The Great SSP Canada Cancel Culture & Wokeism Thread

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Architype

I certainly don't want to be a pawn, nobody should be, that's part of the point. The mask might as well say "Thanks Donald Trump", which would be more accurate. His personal role-modelling is part of the problem.

Sure, but saying that Trump handled this like a dickhead isn't necessarily... ageist. (Using your logic here.)

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Architype

I certainly don't want to be a pawn, nobody should be, that's part of the point. The mask might as well say "Thanks Donald Trump", which would be more accurate. His personal role-modelling is part of the problem.

Don't want to be seen as piling on, but what the frig are you talking about? I loathe Trump as much as anybody, but how is Trump part of the problem when it comes to the coronavirus (outside of the situation in the United States)?

Is it woketarian to blame Trump for everything now? Or am I missing something that's completely obvious? Explain it to me like I'm a five-year-old. How on earth would "Thanks Donald Trump" on a mask in Ontario be more accurate than "Thanks China" when it comes to the coronavirus?

[Architype]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Don't want to be seen as piling on, but what the frig are you talking about? I loathe Trump as much as anybody, but how is Trump part of the problem when it comes to the coronavirus (outside of the situation in the United States)?

Is it woketarian to blame Trump for everything now? Or am I missing something that's completely obvious? Explain it to me like I'm a five-year-old. How on earth would "Thanks Donald Trump" on a mask in Ontario be more accurate than "Thanks China" when it comes to the coronavirus?

Trump's rhetoric and misleading behavior is at least as responsible or complicit as China. Much of our cases in Canada are linked to sources in the US, as we are joined at the hip. Everybody knows that the condoning of racially infused rhetoric hurts people who find themselves at the receiving end.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Architype

Trump's rhetoric and misleading behavior is at least as responsible or complicit as China. Much of our cases in Canada are linked to sources in the US, as we are joined at the hip. Everybody knows that the condoning of racially infused rhetoric hurts people who find themselves at the receiving end.

Trump's admittedly stupid rhetoric and posture about COVID-19 is in the same universe as China when it comes to culpability for a worldwide pandemic? A woman in London Ontario should have chosen Trump as the target of her provocatively sarcastic mask?

Are you smoking something?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Architype

Most people who go along with these kind of statements are in fact racist, in my own experience. It's hard to be racist against Canada, I mean we're not homogeneously of one race or identity.

There is a lot of finger pointing which amounts to "I'm not racist, you're racist for thinking I'm racist".

My frustration, and the reason for my post, is that many people today do not seem to be able to separate being against politics and policies of a particular country, from racism. In fact people use the term so much these days that its impact has been watered down somewhat. Which is why it irks me when, for example, anybody making a statement against China's government is considered to be a racist.

I can't help notice the way you generalize, apparently without thinking about what somebody is actually trying to say. I find myself resenting the implication you made, but maybe I misunderstood your intent, and I admittedly know nothing of your story or experiences.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Read on CBC
...
A women of 60 was wearing one that said 'thanks China' on it and a teenager walked up to the women and said her mask was 'inappropriate'.
...

Did anyone tell the teenager that her mask was "in appropriate" since it didn't cover her nose?


Source

[Architype]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Trump's admittedly stupid rhetoric and posture about COVID-19 is in the same universe as China when it comes to culpability for a worldwide pandemic? A woman in London Ontario should have chosen Trump as the target of her provocatively sarcastic mask?

Are you smoking something?

LOL, and you?

No, in case you misunderstood me, Trump is of course not responsible for the worldwide pandemic, but the incident in question occurred in Canada, where we share a 8900 km border with the US. What has happened in the States because of Trump's actions/inactions affects us greatly. Don't expect much finger pointing by our Canadian government though, for obvious reasons.

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

My frustration, and the reason for my post, is that many people today do not seem to be able to separate being against politics and policies of a particular country, from racism. In fact people use the term so much these days that its impact has been watered down somewhat. Which is why it irks me when, for example, anybody making a statement against China's government is considered to be a racist.

I can't help notice the way you generalize, apparently without thinking about what somebody is actually trying to say. I find myself resenting the implication you made, but maybe I misunderstood your intent, and I admittedly know nothing of your story or experiences.

I think I know what she was trying to say, there is ample subtext available, and I'll bet I can predict how she votes politically and how she feels about xenophobic issues just from that mask.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Architype

but the incident in question occurred in Canada, where we share a 8900 km border with the US.

