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  #7101  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2020, 3:11 PM
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ahealy ahealy is offline
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Originally Posted by drummer View Post
I've seen stuff on Instagram and Linkedin, as well as links on news articles, etc., but I'm not on Facebook. It's been clean but still somewhat vague. I wish they would have addressed some of the opposition arguments weeks ago, personally, but it doesn't make any sense to put something out this late.
Yes, I agree. Who knows, maybe it will pass and there are a lot of shy voters. We still have time to encourage others and VOTE.
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  #7102  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2020, 3:25 PM
We vs us We vs us is offline
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The early voting numbers in Travis have been astoundingly huge that there may not be too many voters left to convince.
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  #7103  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2020, 3:27 PM
StoOgE StoOgE is offline
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My poorer friends who rely on transit are pretty anti-prop A. I think the mismanagement of consolidating the bus lines a few years ago has soured a lot of people on Cap Metro.

We'll see what happens. I do feel that high turnout is likely bad for prop A as less engaged people may just see "taxes" and vote no. Hopefully I am wrong, but I am a pretty pessimistic person when it comes to this town and mass transit.
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  #7104  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2020, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by We vs us View Post
The early voting numbers in Travis have been astoundingly huge that there may not be too many voters left to convince.
Agreed. That's why I think it's not worth it to fight the anti-everything tactics at this point.
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  #7105  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2020, 4:29 PM
atxsnail atxsnail is offline
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Originally Posted by drummer View Post
I couldn't read the full article, but I get the gist of it. Unfortunately, there's not much that we can do other than hope level-headed people can see through the fog.
It's easy to overreact to one news story or another about this type of election and start feeling pessimistic. Here are a few reminders to help cheer the Pro-Transit camp.

Austin today is virtually unrecognizable from the Austin of 2000. I wasn't here for it, but I understand there was a similarly forceful and dirty campaign against the first light rail plan. There was economic uncertainty back then as well after the tech bubble burst, perhaps not exactly comparable to the pandemic, but still. Austin was WAY more NIMBY then than it is today. Even with all of that, the people of Austin voted in favor of the rail plan. It lost because it did not do well in outlying areas, much of which will have no say on the 2020 plan.
Here is a map of the 2000 votes

I think the Austin electorate has only gotten comparatively younger, more urbanist, and more transit friendly in 20 years. The final tally was 126,434 to 124,479. (I don't know which of these precincts will not get a vote in 2020.)

In 2014, voters in Austin smacked down an unpopular rail plan. (I supported it, despite its flaws and the fact that it would not benefit me.) This plan lost badly, with a final tally of 108,587 (57.2%) against to 81,265 (42.8%) for. I think we can look at this in a few ways. This campaign was laughably mismanaged. The plan was basically toxic, with most city council and mayoral candidates saying they opposed the plan, some even making it central to their platforms. CapMetro's reputation back then was as low as I can remember in my nearly 20 years in Austin. Despite all that, the central parts of Austin were in favor according to the results map.



It was a low turnout, off-cycle election. We know the type of people who tend to come out in those elections - those people are the No on Prop A types. The anti-rail and anti-tax folks vote in every election. Every single one of those people came out in 2014. Does anyone think a ton of these types have moved into Austin since then? I don't. Not in enough numbers to matter, anyway. Look at the names and donors in opposition today. Same crusty old farts as back then. (To be fair, there is a noteable group of longtime Austin rail activists who are also crusty old farts.) Even if all 108k of those who voted against do so again this election (unlikely b/c of reasons below), look at our current turnout numbers: just shy of 500k have voted as of yesterday. There are a ton of people at the polls, and I bet they are much younger and more transit friendly than the 2014 crowd. And that's just early voters. Interestingly the 2014 plan actually did better on election night relative to early voting.

