[Moncton] Centre Avenir Centre | 26.65m |~6 Fl | Completed

[RyeJay]

The Times&Tabloids is somewhat useful to read about dramatised moments of municipal political theatre, but not too useful if you want to read an objective analysis about the financial reality of the City of Moncton and by extension the Province of New Brunswick.

Neither level of government has the money to fund an events centre in Downtown Moncton Centre-ville in the foreseeable future. The money will likely not come from the private sector, either, because there isn't the core growth (mostly due to the Province's anti-density approach to community planning) to justify the risk of investment. The growth is currently in the suburbs.

This events centre, which is essentially a public gamble because of how poorly this Province treats urban cores, will have to be funded by the federal government. I am not so certain the "public," in the context of Canada, would be convinced of the financial sustainability of Moncton's proposal.

I believe a good first step to persuading the feds would be to push for reforms in the next provincial election in New Brunswick, to transfer more powers concerning zoning and community development to the municipalities -- and for there to be a mandate of sustainable community planning, especially in terms of taxation. Downtown cores need to have the tax advantage in order to compete and develop. The Province should be outright trying to halt suburban growth, while concurrently pouring massive investments into Downtown Fredericton, Downtown Moncton, Dieppe Centre-ville, Uptown Saint John, etc... -- all paid for via tax rate corrections.

It is time for the suburbs to pay for themselves.

Let's give the feds the evidence they need to see Moncton is serious about acting responsibly on their investment, and ensuring a solvent events centre: by committing to the entire downtown.

If New Brunswick isn't willing to help itself, then I don't think the rest of the country is going to be too enthusiastic about throwing money away...
After all, if money is to be spent frivolously, you need to be under the notice of many more federal MPs than what the Monton region has.

[MonctonRad]

One thing that makes me hopeful that the province might kick in on the events centre (no matter how bankrupt they are), is the fact that they have announced a $200M expansion/refurbishment of the Chalmers Hospital in Fredericton.

With an upcoming election, I expect to see similar largesse provided towards support for the downtown events centre in Moncton and the Fundy Quay project in SJ.........

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

One thing that makes me hopeful that the province might kick in on the events centre (no matter how bankrupt they are), is the fact that they have announced a $200M expansion/refurbishment of the Chalmers Hospital in Fredericton.

With an upcoming election, I expect to see similar largesse provided towards support for the downtown events centre in Moncton and the Fundy Quay project in SJ.........

A desperate province isn't going to care about an events centre when there are larger public concerns.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

A desperate province isn't going to care about an events centre when their are larger public concerns.

There may be larger public concerns, but there are also petty regional politics.....

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There may be larger public concerns, but there are also petty regional politics.....

You exaggerate the amount of support, just in Moncton, for the events centre; and you underestimate the damage these consecutive deficits are doing to New Brunswick.

With the quality of highways, schools, and hospitals decaying, with pensions threatened, with rising unemployment, and with no end in sight to deficits -- I think it's a bit of a joke to think the Province will throw money at an events centre that won't end up impressing much of the electorate.

[Nashe]

I could see it going either way. While it may make complete fiscal sense in the short term to NOT finance it at this point, I'd be equally unsurprised if as stated above, some govco levels do kick some money towards it. I've seen stranger things.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by stephan.richard

after watching the IIHF World Junior Hockey championship from Sweeden i this IF the city goes ahead and builds the new event center/ arena that the city would be in perfect position to host such an event on its own. IE Event Center could host Pool A then Coliseum could host Pool B and other events in the Agrena and Red Ball four Ice could be the official practice facility.

But with that said all possibilities are endless IF the city builds it.

Originally Posted by L'homard

I was thinking the exact same thing as I watched the preliminary games, all played before 1,000 or so Canadians who travelled over there, with almost no locals present and thus 3/4 of the seats were empty, which could have been 9/10ths if not for the Canadians who travelled to Sweden.
I have zero doubt that event would sell well in Moncton.

