Kanata LRT EA - Bayshore to Palladium - Page 4

Uhuniau · #61 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 6:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Meanwhile, all those people in eastern Gloucester and Jasmine Park especially (people who actually might use public transit because they're less well-to-do) get to watch as the Confederation Line blows right past their already high-density and fully developed neighbourhoods so that Orleans commuters only have to endure one stop for the 7.5km stretch between Jeanne D'Arc and Blair.

Yup. Seems like a fair and equitable distribution of resources to me.

To say nothing of people in Vanier, New Edinburgh, Overbrook, etc., who keep seeing local transit service deteriorate, while OC Transpo and their city councillors not only deny that there's any problem, but are often actively hostile to anyone who dares suggest such a thing.

Meanwhile, where's the TPM plan for core transit axes?

And how freaked out will the suburban councillors be when they see the "exorbitant" cost of changing some lights and paint on Montreal Road or Rideau Street?

1overcosc · #62 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 6:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

That's not "close" in my books.

They're about 600m apart which is fairly close.

1overcosc · #63 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 6:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

It's nice to see a ridiculous number of stations out towards the western terminus of the line. Also nice to see the city going out of their way to leave the median of the Queensway to improve connectivity and service for Kanata residents. Darn. That's some nice quality service for those fortunate people.

Meanwhile, all those people in eastern Gloucester and Jasmine Park especially (people who actually might use public transit because they're less well-to-do) get to watch as the Confederation Line blows right past their already high-density and fully developed neighbourhoods so that Orleans commuters only have to endure one stop for the 7.5km stretch between Jeanne D'Arc and Blair.

Yup. Seems like a fair and equitable distribution of resources to me.

The reason is because that part of Kanata doesn't exist yet.. it's all empty fields. Very easy to plan an ideal corridor through a place that has yet to be built.

In Gloucester you'd have to insert a line through an already existing area.. must harder.

Uhuniau · #64 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 6:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

They're about 600m apart which is pretty close spacing for rapid transit.

That's comparable to the TTC subway, and it's about the spacing we should have aimed for downtown before the project got cheapskated.

Uhuniau · #65 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 6:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The reason is because that part of Kanata doesn't exist yet.. it's all empty fields. Very easy to plan an ideal corridor through a place that has yet to be built.

In Gloucester you'd have to insert a line through an already existing area.. must harder.

And yet, it's being done.... yet without actually building a station to serve people whose back fences will literally overlook the tracks.

We are not building urban transit in Ottawa. We are building suburban transit. There is no plan to bring transit to the urbs. None.

Capital Shaun · #66 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 6:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

It's nice to see a ridiculous number of stations out towards the western terminus of the line. Also nice to see the city going out of their way to leave the median of the Queensway to improve connectivity and service for Kanata residents. Darn. That's some nice quality service for those fortunate people.

Meanwhile, all those people in eastern Gloucester and Jasmine Park especially (people who actually might use public transit because they're less well-to-do) get to watch as the Confederation Line blows right past their already high-density and fully developed neighbourhoods so that Orleans commuters only have to endure one stop for the 7.5km stretch between Jeanne D'Arc and Blair.

Yup. Seems like a fair and equitable distribution of resources to me.

As someone who lives in Beacon Hill near Jasmine, I can only grumble when planned extensions to further out communities get so many stations per km...

Uhuniau · #67 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 6:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

As someone who lives in Beacon Hill near Jasmine, I can only grumble when planned extensions to further out communities get so many stations per km...

You could grumble, or you could get on your councillor's and useless mayor's case.

Capital Shaun · #68 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 7:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

You could grumble, or you could get on your councillor's and useless mayor's case.

My councilor is well aware of my opinion.

lrt's friend · #69 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 7:07 PM**

The real reason why the western LRT will not follow the highway median is because it is a provincial highway. The province has just rebuilt this section and would have to contribute financially to ripping it apart again. Not likely. The eastern LRT follows the 174, which is a city owned road. Full speed ahead with maximum disruption in the east end.

OTSkyline · #70 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 7:38 PM**

To me 7 stations in the 7km in Kanata is ridiculous and overkill. If this is supposed to be a FAST TRUNK route, then I say Kanata should only have 3 stations; Eagleson, Kanata Centrum & Tanger/CTC.

If the SENS move to Lebreton, why the hell would we build a line and a station at the CTC? To serve the car dealership? Like what the hell...

We should be encouraging buses in the area to terminate/drop people off at the three main stations in Kanata and then boom, away they go to the City.

The savings on 4 stations could be reinvested in a third line or whatever the next project may be.

roger1818 · #71 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 8:00 PM**

I don't get why it has to follow the Queensway? Buses can do that perfectly well. Why not have it follow the old CRP ROW from Bayshore to Bells Corners and through to Bridalwood (and eventually on to Stittsville). Why isn't this route being considered? Likely because it serves the public, who doesn't hire lobbyists, not retailers who do.

Here is an old picture of a CPR freight train traveling under CN's Beachburg subdivision in Bells Corners:

Original source: Canada Science and Technology Museum collection

Using Google, you can see where they have back filled under the overpass here. As you can see the right of way still exists.

roger1818 · #72 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 8:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

To me 7 stations in the 7km in Kanata is ridiculous and overkill. If this is supposed to be a FAST TRUNK route, then I say Kanata should only have 3 stations; Eagleson, Kanata Centrum & Tanger/CTC.

