International Place | ? m | 22 fl | On Hold

[someone123]

This 8.3% figure was in ANS a few nights ago. It could be incorrect, or maybe CBRE calculates it differently from Colliers. I am not sure.

The vacancy rate for leasable office space is a useful number but it only tells part of the story. I find it a little irksome how many journalists pick one or two stats like that and manipulate them to fit whatever story they want to tell. With something like the NSP development, the move would have counted as negative absorption and therefore an increase in the vacancy rate, all else being equal, even though they stayed downtown and even though the new building is arguably a good thing. Another thing you'll commonly see is all non-CBD office space reported as "suburban", including areas like Spring Garden Road. Even Dartmouth, Quinpool, and a few other areas are pretty distinct from suburban office parks.

There are US cities with historically robust office markets where the vacancy rate hovers around 10-20% but there is high absorption and a steady stream of new construction. Halifax on the other hand had a period of low vacancy, low absorption, and almost no construction, which is not particularly great even though the vacancy rate in isolation seems good.

Another one that gets me is the "no crane downtown for 20 years" canard or variations on that theme ("no office development in 20 years", "no new buildings on Barrington Street in 20 years"). Those claims are all incorrect.

[fenwick16]

I think the current trend of more residential developments in the CBD (Central Business District) will lead to better conditions for downtown Halifax than would result from more office developments. The residential projects will lead to more retail having healthier profits than is currently the case (it could become more like Spring Garden Road).

I like to imagine a downtown Halifax with plenty of residents and additional theater, museums and restaurants. In other words, a more vibrant downtown than it currently is.

It doesn't bother me to see office development spread throughout the urban core of Halifax & Dartmouth and even the suburbs. I like the idea of people being able to live and work within their vicinity.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Was wondering WTF happened to this development, so went looking and found this:

http://www.progressmedia.ca/article/...g-come-finally

I guess it's still on Crombie's radar.

They should stop waiting on the Office Rental market, and instead pitch something residential.

Is the site in question completely immune to any possible changes to the Cogswell Interchange? I doubt their hesitation is because of laziness.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I think the current trend of more residential developments in the CBD (Central Business District) will lead to better conditions for downtown Halifax than would result from more office developments. The residential projects will lead to more retail having healthier profits than is currently the case (it could become more like Spring Garden Road).

I like to imagine a downtown Halifax with plenty of residents and additional theater, museums and restaurants. In other words, a more vibrant downtown than it currently is.

It doesn't bother me to see office development spread throughout the urban core of Halifax & Dartmouth and even the suburbs. I like the idea of people being able to live and work within their vicinity.

Completely agree. This, IMHO, is really the problem with the downtown core. Not a lack of office space, but lack of density residential development.

Having more people living downtown, will solve so many of the problems we continually wring our hands over. If we had some high density residential on and around Barrington, the street will solve itself. No more empty shop fronts. People naturally will rather woke to the corner to buy what they need, than always pile into a car and drive in traffic to buy at a big box.

Concerned about traffic and congestion? Getting more people downtown means higher public transit use and.. well... people walking to local destinations, rather than driving everywhere.

Downtown, too much low density for too long, and too little residential development, has led to great divide between high end/high demand and very expensive housing (either luxury apartments, condos, and single-family unit houses (ie houses in the south end) and crappier low end rentals and housing-- either not very well maintained by landlords-- which is not attractive to people or families who might otherwise locate somewhere on the peninsula, but end up in suburban areas.

More higher density development downtown will offer more mid-ranged priced and quality housing, bringing more people downtown.

I just don't understand what took the city so long to figure this out...

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

I just don't understand what took the city so long to figure this out...

I still don't think it quite has.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

I still don't think it quite has.

It definitely has not.

But I think when the current pipeline moves through, it will become more apparent.

The 3 towers for the "north end", 16 Yonge twin towers and the 19 on Robie will be significant boost to that area.

Robie should eventually be built up in certain sections.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Is the site in question completely immune to any possible changes to the Cogswell Interchange? I doubt their hesitation is because of laziness.

I think its expansionary speed. This development would be quite huge by their standards.

[xanaxanax]

So is this dead now?

[spaustin]

Originally Posted by xanaxanax

So is this dead now?

I would say it has gone back to slumber for another decade. Waterside Centre, Nova Centre plus the bank tower projects are going to eat up the Downtown office demand. It also seems that Crombie's main objective is adding onto Scotia Square. Makes some sense. If I were them, I would wait until the Cogswell comes down. The development agreement on this one didn't include an expiry though so it'll be back.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by spaustin

I would say it has gone back to slumber for another decade. Waterside Centre, Nova Centre plus the bank tower projects are going to eat up the Downtown office demand. It also seems that Crombie's main objective is adding onto Scotia Square. Makes some sense. If I were them, I would wait until the Cogswell comes down. The development agreement on this one didn't include an expiry though so it'll be back.

