nowhere to the point where most don't even bother anymore.

And people who run organizations like this BIA are more often than not hired on contract, which can be terminated at any time.

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Unless you are a union member (less and less common in Canada), wrongful dismissal cases typically go nowhere to the point where most don't even bother anymore.

And people who run organizations like this BIA are more often than not hired on contract, which can be terminated at any time.

Fair enough. I guess it isn't worth the hassle in the end.

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Funny you should support the personal witch hunting and name calling with this example, as I am quite infamous on here for denying that Anglo Canadian popular culture even exists.

Well I mean, you do create all these political threads on a skyscraper forum, so I don't think it's "witch hunting", it's just "facts".

Re: the Anglo Canadian culture point, my feeling is that Anglo Canadian culture is mostly a series of brand loyalties to coffee chains and mattress jingles, and Quebecois culture is mostly a series of brand loyalties to rotisserie chicken chains and shitty campfire music bands.

As any true Montrealer, I am a Montrealer first and last, bilingual (French at home though) and I don't really care about the rest of Quebec (the ROQ) or what goes on there because it just has so little impact on my life or that of the other Montrealers around me, except when some little bitch like YFB tries to impose his lame-ass "culture" war on us.
Hopefully we'll secede from the province soon since it seems like, down to the very core, we just have nothing in common with Quebec City or Gatineau or anywhere else in the province. So yeah, in case you couldn't tell, here in Montreal we're pretty tired of other Quebecois telling us how to think and having them try to lump us in with them and their sad views.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

Well I mean, you do create all these political threads on a skyscraper forum, so I don't think it's "witch hunting", it's just "facts".

Re: the Anglo Canadian culture point, my feeling is that Anglo Canadian culture is mostly a series of brand loyalties to coffee chains and mattress jingles, and Quebecois culture is mostly a series of brand loyalties to rotisserie chicken chains and shitty campfire music bands.

As any true Montrealer, I am a Montrealer first and last, bilingual (French at home though) and I don't really care about the rest of Quebec (the ROQ) or what goes on there because it just has so little impact on my life or that of the other Montrealers around me, except when some little bitch like YFB tries to impose his lame-ass "culture" war on us.
Hopefully we'll secede from the province soon since it seems like, down to the very core, we just have nothing in common with Quebec City or Gatineau or anywhere else in the province. So yeah, in case you couldn't tell, here in Montreal we're pretty tired of other Quebecois telling us how to think and having them try to lump us in with them and their sad views.

Well you are entitled to your opinion but a quick glance shows it's far from all Montrealers who share your views. Certainly not francophone Montrealers who are the largest group in the city and metro.

In case you hadn't noticed a lot of the issues (which you refer to as "sad views") are actually being driven by Montrealers themselves. Montreal is where the interaction between Quebec and the rest of the world plays out - not Quebec City.

This idea of rural hicktown Quebec imposing its will on cosmopolitan Montrealers is a bit of a joke. François Legault is a lifelong Montrealer born and raised. Yves-François Blanchet lives in the Mauricie due to his wife's job but lived in Montreal for much (most?) of his life. Bigwigs from all of Quebec's political parties including the CAQ, PQ and BQ are either native Montrealers or have lived there for decades.

Montrealers played a leading role in the birth of the Quebec nationalist and separatist movements.

And of course, while it's difficult to talk about "everyone", it's pretty close to all francophone Montrealers who have relatives and roots in other parts of the province. Even many Anglo-Montrealers have roots in regions like the Townships and allophones often have relatives who've moved to other regions as well.

I guess you don't talk to your neighbours much.

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Well you are entitled to your opinion but a quick glance shows it's far from all Montrealers who share your views. Certainly not francophone Montrealers who are the largest group in the city and metro.

In case you hadn't noticed a lot of the issues (which you refer to as "sad views") are actually being driven by Montrealers themselves. Montreal is where the interaction between Quebec and the rest of the world plays out - not Quebec City.

This idea of rural hicktown Quebec imposing its will on cosmopolitan Montrealers is a bit of a joke. François Legault is a lifelong Montrealer born and raised. Yves-François Blanchet lives in the Mauricie due to his wife's job but lived in Montreal for much (most?) of his life. Bigwigs from all of Quebec's political parties including the CAQ, PQ and BQ are either native Montrealers or have lived there for decades.

Montrealers played a leading role in the birth of the Quebec nationalist and separatist movements.

And of course, while it's difficult to talk about "everyone", it's pretty close to all francophone Montrealers who have relatives and roots in other parts of the province. Even many Anglo-Montrealers have roots in regions like the Townships and allophones often have relatives who've moved to other regions as well.

I guess you don't talk to your neighbours much.

Yeah, you can think that, but you're not from here, and you aren't one of us, and you don't speak for us. I live in a "francophone" neighbourhood and some of my neighbours and I went to the loi 21 protests. Not sure if you heard about them, but it was kind of a big deal here.

I'll give you Legault - west island is close enough, but no way would I say YFB or Jolin-Barrette count. I think in Ontario that would be like saying someone from Milton was a Torontonian - again, I just doubt you know the area well.

But either way, you're just proving my point - you're an outsider who is telling us here in Montreal to accept your views, and it will never happen. I see the same thing on the Quebec subreddit - man those people detest montrealers lol. Anyway, QC does not equal MTL. Our culture is distinct from yours, and that's okay