Recall that transit activists hated the 2014 plan. A not insiginficant portion of those old No votes are basically guaranteed Yes votes this time around. I wish we had some polling data on what portion voted No based on the idea that we had the wrong plan. No one knows how many votes will flip, but it's going to be material. There aren't that many activists, but they are loud on social media and I remember the tone on Reddit and social media was very much toward the No side back then. This time feels really different. Virtually all Austin electeds, establishment Dem groups, progressive Dem groups, environmental groups, and social justice groups proudly support this plan. People don't usually vote based on what their leaders say, but they are a useful estimator for finding the median constituency of each politician/group. Most publicly visible online chatter (Nextdoor notwithstanding), is very pro-Prop A (anecdotal, I know).

All of this was just a really meandering way of saying the following:
  • The electorate is much bigger than prior transit votes
  • The electorate has become comparatively more likely to support transit
  • The Anti-tax, Anti-Rail crowd has probably not grown much since 2014.
  • Even with unpopular plans, people tend to vote in favor of trains that will serve their neighborhoods.
  • This touches a lot of neighborhoods. And the airport - important for picking up casual supporters, much to the chagrin of transit nerds.
  • This plan has a lot more influential cheerleaders than prior efforts. And the Pro groups actually have some real funding to match the Anti groups for once.
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  #7106  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2020, 6:08 PM
Novacek Novacek is online now
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2000 is probably a bad compare, since the claim with that plan was doing it with no taxes (reality may have been different).

I'm wholeheartedly behind A, but realistically raising taxes undoubtedly costs some support (compared to a no-tax 2000 vote).

I'm not sure how it will do overall. I wonder how well the Pro-A camp is doing on minority outreach. I have been served some Spanish-language anti-A ads for some reason.
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  #7107  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2020, 7:16 PM
drummer drummer is offline
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That's a good analysis, atxsnail. I think Novacek brings up a good point on taxation considerations and minority focused communication as well. In any case, we'll find out soon enough. I do think that this is a more thorough plan than previous ones and people are eager for a solution to traffic woes, for sure. Hopefully there's enough support to get it passed.
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  #7108  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 11:50 AM
H2O H2O is offline
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ATXsnail, I think you got that mostly right, except for a few details. One, the 2000 vote came at the peak of the dot.com boom in Austin. The bust didn't arrive until about 1 year later. Two, in 2000 Cap Metro's reputation was way worse than it was in 2014. People still had fresh memories of the FBI investigations in the 19990s. That is why the City started getting more involved in the issue after the 2000 vote. It was felt that the City's good reputation would lend more legitimacy to the cause. Cap Metro's near bankruptcy during the Great Recession might have had an impact in 2014, but it was a City bond issuance. Recent controversial decisions by the City Council could have an impact this time around.
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  #7109  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 1:25 PM
Novacek Novacek is online now
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Originally Posted by H2O View Post
ATXsnail, I think you got that mostly right, except for a few details. One, the 2000 vote came at the peak of the dot.com boom in Austin. The bust didn't arrive until about 1 year later.
The NASDAQ peaked in March 2000, and by November 2000 had dropped by about 30%.

Austin may not have hit peak layoffs yet, but I think everyone knew the writing was on the wall.
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  #7110  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 3:11 PM
atxsnail atxsnail is offline
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Thanks for the clarifications Novacek and H20.

Because I was bored and nervous, I decided to look into the age split of the 2020 vote in Travis county. I found a breakdown on TargetSmart https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/. It does not provide a ton of insight into the Prop A/B chances, but the comparison against prior elections is pretty remarkable. Even against another presidential year in 2016, this year really stands out. Young people are turning out this election. These numbers are updated daily and the percentage in the 18-29 category actually went up since yesterday.

I found 2014 results in some other unrelated report (coincidentally authored in part by Peck Young, noted opponent of Prop A) and assumed a uniform distribution within age brackets. Big caveat in that the 2014 numbers are strictly from the 10 city districts and not Travis County as with the 2016 and 2020 numbers.

There are obvious reasons that 2014 and 2020 would be different, but it says a lot about the wisdom of officials who decide to hold transit votes in low turnout years. I guess in fairness NUMTOTS weren't a thing yet in 2014.