Canada will be hosting the 2019 and 2021 U20s and given the movement of the hosting communities in previous years (Calgary & Edmonton, Saskatoon & Regina, Ottawa, Vancouver) it is likely that after Montreal and Toronto co-host in 2015 and 2017 that the U20s would return to Atlantic Canada for 2019. Since Halifax and Sydney co-hosted in 2003 the stature of the tournament has grown significantly in Canada to the point where the tournament, if held in the Maritimes, would not be held exclusively in one host city with one large rink and a smaller one.

Ideally Hockey Canada would look for a new arena in Moncton (~10,000) with a secondary arena in Saint John (~6,000) or Halifax again (~10,500) or vice versa. Any combination using two of these three locations would probably be selected. I would include Mile One Centre (~7,000) in St. John's but the travel between locations would be too significant to consider, and there is no secondary location suitable enough to host in Newfoundland. My money would be on a new Moncton arena to host 2019 with Halifax serving as the second location (or Saint John, if you're looking for proximity and variety in hosts). There is no way that we're going to have a repeat of one large host and one small host (Halifax and Sydney) or one city with one large and smaller arena (Malmo) as the stage has just been set so high with the previous tournaments in Canada.

Alternatively 2019 could be placed in Manitoba/BC with Atlantic Canada hosting in 2021. Of course, the tournament may not be hosted in Atlantic Canada at all; i'm only going on assumptions from previous Hockey Canada and IIFC hosting conventions.

[josh_cat_eyes]

I honestly don't think either of those arenas are big enough. They had an average of 18,000+ people per game in Edmonton/Calgary. I think the only way this tournament comes back to Atlantic Canada is if Halifax AND Moncton co-host in, and both cities would need a new arena. Moncton really should be trying to go with like 10,500 or 11,000 seats, where Halifax could support an arena similar to MTS Centre in Winnipeg. 15,000-17,000 seats.

I'm going to predict that it's hosted between Winnipeg/Saskatchewan (although Winnipeg & Grand Forks, ND would be viable as well) and another In Vancouver.

[BlackYear]

The 10,500 seat Halifax Metro Centre was build in 1976 with a Halifax-Darthmouth-Bedford population of ~187,000.

Moncton is looking for a 10,000 seat Downtown arena with a 2013 Moncton-Riverview-Dieppe population of 140,000.

I really don't think Moncton's vision is out of wack, considering the way Moncton & Dieppe has been growing at decent pace, and continue to do so.

Yes, the province itself is in complete shamble, however, greater Moncton seems to be doing very well within its own bubble.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Budyser

The 10,500 seat Halifax Metro Centre was build in 1976 with a Halifax-Darthmouth-Bedford population of ~187,000.

Moncton is looking for a 10,000 seat Downtown arena with a 2013 Moncton-Riverview-Dieppe population of 140,000.

I really don't think Moncton's vision is out of wack, considering the way Moncton & Dieppe has been growing at decent pace, and continue to do so.

The proposed events centre is ambitious, but as you have pointed out; when viewed in the context of the conditions that existed when the Halifax Metro Centre was built, this ambition is not outrageous.

I wonder which level of government in Nova Scotia was primarily responsible for the funding of the Metro Centre when it was built??

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

I honestly don't think either of those arenas are big enough. They had an average of 18,000+ people per game in Edmonton/Calgary. I think the only way this tournament comes back to Atlantic Canada is if Halifax AND Moncton co-host in, and both cities would need a new arena. Moncton really should be trying to go with like 10,500 or 11,000 seats, where Halifax could support an arena similar to MTS Centre in Winnipeg. 15,000-17,000 seats.

I'm going to predict that it's hosted between Winnipeg/Saskatchewan (although Winnipeg & Grand Forks, ND would be viable as well) and another In Vancouver.

I agree that a new events centre in Moncton would lead to the ideal conditions for Moncton and Halifax to co-host a future World Juniors Championship.

The need for a new events centre in Moncton is self evident (HVAC problems, narrow concourses, lousy sound system, general location etc, etc, etc). I am not so sure that Halifax needs a new Metro Centre though. The existing Metro Centre still has good bones and an excellent location downtown. The only major problem with the Metro Centre is with the corporate boxes that they added about 12-15 years ago. They give you a claustrophobic feeling if you are sitting in the upper bowl seats and limits your ability to see the scoreboard.