Yeah, I would say Crombie REIT is a bit short on capital these days, with its $1 billion acquisition of 68 Safeway stores out west. I think it's divesting itself of a lot of property to rebuild its liquidity.

There's no way it has the capital to poor into a big development.

You can see the belt tightening everywhere: selling of Park Lane Mall. Also, jacking up rents on tenants in Scotiasquare, leading to tenants of 20+ years having to leave for more corporate outfits.

I think this is just dead, especially with new Cogswell plans in the worlds.

[xanaxanax]

I've read else where on this form that the International Place is on hold because of the Cogswell Interchange redevelopment which makes senses. If the building were to be developed now at street level and then the Cogswell Interchange dismantled there would be a gap at the North end of the site by approx. 15ft. Hopefully all things will go as planed and the Cogswell Interchange will come down next year and this project will follow soon after.

[halifaxboyns]

The project maybe on hold but it does have one benefit - it's permanently approved because of land use changes from way back in the day. So the approval never expires (which was a mistake on HRM's part; but benefits the Developer). So even if this stays in limbo for 2-5 years, it can just come off the shelf and should be able to go forward with minimum fuss.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

The project maybe on hold but it does have one benefit - it's permanently approved because of land use changes from way back in the day. So the approval never expires (which was a mistake on HRM's part; but benefits the Developer). So even if this stays in limbo for 2-5 years, it can just come off the shelf and should be able to go forward with minimum fuss.

And, it's almost guaranteed that a version designed and built over, say, the next decade will be a lot more architecturally impressive and urban-friendly than what we would've ended up with had it been built years ago as planned.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

And, it's almost guaranteed that a version designed and built over, say, the next decade will be a lot more architecturally impressive and urban-friendly than what we would've ended up with had it been built years ago as planned.

Definitely - we've seen some evolution of the design already in this thread.

[xanaxanax]

Originally Posted by spaustin

I would say it has gone back to slumber for another decade. Waterside Centre, Nova Centre plus the bank tower projects are going to eat up the Downtown office demand. It also seems that Crombie's main objective is adding onto Scotia Square. Makes some sense. If I were them, I would wait until the Cogswell comes down. The development agreement on this one didn't include an expiry though so it'll be back.

Aren't they planning to move the Sobeys or Empire Company head office in this building though and fill up most of the office space? It makes more senses to have these head offices in Halfiax than out in New Glasgow or wherever they are now.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by xanaxanax

Aren't they planning to move the Sobeys or Empire Company head office in this building though and fill up most of the office space? It makes more senses to have these head offices in Halfiax than out in New Glasgow or wherever they are now.

It does make more sense, but "sense" doesn't go a long way in Nova Scotian business and industry. Inefficient. Backwards. Etc. I mean, despite having DHX and other digital firms downtown, there's a leading video game company operating out of... Lunenburg! And it's not like HB Studios get special perks there.. they're not even appreciated by locals! (they're hated by NIMBYs there!).

[scooby074]

Originally Posted by xanaxanax

Aren't they planning to move the Sobeys or Empire Company head office in this building though and fill up most of the office space? It makes more senses to have these head offices in Halfiax than out in New Glasgow or wherever they are now.

How so? What would they gain by moving to Scotia Square? What "senses" would it make?

Their CEO (and several other execs) live in Quebec and commute daily/weekly via private jet.

They have their own airport for their jets in Trenton, so runway availability is a non issue. If they were in Halifax, they'd have to fight it out with all the other users. Matter of fact their CEO spends as much time flying coast to coast as he does at head office.

Not only that ,but theyve made a huge investment in their new IT centre and new head office, let alone the 100's of high quality, trained staff there. The new CEO has said he has NO intentions of going anywhere.

And their based in STELLARTON, not "wherever". Try Google sometime....

[ILoveHalifax]

If Sobeys were going to leave New Glasgow they would do better moving to Toronto rather than Halifax. So let's leave 'sense' out of it.
Further many large grocers throughout North American are located in very small cities.

[W.Sobchak]

Besides the last thing the province needs to do is prop the area up after another job provider takes off for somewheres else.

[OldDartmouthMark]

The interesting aspect to this is while urbanists are continuing along the same old line of thinking that it's always best to cram everybody into the downtown areas as it's the central location from which to do business, there is another trend that has been developing for a long time with the advancement of communication technologies. There is an increasing number of people who are able to take advantage of working remotely, where costs are lower than the downtown core of a large city and presumably the surroundings are more desirable to them, while still being able to be in touch via VPN, "the cloud", etc., etc.

While there is obviously still value in urbanist thinking, and there will always be those who prefer that type of setting, one must postulate on whether the trend in the future might be for a more spread-out workforce that can work effectively from essentially "anyplace" in the country that they may want to live, i.e. Lunenburg, the valley, Trenton, Baddeck, or wherever, for those who may have tired of the "rat race" of the daily commute in traffic, busy subways, etc., associated with big city living.