2014 *
18-29 4.7%
30-39 13.0%
40-49 17.3%
50-64 32.4%
65+ 32.6%
* City of Austin

2016 **
18-29 15.3%
30-39 19.1%
40-49 18.8%
50-64 27.7%
65+ 19.0%
** Travis County

2020 **
18-29 18.7%
30-39 21.2%
40-49 17.9%
50-64 23.7%
65+ 18.5%
** Travis County
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  #7111  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 3:39 PM
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There is certainly a large jump for 18-29, but also for 30-39. It'll be interesting to see how that affects the outcome.
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  #7112  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 7:35 PM
StoOgE StoOgE is offline
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Originally Posted by drummer View Post
There is certainly a large jump for 18-29, but also for 30-39. It'll be interesting to see how that affects the outcome.
Those are both demographic groups that are most likely to be transplants from Cali/NY.

I have no faith in this cities ability to build trains till we do it, but maybe?
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  #7113  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 4:16 AM
freerover freerover is offline
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Originally Posted by StoOgE View Post
Those are both demographic groups that are most likely to be transplants from Cali/NY.

I have no faith in this cities ability to build trains till we do it, but maybe?
Cm has been efficiently finishing capital projects over the last few years. I’m not worried as long as Clark is there.
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  #7114  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2020, 3:05 PM
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ahealy ahealy is offline
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Originally Posted by StoOgE View Post
Those are both demographic groups that are most likely to be transplants from Cali/NY.

I have no faith in this cities ability to build trains till we do it, but maybe?
If it doesn't pass, a small plan should just be implemented without voter approval--is that even possible?
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  #7115  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2020, 6:37 PM
Novacek Novacek is online now
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Originally Posted by ahealy View Post
If it doesn't pass, a small plan should just be implemented without voter approval--is that even possible?
Unlike anywhere else in Texas, explicit voter approval is required for a new rail in Austin. Thank the Texas legislature and their Austin bashing.
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  #7116  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2020, 8:55 PM
freerover freerover is offline
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Originally Posted by Novacek View Post
Unlike anywhere else in Texas, explicit voter approval is required for a new rail in Austin. Thank the Texas legislature and their Austin bashing.
And approval is required for extensions beyond 12 miles. I have no doubt if Prop A passes that lawsuits will be filed saying the ballot language didn't comply with the state law to try to kill it in the courts.
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  #7117  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2020, 11:15 PM
N90 N90 is online now
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Unlike anywhere else in Texas, explicit voter approval is required for a new rail in Austin. Thank the Texas legislature and their Austin bashing.
It's exactly like that in Houston.

Getting METRORail was in the hands of voters, then each time it was expanded was also left in the hands of voters. Voters there approved the new batch of extensions that will be underway soon to Hobby Airport and other points beyond just last year.
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  #7118  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2020, 11:22 PM
freerover freerover is offline
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Originally Posted by N90 View Post
It's exactly like that in Houston.

Getting METRORail was in the hands of voters, then each time it was expanded was also left in the hands of voters. Voters there approved the new batch of extensions that will be underway soon to Hobby Airport and other points beyond just last year.
I don't think that's true. I don't think the Purple And/Or Green lines went to voters. They got federal money and approved it.
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  #7119  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2020, 11:26 PM
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I don't think that's true. I don't think the Purple And/Or Green lines went to voters. They got federal money and approved it.
Purple and Green were approved by voters in 1999 with the initial LRT plan (it was initially a 5 line inner loop system), as were the University and Uptown lines, along with the Red Line. The Red line got built immediately but the city just took forever building Purple and Green because of corruption and scandals in METRO leadership.

Last edited by N90; Nov 1, 2020 at 11:38 PM.
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  #7120  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2020, 12:28 AM
Novacek Novacek is online now
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It’s 451.071

It doesn’t apply to Houston because Houston has a population greater than 850K.

Of course, it must be pure coincidence that the only city it applies to (population and date of transportation authority) is Austin.

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/D...htm/TN.451.htm
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