A border that's been sealed to all but nonessential traffic (whatever essential traffic still allowed being subjected to special measures) since more or less the moment the Chinavirus pandemic showed up on our continent.

It's pretty obvious the number of Canadian cases right now that originate in the U.S. is approximately nil. The virus is out there in Canada at this point just like it is out there in all other countries (whether the data shows it or not; some lie about their case statistics), and the rate of spread in Canada is on Canada, same thing in all other countries. The fact that it is here in Canada however... can be traced to China's lying and covering up in the early days - leading to a global pandemic. They lied about it until it was way too late to even hope to contain it (despite what the WHO was still trying to say at the time, if you'll recall).

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Architype

... and I'll bet I can predict how she votes politically and how she feels about xenophobic issues just from that mask.

I have no problem being on record "thanking China" for this pandemic, and federally I'd vote LPC over CPC - that's what you'd have predicted?

I'll let you in on a little secret: I dislike China. (I wouldn't be surprised if many Hong Kongers agreed with me these days. (Those racists!))

[Architype]

^ I'm not giving anyone a free pass on this, but I think we sometimes take these argumentative postures a bit too seriously, after all we are all here for entertainment purposes only, aren't we, just like Alex Jones?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

I'll let you in on a little secret: I dislike China. (I wouldn't be surprised if many Hong Kongers agreed with me these days. (Those racists!))

In practical terms we need a way to talk about things that China's government does that are bad without every criticism being derailed by accusations of racism. Some people have China Derangement Syndrome, true, but China is sometimes truly a bad actor in world politics. Like when it hides the spread of contagious diseases, builds militarized islands, oppresses various minorities, or withholds PPE shipments, or its state-sponsored twitter accounts spread misinformation, or they use imprisonment as part of a tit for tat diplomatic strategy.

[casper]

Originally Posted by lio45

A border that's been sealed to all but nonessential traffic (whatever essential traffic still allowed being subjected to special measures) since more or less the moment the Chinavirus pandemic showed up on our continent.

It's pretty obvious the number of Canadian cases right now that originate in the U.S. is approximately nil. The virus is out there in Canada at this point just like it is out there in all other countries (whether the data shows it or not; some lie about their case statistics), and the rate of spread in Canada is on Canada, same thing in all other countries. The fact that it is here in Canada however... can be traced to China's lying and covering up in the early days - leading to a global pandemic. They lied about it until it was way too late to even hope to contain it (despite what the WHO was still trying to say at the time, if you'll recall).

Scientists can actually look at the DNA of the virus and compare it regional strains as a way of tracking how it is spreading.

The very early infections in BC originated out of China. That was quickly overwhelmed by strains that were in Italy and the US. In fact very few infections in Canada were direct from China most in eastern Canada came through Canadians traveling to the US.

China did a lot to slow and control the spread of this. China being a communist country could get away with restrictions that we and the west would never tolerate. There were also additional things they could have done that could also have helped isolate this.

The US has been a demonstration of what not to do. Italy as well.

As for this lady with her mask who knows. Perhaps she likes Trump. Perhaps not. Maybe she has some other issue with China. China as a country is a problem player on so many fronts.

As for the Chinese as a people that is an extremely diverse group. Making any comment on the race or society as a whole is hard. Put someone from Tibet or Hong Kong in the same and you may find there is little in common.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Architype

No, in case you misunderstood me, Trump is of course not responsible for the worldwide pandemic, but the incident in question occurred in Canada, where we share a 8900 km border with the US. What has happened in the States because of Trump's actions/inactions affects us greatly.

I'm genuinely bewildered (and obviously have some free time to waste on this). You think that Ontario going into a full month-long lockdown starting on Christmas Eve...has anything even remotely to do with Trump?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by casper

As for the Chinese as a people that is an extremely diverse group. Making any comment on the race or society as a whole is hard. Put someone from Tibet or Hong Kong in the same and you may find there is little in common.

Funnily enough, this is where people overstate things. China is so incredibly unique in the world for just how homogenous it actually is. There are non-Han ethnic groups, there's the obvious urban-rural divide, and there are regional idiosyncrasies that are inevitable in such a large country, but aside from that you've got over a billion Han Chinese who stratify more by socio-economic class than anything else.