If the SENS move to Lebreton, why the hell would we build a line and a station at the CTC? To serve the car dealership? Like what the hell...

We should be encouraging buses in the area to terminate/drop people off at the three main stations in Kanata and then boom, away they go to the City.

The savings on 4 stations could be reinvested in a third line or whatever the next project may be.

I totally agree! My only guess is every mall in Kanata wants its own LRT station and is paying big bucks to make sure it happens. Unfortunately that money isn't going to the project fund.

passwordisnt123 · #73 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 8:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The reason is because that part of Kanata doesn't exist yet.. it's all empty fields. Very easy to plan an ideal corridor through a place that has yet to be built.

In Gloucester you'd have to insert a line through an already existing area.. must harder.

Or maybe they can just add a stop along the already existing alignment fronting onto Sutton Place here: https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.43869...22,17.5z?hl=en

No need to insert a line through an already existing area. No need to change the alignment. No need to do anything different except to add stop at the single most dense and best opportunity in the entire East End neighbourhood of the whole city.

Uhuniau · #74 Posted **Sep 1, 2016, 10:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Or maybe they can just add a stop along the already existing alignment fronting onto Sutton Place here: https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.43869...22,17.5z?hl=en

No need to insert a line through an already existing area. No need to change the alignment. No need to do anything different except to add stop at the single most dense and best opportunity in the entire East End neighbourhood of the whole city.

But that would be "only" 1.2 km from Blair Station, and you know how they are about "optimizing" transit stops...

lrt's friend · #75 Posted **Sep 2, 2016, 1:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

I totally agree! My only guess is every mall in Kanata wants its own LRT station and is paying big bucks to make sure it happens. Unfortunately that money isn't going to the project fund.

Now are you saying that big business is paying to locate stations to support their businesses over taxpayers? That supports the plan to not build a station at Jasmine Crescent. What is there? High rises and other fairly high density housing, two high schools, an arena, senior's centre, public swimming pool, and public library. But no businesses. Surprise, surprise.

With the Trillium Line, we just build the stations in the bush. That is equally good service to the taxpayer. Let them eat cake.

SF Thomas · #76 Posted **Sep 2, 2016, 1:05 AM**

I agree the number of western Kanata stations seems excessive. Since the Kanata LRT is 10-15 years down the road though I wouldn't be surprised if this was more for looking at if those station locations were feasible and half of them get axed in the long run. Particularly once the actual price tag comes up.

From the past experience with the western Confed and Orleans extension we already know it isn't uncommon for the number of stations to be scaled down or for station locations to get changed while things are in the planning stages.

lrt's friend · #77 Posted **Sep 2, 2016, 1:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

As someone who lives in Beacon Hill near Jasmine, I can only grumble when planned extensions to further out communities get so many stations per km...

I have spoken about this since I joined this forum in 2006 and it became apparent that our priority was to convert the Transitways. As soon as we embarked on this, we would have to build out to the suburbs as a priority. The Transitways were built for commuters, so conversion was going to lead to commuter-centric rail. This was inevitable. You cannot close the Transitways without a total rebuild.

Other ideas would have better emphasized areas within the Greenbelt but the Transitway conversion monster forced us to trash all or almost all the ideas within Greenbelt plans.

lrt's friend · #78 Posted **Sep 2, 2016, 1:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

To me 7 stations in the 7km in Kanata is ridiculous and overkill. If this is supposed to be a FAST TRUNK route, then I say Kanata should only have 3 stations; Eagleson, Kanata Centrum & Tanger/CTC.

If the SENS move to Lebreton, why the hell would we build a line and a station at the CTC? To serve the car dealership? Like what the hell...

We should be encouraging buses in the area to terminate/drop people off at the three main stations in Kanata and then boom, away they go to the City.

The savings on 4 stations could be reinvested in a third line or whatever the next project may be.

Yep, the hourly bus that doesn't run after 7 pm and not on Sundays at all. This will attract passengers in droves especially in off-peak hours. The very expensive trains will be overcrowded, for sure.

Buggys · #79 Posted **Sep 2, 2016, 3:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

It's nice to see a ridiculous number of stations out towards the western terminus of the line. Also nice to see the city going out of their way to leave the median of the Queensway to improve connectivity and service for Kanata residents. Darn. That's some nice quality service for those fortunate people.

Meanwhile, all those people in eastern Gloucester and Jasmine Park especially (people who actually might use public transit because they're less well-to-do) get to watch as the Confederation Line blows right past their already high-density and fully developed neighbourhoods so that Orleans commuters only have to endure one stop for the 7.5km stretch between Jeanne D'Arc and Blair.

Yup. Seems like a fair and equitable distribution of resources to me.

You can also voice this concern to the Stage 2 LRT planning folks: http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public...ctivity-public

Uhuniau · #80 Posted **Sep 2, 2016, 3:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SF Thomas

I agree the number of western Kanata stations seems excessive. Since the Kanata LRT is 10-15 years down the road though I wouldn't be surprised if this was more for looking at if those station locations were feasible and half of them get axed in the long run. Particularly once the actual price tag comes up.

From the past experience with the western Confed and Orleans extension we already know it isn't uncommon for the number of stations to be scaled down or for station locations to get changed while things are in the planning stages.

Especially if we keep overbuilding stations with vanity "landmark" roves and such, for no good reason.