I think you would need a pressing reason to replace the current Metro Centre (age, capacity issues, impending NHL team). Halifax should concentrate their efforts on a new general purpose stadium………...

[josh_cat_eyes]

I think the metro centre is too small for the market. I agree with you, it's not urgent but it would provide new opportunities. Especially if they could keep it downtown. I think by the casino would be a good place if they were to replace the interchange there.
On the Moncton end, I don't want them to go too small and regret it later on.

[MonctonRad]

Editorial from today's T&T

What follows FIFA?
Monday, February 10, 2014
Times & Transcript

Although the provincial government of David Alward has already voiced its commitment to supporting an events centre for Moncton we hope both it and, more to the point, the federal government through Moncton-Riverview-Dieppe MP Robert Goguen take special notice of last week’s reports about the economic benefits sport and entertainment tourism can have for all three levels of government.

Those stories noted that one Metro facility alone—Stade Moncton 2010 Stadium on the Université de Moncton campus — will by the conclusion of the international FIFA soccer events here next year have realized more than $200 million in spin-off benefits for Metro’s three sister communities, for Fredericton through sales tax revenue and ultimately for Ottawa by helping to forge a more self-sustaining economic climate in this province.

Just imagine how much farther Metro and the provincial government would be today if a $100 million events centre had been started at the same time as the stadium. While we are optimistic it will eventually come to pass, government has already lost out on an opportunity for millions in tax revenue.

It is sadly ironic that an unforeseen drop in government revenue has been identified as the main culprit behind the provincial government’s frustrations with getting the annual budget back to surplus mode.

On the local front, the success of the stadium is an admirable thing, but it is also a warning. The stadium project was launched under the aegis of former Mayor Lorne Mitton but a team of local philanthropists and hard-working volunteers under the leadership of the late City of Moncton senior staffer Ian Fowler was what filled it.

The FIFA events were brought in under Mr. Fowler and they are the last big international events scheduled. Where is the new calendar of stadium events to take us forward after FIFA?

personal note - There is indeed a tendency amongst the naysayers to envision projects like the stadium or the proposed events centre as nothing more than money pits, but at the same time they also serve as economic generators for the community and also help to make the city a more vibrant and desirable place to live. A new downtown events centre should be considered as a vital piece of civic infrastructure; not as a millstone. This project should continue at all costs and the feds should be shamed into supporting it, especially if they do something to expedite a new stadium in Halifax (like free land at Shannon Park). Equity and fairness should be the order of the day!!

The point about the future of the Moncton Stadium is a valid one. It has been (and will be) busy since it has been built, with the World Junior Track & Field Championships, three CFL games, the Canadian Track & Field Championships (x2) and both the FIFA U18 Women's World Cup and the regular FIFA Women's World Cup. This takes the facility through to 2015. There is nothing scheduled beyond this point and the "A team" led by the late Ian Fowler (responsible for most of the success of the facility) is no longer effective. Will the stadium just revert to a university only facility or will the city continue to promote it for other events?

The CFL seems to be a lost cause. Halifax has successfully hijacked the agenda here and I doubt we will ever see another CFL game played in the city. If Halifax builds a new stadium for a CFL franchise, then it will become the premier sports stadium in the region and the Moncton Stadium will take a back seat to it. We might lose out on hosting other international sporting events as a result. The bright minds at city hall should be planning now for the future of the facility. Maybe UdeM should be encouraged to consider a CIS football team. Perhaps the city should consider an NASL soccer franchise. Thoughts anyone?

[MonctonRad]

It was in the paper yesterday that Premier David Alward has reaffirmed the provincial government's support for the downtown events centre and has pledged a financial contribution to the project if the feds also get on board.

Meanwhile, Mayor George LeBlanc is encouraged by details surrounding the new 10 year infrastructure program planned by the federal government. Also, regional minister for NB, Rob Moore, was quoted as stating that the events centre was "certainly on the radar" of the federal government.

I think a lot will be settled about this project in the next 6-12 months, especially with a provincial election this fall and a federal election next year…...

[swish]

If they build this I hope it is well designed as I have never been a fan of Crystal Palace for instance. I am a fan of the Magnetic Hill concert site and have supported it through attending shows but only when the shows interest me and that has only been twice.