China is interesting precisely for how much it isn't extremely diverse.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by casper

In fact very few infections in Canada were direct from China most in eastern Canada came through Canadians traveling to the US.

And the virus in the US came from China and Europe. And this all happened before governments made attempts to get a grip on what was happening and shut down borders.

Our current situation with the virus has precisely zero to do with Trump.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by rousseau

And the virus in the US came from China and Europe.

Exactly. In that chain of events, why would you stop the buck at the USA? It's out there loose and circulating in Canada right now; it originated in China and was allowed to become a global pandemic.

In an alternate Earth where the USA doesn't exist and there's instead an ocean where the USA is (which is what one might think anyway, looking south from Cobourg; see the Weather thread ), Covid still totally spreads into Canada and our case levels right now as of Dec 2020 would look the same.

[Acajack]

Before all the nonsense about downplaying the pandemic's severity and bogus treatments and cures, Trump actually channelled his isolationist Fortress America mindset in the pandemic's early days and imposed much more severe travel restrictions of China and Europe than Canada, and did so earlier.

In fact, the lax approach to air and land travel and borders early on is one of the main problems I have with Trudeau's response to this. (Which overall I find to be fairly decent, all things considered.)

As has been said, by the time the U.S. started going crazy with this pandemic, COVID-19 was already well rooted in Canada.

I don't think the huge upsurge down there is being carried over the border by American truck drivers coming into Canada. I actually haven't heard any reports of these types of cases. And this is probably the only large group of Americans allowed to enter Canada right now.

[casper]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Funnily enough, this is where people overstate things. China is so incredibly unique in the world for just how homogenous it actually is. There are non-Han ethnic groups, there's the obvious urban-rural divide, and there are regional idiosyncrasies that are inevitable in such a large country, but aside from that you've got over a billion Han Chinese who stratify more by socio-economic class than anything else.

China is interesting precisely for how much it isn't extremely diverse.

I find there is quite a different perspective on the world between people I have know from Hong Kong vrs those from mainland China. I know a few people who come from the area near Mongolia and they also have quite a different view. Maybe its just the circle of people I know, but I view China as being quite diverse. That said I have only ever traveled to Shanghai, Honk Kong, Macao and Taiwan.

[casper]

Originally Posted by lio45

Exactly. In that chain of events, why would you stop the buck at the USA? It's out there loose and circulating in Canada right now; it originated in China and was allowed to become a global pandemic.

In an alternate Earth where the USA doesn't exist and there's instead an ocean where the USA is (which is what one might think anyway, looking south from Cobourg; see the Weather thread ), Covid still totally spreads into Canada and our case levels right now as of Dec 2020 would look the same.

I would look at it different.

China tried to stop the virus. It failed at stopping it. It was however successful at buying time for the rest of the world. Over time it managed to get it under control.

Italy tried to stop it. It failed but over time was able to get it over control for a short period of time.

The US tried to stop it. It failed but over time was not able to get it under control at all.

The stats that were published from back in the spring suggest the biggest issue for Canada were people vacationing in the Sothern US and then returning home. I would not pin that on Trump. I would pin that on Canada not having adequate controls in place for returning Canadians. What it did with repatriated cruise ship passengers was much more appropriate that the snow birds and spring break crowd.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by casper

I would look at it different.

China tried to stop the virus. It failed at stopping it. ...

No, what China did do was try to supress the knowledge of this disease. Had they acted like most open countries BACK IN DECEMEBR 2019, we wouldn't be in the situation we are in today. To say otherwise is completely false and a case of extreme revision of history.

In an interview with the Chinese magazine, Renwu, or People, Ai Fen, director of the emergency at Wuhan Central hospital, said she was reprimanded after alerting her superiors and colleagues of a Sars-like virus seen in patients in December.

Now that the virus has claimed more than 3,000 lives inside China, including four doctors at her hospital, one of which was the whistleblower ophthalmologist Li Wenliang, Ai has joined other critics risking their jobs, as well as detention, to speak out about conditions in Wuhan.

“If I had known what was to happen, I would not have cared about the reprimand. I would have fucking talked about it to whoever, where ever I could,” she said in the interview.

LINK

I dislike Trump. I have never voted for the CPC or PC. I have no problems with people of any race. That said, I say the following with complete sincerety

THANKS CHINA (for nothing)