[MonctonRad]

Not sure why you're equating the events centre to Crystal Palace; they are two entirely different beasts. That's like equating a rabbit and a rhinoceros because they're both mammals……

Please refer to this presentation of several proposals for the events centre and I think you will be able to appreciate the size, scale and potential impact of this development. It would transform the western edge of the downtown core.

• Video Link

[swish]

Crystal Palace of course has nothing to do with the proposal i just really dislike Crystal Palace and am so glad that annoying tv commercial with screaming children is finally gone.

[MonctonRad]

Moncton’s downtown centre is subject of three meetings
Monday, March 17, 2014
Times & Transcript
By: Brent Mazerolle

The proposed events centre for downtown Moncton is on the agenda at tonight’s meeting of Moncton city council

– and the topic of two special meetings later this week as well.

The regular public meeting of Moncton council begins at 5 p.m.

Two special public meetings are scheduled for Tuesday at 11:30 a.m. and on Wednesday at 4 p.m.

Council will be presented the draft request for proposals and the legal agreements for the Downtown Centre at today’s meeting.

Anyone interested in viewing the draft documents can visit Moncton.ca – the downtown centre icon is on the home page – this afternoon prior to the meeting.

Here is the link for the pdf for the RFP overview:
http://www.moncton.ca/Assets/Busines...esentation.pdf

Key points:
- an "affordability cap" of $95M
- the events centre to be open by August 2017
- the RFP calls for 7,500 fixed seats and 1,500-2,000 "non fixed seats

I'm not sure exactly what they mean by "non fixed" seats, but I wonder if they aren't talking about floor seating for concerts. If so, then the actual seating capacity for the events centre would only be 7,500 which is far less than the hoped for 10,000 seats and only a shade more than the current seating capacity of the Coliseum at about 6,800 seats.

If so, this is very disappointing and puts the new events centre at a capacity that would not be able to attract certain major events like the Brier. I hpe this is not the case, but I'm afraid that it is……..

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Moncton’s downtown centre is subject of three meetings
Monday, March 17, 2014
Times & Transcript
By: Brent Mazerolle

The proposed events centre for downtown Moncton is on the agenda at tonight’s meeting of Moncton city council

– and the topic of two special meetings later this week as well.

The regular public meeting of Moncton council begins at 5 p.m.

Two special public meetings are scheduled for Tuesday at 11:30 a.m. and on Wednesday at 4 p.m.

Council will be presented the draft request for proposals and the legal agreements for the Downtown Centre at today’s meeting.

Anyone interested in viewing the draft documents can visit Moncton.ca – the downtown centre icon is on the home page – this afternoon prior to the meeting.

Here is the link for the pdf for the RFP overview:
http://www.moncton.ca/Assets/Busines...esentation.pdf

Key points:
- an "affordability cap" of $95M
- the events centre to be open by August 2017
- the RFP calls for 7,500 fixed seats and 1,500-2,000 "non fixed seats

I'm not sure exactly what they mean by "non fixed" seats, but I wonder if they aren't talking about floor seating for concerts. If so, then the actual seating capacity for the events centre would only be 7,500 which is far less than the hoped for 10,000 seats and only a shade more than the current seating capacity of the Coliseum at about 6,800 seats.

If so, this is very disappointing and puts the new events centre at a capacity that would not be able to attract certain major events like the Brier. I hpe this is not the case, but I'm afraid that it is……..

Yes. It HAS to be 10,000 seats minimum. A lower bowl of 5000 seats and an upper bowl of 4900 seats and as many skyboxes as they can fit!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Yes. It HAS to be 10,000 seats minimum. A lower bowl of 5000 seats and an upper bowl of 4900 seats and as many skyboxes as they can fit!

They are talking about 20 skyboxes, but that would be included in the 7,500 (minimum) fixed seating allocation…….

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

They are talking about 20 skyboxes, but that would be included in the 7,500 (minimum) fixed seating allocation…….

Why do they keep downsizing? There should be 5000 seats in the lower bowl then and 5000 in the upper bowl and then skyboxes. The Metro Centre offers 8, 12, 20 & 24 seat boxes so maybe you're looking at 200-300 extra seats or so.